Ashes or Everlasting Fire

[brinny]

John 5, judgment, condemnation, damnation, all meaning the same thing, vs the resurrection of life.

ESV
27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Geneva Bible 1599
27 And hath given him power also to execute judgment, in that he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour shall come, in the which all that are in the graves, shall hear his voice.
29 And they shall come forth, that have done good, unto the resurrection of life: but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of condemnation.

John 5:27-29 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
27 and hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
28 Marvel not at this; for the hour is coming in which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice
29 and shall come forth — they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Amen. Jesus emphasized this repeatedly throughout His Word.

 

[sdowney717]

Amen. Jesus emphasized this repeatedly throughout His Word.

Its a good thing to believe in Christ, to look to Him for your salvation, otherwise there is no savior from the wrath of God to come. No one can save himself, everyone needs an intercessor recognized by the higher power, in this case Christ is our intercessor with God and prays for us. And God always gives Christ what He asks for as God always hears Him.

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

 

[sdowney717]

John 17
Jesus Prays for His Disciples
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.

11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.

We are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Every eye will see Him and he will gather up His elect, and all the world will witness His returning to rule and reign with His saints.

Jude 14-15 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Matthew 24:31
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (the four winds are the 4 corners of the earth and from all of heaven, all will join with Him at the resurrection of the just)

 

[brinny]

Its a good thing to believe in Christ, to look to Him for your salvation, otherwise there is no savior from the wrath of God to come. No one can save himself, everyone needs an intercessor recognized by the higher power, in this case Christ is our intercessor with God and prays for us. And God always gives Christ what He asks for as God always hears Him.

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Yes, and Jesus will say to some "Depart from me. I never knew you."

I am reminded of what is written in Revelation about not adding to or taking away what is written in His Word.

 

[brinny]

Definitely not!

The polus made sinners= the polus made righteous.

This makes no sense.

 

[FineLinen]

This makes no sense.

Dear St. Paul: please be advised Brinny posts you make no sense.

The many made sinners in Adam 1= the many made righteous in the Last Adam

Many= many= many.

Polus= polus= polus.

 

[brinny]

Dear St. Paul: please be advised Brinny posts you make no sense.

The many made sinners in Adam 1= the many made righteous in the Last Adam

Many= many= many.

Polus= polus= polus.

Did you mis-quote me and/or tamper with my post that you quoted?

This one below:

brinny said: ↑
This mak = mantes no sense.

This below is what i posted. You changed it:

brinny said: ↑
This makes no sense.

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<SD>John 17
Jesus Prays for His Disciples
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
We are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Every eye will see Him and he will gather up His elect, and all the world will witness His returning to rule and reign with His saints.
Jude 14-15 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
Matthew 24:31
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (the four winds are the 4 corners of the earth and from all of heaven, all will join with Him at the resurrection of the just)<SD>

end

Expressio Unius Est Exclusio Alterius, the expression of one thing is the exclusion of the other.
Jesus said "I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.""His angels ...will gather together His elect."
Jesus has identified a specific group, those who God gave to Jesus, the elect. That necessarily excludes those who were not given to Jesus, who are not the elect.
If there was/will not be any difference I think Jesus would have said "I pray for the world<period> His angels will gather all mankind."

​

 

[FineLinen]

Did you mis-quote me and/or tamper with my post that you quoted?

This one below:

Dear Brinny: I would never attempt to tamper with the quality or substance of your posts.

They stand for us to consider for a moment.

 

[brinny]

Dear Brinny: I would never attempt to tamper with the quality or substance of your posts.

They stand for us to consider for a moment.

It is against TOS to tamper with someone's post and/or quote.

 

[sdowney717]

<SD>John 17
Jesus Prays for His Disciples
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
We are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Every eye will see Him and he will gather up His elect, and all the world will witness His returning to rule and reign with His saints.
Jude 14-15 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
Matthew 24:31
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (the four winds are the 4 corners of the earth and from all of heaven, all will join with Him at the resurrection of the just)<SD>
Expressio Unius Est Exclusio Alterius, the expression of one thing is the exclusion of the other.
Jesus said "I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.""His angels ...will gather together His elect."
Jesus has identified a specific group, those who God gave Jesus, the elect. That necessarily excludes those who were not given to Jesus, who are not the elect.
If there was/will not be any difference I think Jesus would have said "I pray for the world<period> His angels will gather all mankind."

