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Aviv found--When will you celebrate Pesach?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by By Grace, Mar 9, 2005.

When will you celebrate Pesach?

  1. March 26, 2005, as determined by the discovery of aviv in Jerusalem

  2. April 24, 2005, according to the pre-calculated Jewish calendar

  3. Neither (Please explain)

  4. Not sure

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. By Grace

    By Grace Flying HIGH on eagles' WINGS

    +42
    Messianic
    Married
    Dates of Biblical Holidays 2005-2006

    1st Unleavened Bread

    Saturday March 26, 2005

    א' חג המצות

    7th Unleavened Bread

    Friday April 1, 2005

    ז' חג המצות

    Shavuot

    May 15, 2005

    חג השבועות




    All of the Biblical Holy Days begin at sunset on the day before the date listed and continue for 24 hours until sunset on the following day. For example, 1st Unleavened Bread is on Saturday March 26, 2004 meaning that work is forbidden from sunset on March 25 until sunset on March 26.
     
  2. Sephania

    Sephania Well-Known Member

    +369
    Interesting:
    Interesting thing I found out about the Kidron Valley, it used to be known as the Kings vale, which was the place that Melchesedek met Abraham, also called the Valley of Shaveh.
     
  3. Sephania

    Sephania Well-Known Member

    +369
    So, first Seder would be on the ever 24th ( march) and that Shabbat Erev 25th would be Unleavened , so a Holy, HOLY day! :)
     
  4. By Grace

    By Grace Flying HIGH on eagles' WINGS

    +42
    Messianic
    Married
    Is FF always on Aviv 16?

     
  5. By Grace

    By Grace Flying HIGH on eagles' WINGS

    +42
    Messianic
    Married
    Exactly! :thumbsup:
     
  6. ShirChadash

    ShirChadash A Jew, by the grace and love of God. Come home!

    +573
    Judaism
    Married
    Uh, no, I am not confusing Shavuot -- feast of weeks, Pentecost -- with First Fruits. How could Shavuot be the first "sunday" after Pesach? :scratch:

    Here's an interesting link that might explain where I was coming from.

    http://www.therefinersfire.org/first_fruits.htm

     
  7. By Grace

    By Grace Flying HIGH on eagles' WINGS

    +42
    Messianic
    Married
    And this, from Gordon's site:

     
  8. Sephania

    Sephania Well-Known Member

    +369
  9. Sephania

    Sephania Well-Known Member

    +369
    ~ The Wave Sheaf Offering ~
    God commanded that a curiously unique ceremony be performed during the Days of Unleavened Bread once the children of Israel had come into the promised land. Many Believers have ignored this ceremony because it does not fall on a Holyday, and is seldom discussed in sermons. The ceremony is called the Wave Sheaf Offering. In is also know as Yom HaBikkurim (Yohm Hah-Beek-kooreem = Day of Firstfruits) and it begins a fifty day period called Sfiraf HaOmer (Sfee-raht Hah-Oh-mehr’ = The Counting of the Sheaf).

    Just what constituted the Wave Sheaf Offering? A casual reading of the scriptures would seem to indicate that each farmer would cut a sheaf of grain, take it to the Temple, and the Priest would somehow wave it around in a ceremony, but that was not the way it was practiced. This is a prime example of where the Scriptures do not tell the entire story, rather only the essence of the ceremony is given as a directive of when and how it was to be done. The details of the manner in which this ceremony was to be performed must have been handed down through the oral traditions of the Priesthood from generation to generation.

    ZEMIRAH, this may help answer your question:

    * Disputed Day *
    First of all, there was an argument about when this ceremony was to be performed. The Saducees (the Priests and Levites) said that the Wave Sheaf ceremony was to be performed on the day following the weekly Sabbath that fell during the Days of Unleavened Bread. This would always place the Wave Sheaf Offering on the first day of the week. Meanwhile, the Pharisees said that the Wave Sheaf ceremony was to be performed on the day following the First Day of Unleavened Bread. They considered that day to be the Sabbath which was intended in verse 11. This would mean the Wave Sheaf Offering would always be held on Nisan 16.
    The controversy would not have been too serious except for the fact that the Wave Sheaf Offering becomes the basis for determining when the next Festival, Shavu’ot (Shaw-voo’oat’ = Pentecost) would fall. If one counts from the day following the weekly Sabbath, it causes Shavu’ot to always fall on a Sunday, fifty days later. If one counts from Nisan 16 it causes Shavu’ot to always fall on Sivan 6. An alternate method for counting from the day after the Sabbath brings some to a Pentecost celebration on a Monday.
    This is another of those scriptural stalemates. It is the firmly held opinion of this writer that the Saducees were correct in this case. They were the Priests and Levites and they knew what the ancient practice had been since at least the time of Ezra. More importantly, the Hebrew word Shabbat (Shah-baht) is only used for the weekly Sabbath. Another word, Shabbaton (Shah-bah-tone’) is used in the three cases where Holydays are referred to by the English word Sabbath.* All of the other references to Holydays are indicated by the Hebrew words: Chag (khag = festival), chagag (khah-gahg = to dance), moed (mow-ehd = appointed time) or Kodesh Mikrah (Koh-dehsh Meek-rah = Holy Convocation). [ *It is interesting to note that the Greek New Testament scriptures always use the transliterated Hebrew word Shabbaton,” which means a high day or Holyday. In turn, this Greek word has always been translated into English as ‘Sabbath.’ This makes for a less precise rendering of the word Sabbath’ in the Greek New Testament as it can mean either the weekly Sabbath or a Holyday. One must make the determination by the context of the passage in question. However, in Hebrew the word Shabbat always means the weekly Sabbath, while the word Shabbaton always means a high Holyday.]

