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Featured Ashes or Everlasting Fire

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by PROPHECYKID, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    You can quote as much as you like. I'm sticking with the faith that:
    1. The Lord our God the Lord is one. His attributes are unified. So His grace and mercy are not opposed to His justice and wrath.
    2. God is spirit. Our war is spiritual. Our enemies are spiritual. Sin is an enemy. The last enemy is death.
    3. Jesus' name is He Saves. The name of the game.
    4. Jesus is the alpha and omega. His Salvation is the plan and its fulfilment.
    5. God will be all in all. Love never fails. He will restore creation. And the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ shall be with all. Amen.
    So how can I believe God will fail? That's essentially what I hear you guys saying, just doubt and carnality. I'm sorry if you relate to God more as an angry volcano deity than a perfectly loving father.
     
  2. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    The living God, El Elyon, is Holy. He is perfectly Holy and perfectly just. So is His wrath. His wrath is Holy.

    The living God's wrath and His justice is perfect and without "sin".

    There is a REASON that Jesus Himself warned against facing God's wrath, unrepentant.

    That is why we are called to repentance and to be covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.

    Rejecting the grace that is offered to us leaves us to face the wrath and judgement of a Holy God on our own.

    This is written all throughout God's Word.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    agreed

    no such text.

    But we do have this..

    Matt 10:28 28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
     
  4. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Amen.
     
  5. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    So your god destroys a city, then wakes up the dead just to roast them alive for eternity. Ok bonchance.

    That foreign power is a metaphor for sin, the devil's dominion, sorceries of Babylon. God hands Israel over for their deeds, then saves them. That's the pattern. Israel worse than Sodom. Gets saved.
     
  6. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Ok but aren't 2 sparrows sold for a buck?
     
  7. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  8. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  9. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  10. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  11. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  12. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    If you can show me where I have ever quoted a text out-of-context, as I have shown you more than once with 1 Cor 3:9-14, please do so but if/since you can't, perhaps you should refrain from snide comments.
     
  13. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    A nice little list of cliches taking bits and pieces of unrelated verses, out-of-context. But what you cannot do is show us one verse where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, speaking says that all mankind, evil and righteous, alike will be saved no matter what.
     
  14. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    No disagreement but for those who wish to argue that "aionios" does not mean eternal, everlasting etc.
    In twenty one [21] of the following verses αἰών/aion and αἰώνιος/aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by comparison or contrast with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
    List of verses cited:1 Timothy 1:17, 2 Corinthians 4:17-18, 2 Corinthians 5:1, Hebrews 7:24, 1 Peter 1:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, Galatians 6:8, John 6:58, John 10:20, 1 John 2:17, 1 Peter 5:10, Romans 2:7, Luke 1:33,Revelation 14:11, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 8:51, Ephesians 3:21, Romans 1:20, Romans 5:21, Romans 16:26.
    …..In the NT “aion/aionios” sometimes refer to things which are not eternal but neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, as in the following verses.
    [1]Romans 1:20
    (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    [2]Romans 16:26
    (26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
    In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
    [3]Luke 1:33
    (33) And he shall reign [βασιλευσει][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [βασιλειας][Nn] there shall be no end.[τελος/τελος]
    In this verse the reign βασιλευσει/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom βασιλειας/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.
    [4]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
    (17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] weight of glory;
    (18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[πρόσκαιρος/proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios]
    In this passage “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [5]2 Corinthians 5:1
    (1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] in the heavens.
    In this verse “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house only lasts a little longer which will also be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [6]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [αἰών/aion] he has an unchangeable [ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos] priesthood.
    In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [7]1 Peter 1:23
    (23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
    1 Peter 1:25
    (25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
    In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “imperishable.” The same writer, Petr, in the same writing 1 Peter in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”
    [8]1 Timothy 6:16
    (16) Who only hath immortality, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios]
    In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
    [9]Galatians 6:8
    (8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [φθορά/fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [αἰώνιος/aionios]
    In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
    [10]John 6:58
    (58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
    In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [11]John 10:28
    (28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
    In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
    [12]1 John 2:17
    (17) The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. [αἰών/aion]
    In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “pass away,” “lives aionios” cannot mean a finite period, A “finite period” is not opposite of “pass away.” Thus “lives aionios” by definition here means “lives eternally.”
    [13]1 Peter 5:10
    (10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [ολιγον/oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
    In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “little while” Does Jesus give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die? Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
    [14]Romans 2:7
    (7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [ἀφθαρσία/apftharsia] he will give eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.
    In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
    [15]1 Timothy 1:17.
    (17) Now unto the King eternal, [αἰών/aion] immortal, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [αἰών/aion] and ever [αἰώνιος/aionios]. Amen.
    In this verse “aion” is paired with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and be immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [16]Revelation 14:11
    (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[εις αιωνας αιωνων/eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
    In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paired with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
    [17]John 3:15
    (15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
    In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.
    [18]John 3:16
    (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
    In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
    [19]John 5:24
    (24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
    In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
    [20]Romans 5:21
    (21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [αἰώνιος] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
    In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death, “eternal life” is. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
    [21]Ephesians 3:21
    (21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [του αιωνος/tou aionios] and ever! [των αιωνων/ton aionion] Amen.
    In this verse “tou aionios ton aionion” is paired with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
    [22]John 8:51
    (51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiona] see death."
    According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent "The double negative “ ου μη/ou mé” signifies in nowise, by no means." Unless Jesus is saying whoever obeys Him will die, i.e. see death, unto the age, by definition aion means eternity.
     
  15. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Agreed. Universalism teaches this.
     
  16. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    What God created He certainly is able to destroy. Can you show us one verse where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, is speaking which states that God has/will destroy even one soul in hell?
     
  17. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one (Rom 3:10 quoting Psalms)

    Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. (Mk 11:24)

    Join me in praying for the salvation of all mankind.
     
  18. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Praying that God's perfect and sovereign will is done, in the name of Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, the God of the living. Father may it be so, in the name of Jesus, amen.

    This comes to mind:

    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." ~Pr 9:10

    "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." ~Titus 1:13-14


    Let it rain.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  19. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Perhaps you can tell me how this responds to my post, which you quoted and I quoted above in this post?
    In the absence of a definitive response I can only surmise that you have no credible reply except dodging and evading.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Matt 10:28 28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    The idea of "able but of course would never do such a thing" has to be 'inserted' into that "fear Him who is able to ...".

    The Bible never uses the term "who is able to" to mean "but of course would never do it" when it comes to God

    for example Jude 1:24
    24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,

    Acts 20:32
    “So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
     
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