​

The elect cry out to Him and He saves them. Those of the world do not cry out to Him to be saved.
They are elect as they are chosen of God, He knew them and chose them as His own from before the foundation of the world.

Luke 18:6-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said.
7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them?
8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

It is for the elect that Paul labors so they are saved, Paul knows only the elect of God will believe the message of the gospel, as does Peter, as they are the greatly beloved of God.

2 Timothy 2:10, Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

If it is for some to obtain salvation, then some do not obtain salvation, only the elect will be saved, and the rest remain blinded to the gospel, just as the sower parable shows, the seed falls on some that bear no fruit, but when it falls on the good soil, that shows the regenerated heart is the one that bears the good fruit as it believes the message and bears a fruitful crop, none of the others where the soil was bad bore the good fruit to God. And unless you bear good fruit to God, you can not be saved, Those who bear good fruit shows God is at work in them, their deeds are wrought in God. John 3:20-21.

Romans 11
5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Still yanking this verse out-of-context as a "proof text."

No just an emphatic punctuation text.

Note it is NOT the man who is burned in the fire but the works.

Good, so the fire is able to separate the man from his works. Why then can't it separate S&G from their sin?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Der Alte]

No just an emphatic punctuation text.

Wrong! As I showed by quoting the verse in context which you evidently have ignored

Good, so the fire is able to separate the man from his works. Why then can't it separate S&G from their sin?

I don't know what you mean by S&G. If you are referring to those who die in their sins, God can do whatever it is you are referring to. But I do not know of any scripture which states that God will save all mankind no matter what.
I know that Jesus never taught that.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Wrong! As I showed by quoting the verse in context which you evidently have ignored

You're not permitting me to use that verse for effect? Much obliged.

I don't know what you mean by S&G.

Sodom and Gomorrah

I know that Jesus never taught that.

Jesus taught that we must be right with God before we can enter the Kingdom. Only God can set us right, by cleansing us of our sin.

If Jesus came to save the world, he is the beginning and end, and ultimately God will be all in all, why lack faith? Take heart, with God nothing is impossible.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I don't know what you mean by S&G.

Perhaps you'll permit me to illustrate with song? Ahem..Check 1 tsssuu...and a 1 2 3 4...

Here's a song, 'bout Gomorrah n Sodom
They were down, ooh they hit rock bottom.
It's a hope, for Sodom n Gomorrah
Troubled past, but brighter tomorrah

And in the day, the judgment day
Fortunes restored, her children pray
'Thank God we're not like Capernaum
They really are a crying sha(u)me'

O their pride still doth bring them ire
But saved they'll be, yet as through fire
And t'will emerge, reverently
To the angels' choir, triumphantly...oohhhh (wait for it)....

[Insert 64 bar Shrewd lead break]

Praise the Lord, 'bout Gomorrah n Sodom
Their smoke rose up, and lost in olam.
But it's assured, for Sodom n Gomorrah
God hath made a new tomorrah.

He hath made (drum roll) a new (cymbals) to.....morr......rraaaaaaahhhhh! (chkachkah!)

 

[brinny]

Perhaps you'll permit me to illustrate with song? Ahem..Check 1 tsssuu...and a 1 2 3 4...

Here's a song, 'bout Gomorrah n Sodom
They were down, ooh they hit rock bottom.
It's a hope, for Sodom n Gomorrah
Troubled past, but brighter tomorrah

And in the day, the judgment day
Fortunes restored, her children pray
'Thank God we're not like Capernaum
They really are a crying sha(u)me'

O their pride still doth bring them ire
But saved they'll be, yet as through fire
And t'will emerge, reverently
To the angels' choir, triumphantly...oohhhh (wait for it)....

[Insert 64 bar Shrewd lead break]

Praise the Lord, 'bout Gomorrah n Sodom
Their smoke rose up, and lost in olam.
But it's assured, for Sodom n Gomorrah
God hath made a new tomorrah.

He hath made (drum roll) a new (cymbals) to.....morr......rraaaaaaahhhhh! (chkachkah!)

Where is that written in God's Word, that Sodom and Gomorrah are "saved".

Who or what "saved" them?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Where is that written in God's Word, that Sodom and Gomorrah are "saved".

Who or what "saved" them?

Gee tough crowd:

“I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in their midst, (Ez 16:53)

 

[brinny]

Gee tough crowd:

“I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in their midst, (Ez 16:53)

Why did God send His only begotten son to die on the cross?