    A further point involves the need to count the days to arrive at Shavu’ot. If God had intended Shavu’ot to always fall on Sivan 6 it seems that He would have named the day (Sivan 6) as He did with all of the ocher Holydays. By using the weekly Sabbath as the reference point it becomes absolutely necessary to count the days, since Shavu’ot can fall anytime from Sivan 6 to Sivan 12, but always on a Sunday.

    http://www.geocities.com/hebrew_roots/html/hr-1-5-05.html
     
  10. Henaynei

    Henaynei Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Echud! Al pi Adonai...

    +1,658
    United States
    Widowed
    US-Constitution
    in our home we start the omer count on the day after the first 7th day Sabbath after the Seder...;) in this we conflict with our local communities
     
  11. iitb

    iitb a.k.a. insaneinthebrain

    +7
    Judaism
    Here's a question for you: What would you do if you wanted to observe on March 26th, yet the community you belong to is celebrating in April?
     
  12. Sephania

    Sephania Well-Known Member

    +369
    As I have that dilemma as well. I was just asked to a second night seder, in April. I said I would be happy to attend. I will treat it as the second pasach and glean from it what I can. But I will not take part in the festivities for Purim which will fall on the first of unleavened bread, that would be a conflict. I will most likely stay at home and feed on the word of the Lamb late into the night of the 25th.

    What I am contemplating now is should I or shouldnt' I invite others to the Seder I am having. I have decided to follow the requirements in the Bible, and not the traditional seder plate. :)
     
  13. Henaynei

    Henaynei Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Echud! Al pi Adonai...

    +1,658
    United States
    Widowed
    US-Constitution
    I understand, and even agree with so much of the desire to make sure we are not violating scripture!!!

    But I can't help wondering, if we are part of the Jewish community, why must we through out the traditions and customs that are an intrigal part of that community (such as the Seder service/plate)? What purpose does this serve? Even Yeshua drank wine at the Seder, very likely had the Four Cups. :)
     
  14. Sephania

    Sephania Well-Known Member

    +369
    Well, the only thing I was referring to for the time being is the egg, I have never liked the egg on there and I really dont' believe Yeshua had an egg to represent resurrection/new life. And it being burnt? I know it is suppopsed to possibly represent the peace offering for the second day's offering in the temple, but it has too much association with another holiday that I woulkd rather not mention ;)

    But other than that, and also missing the shank bone for I know who my Passover lamb is :clap: I would pretty much be in keeping with the other elements. :)
     
  15. Jasmine-FL

    Jasmine-FL Member

    158
    +16
    Messianic
  16. Sephania

    Sephania Well-Known Member

    +369
    Well since I have now , I believe the correct understanding of Pasach and unleavened bread, looking at the poll I don't think that is correct. If Rosh Chodesh was on the March 11-12 then Pasache starts ( Nisan 14 ) on sundown on the 24th of march. The pasache is right before sundown on the 25th. And unleaveded bread begins the same time, at sundown on the 25th.
     
  17. By Grace

    By Grace Flying HIGH on eagles' WINGS

    +42
    Messianic
    Married
    Isn't that what the dates are in Post 61, from the Karaite website? The Pesach meal would start after sundown on the 25th? (Remember, I calculated wrong for the poll, as Torah1st pointed out.)
     
  18. Shimshon

    Shimshon Well-Known Member

    +769
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    Zayit your very astute. Yes the poll is in error as Pesach is not March 26th but Chag HaMatzot is. Pesach IS the 25th Aviv 14
     
  19. Sephania

    Sephania Well-Known Member

    +369
    I'm Sorry Jill, I forgot about that, I didn't have a chance to read through the whole thread again. I have been invited to a seder on the 25th and wanted to make sure that was the right day so I was in here double checking. :doh:
     
  20. Sephania

    Sephania Well-Known Member

    +369
    After sundown? Ok, I am confused again, I thought Nisan 14 begins tomorrow at sundown which is thursday 6pish. and lasts until same time + minutes or two on Friday at sundown. Now if I am understanding when the lamb was to be had it would be right before sundown on the 14th on the "crest" of going into the 15th which is the start of Chag haMotzie. The same day as the eating of the lamb and the motzah was the day they were brought out of Egypt. You start eating the unleavened bread on the 14th , not 15th to the 21st.

    Now do I have that right , or do I need to look for a straightjacket??? :eek::p
     
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