Ashes or Everlasting Fire

[FineLinen]

The fire =torment time=trouble=punishment lasts as long as God is angry.
The wicked that go to the lake of fire remain as carcasses -not ashes.
Psalms tells that a pit will be digged for the wicked.
Isaiah 66 ends with showing the lake of fire existing on the new earth.

former things passed away -pain and such - is only as to the saints -from their eyes -
their - no more sorrow

Dear Vin: Nonsense! The Lake of Theion & theioo results in change and transformation by Theos, the foundation. And yes, the Lake, & our God the consuming Fire has transforming qualities.

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Vin: You evidently do not know that the God of unspeakable glory specializes in ashes. He kills and He makes alive. Furthermore>>>>

We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.

Your question= Do you really think for a mere second the Glorious One of unlimited has the slightest problem with dust and ashes?

 

[brinny]

So I was listening to a sermon and the preachers used these 2 verses back to back to point out what seems like a total conflict.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Both of these verses both say that Sodom and Gomorrha is an example of what will happen to those who are lost. But Jude says they suffered eternal fire and Peter says they were turned into ashes and ashes always come in the aftermath of the fire when there is nothing else left to burn. So how do you guys reconcile these 2 verses and how does it impact your view on the destruction of the wicked.

In this life they were turned to cinder.

Eternally they will be burning without quenching, in the lake of fire, that never extinguishes.

 

[brinny]

Dear Vin: You evidently do not know that the God of unspeakable glory specializes in ashes. He kills and He makes alive. Furthermore>>>>

We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.

Your question= Do you really think for a mere second the Glorious One of unlimited has the slightest problem with dust and ashes?

Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God is the ONLY "Door" to God's grace, His mercy, His forgiveness, and escape from the eternal fire that is never extinguished.

God doesn't disregard the sacrifice of His only begotten Son, and include a "part B" for those who are not covered by Christ's righteousness and say "Ok, I was just kidding. Come on in, whether you rejected my Son or not."

No where in God's Word is this written.

The living God is HOLY. He is perfectly JUST.

It is clearly written in God's Word what the judgement of those rejecting Christ is.

That is why it is written that "now" is the time, the day for salvation.

 

[FineLinen]

Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God is the ONLY "Door" to God's grace, His mercy, His forgiveness, and escape from the eternal fire that is never extinguished.

God doesn't disregard the sacrifice of His only begotten Son, and include a "part B" for those who are not covered by Christ's righteousness and say "Ok, I was just kidding. Come on in, whether you rejected my Son or not."

No where in God's Word is this written.

The living God is HOLY. He is perfectly JUST.

It is clearly written in God's Word what the judgement of those rejecting Christ is.

Dear Little Engine: It is clearly written that the all originates in our God, and the all consummates in our God. Yes Brinny, the ta panta! The whole enchilada.

From Him the all, thru Him the all, in Him the all

 

[brinny]

Dear Little Engine: It is clearly written that the all originates in our God, and the all consummates in our God. Yes Brinny, the ta panta! The whole enchilada.

From Him the all, thru Him the all, in Him the all

What verse is that?

 

[FineLinen]

In this life they were turned to cinder.

Eternally they will be burning without quenching, in the lake of fire, that never extinguishes.

Nonsense!

The Lake, & our God the consuming Fire/Pur are one and the same. Welcome Home!

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
In this life they were turned to cinder.

Eternally they will be burning without quenching, in the lake of fire, that never extinguishes.

Nonsense!

The Lake, & our God the consuming Fire/Pur are one and the same. Welcome Home!

It is written in God's Word.

That is why we are warned about the Judgement and to be covered by Christ's righteousness.

Otherwise, why did the only begotten Son of the living God shed His blood and die on the cross? Why was that necessary?

 

[FineLinen]

What verse is that?

Dear Brinny: For a person who knows what clearly means, you should clearly know the passage quoted.

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

 

[brinny]

Dear Brinny: For a person who knows what clearly means, you should clearly know the passage quoted.

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Are you saying that this verse below is Romans 11:36?:

From Him the all, thru Him the all, in Him the all

Was it necessary for Jesus the Christ to die on the cross?

 

[FineLinen]

Why did the only begotten Son of the living God shed His blood and die on the cross? Why was that necessary?

You must attempt to "clearly" grasp the scope of ta panta. When you begin to allow that fact to break upon you, you shall clearly be grasping your answer.

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension of the heavens, the earth & the underworld in spontaneous worship!

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
Why did the only begotten Son of the living God shed His blood and die on the cross? Why was that necessary?

You must attempt to "clearly" grasp the scope of ta panta. When you begin to allow that fact to break upon you, you shall clearly be grasping your answer.

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension of the heavens, the earth & the underworld in spontaneous worship!

What has your response got to do with my question?

Was a Savior necessary?

 

[FineLinen]

What has your response got to do with my question?

Was a Savior necessary?

Dear Brinny: You "clearly" have a comprehension problem. Fortunately I am gradually learning patience in His School of unlimited.

Was a Saviour necessary?

In Adam 1, the whole mass were "made sinners">>>>

In the Last Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ, the whole mass are "made righteous".

The polus/many made sinners= the polus/many made righteous.

A perfect God equation!

Polus = polus = polus =polus

 

[brinny]

Dear Brinny: You "clearly" have a comprehension problem. Fortunately I am gradually learning patience in His School of unlimited.

Was a Saviour necessary?

In Adam 1, the whole mass were "made sinners">>>>

In the Last Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ, the whole mass are "made righteous".

The polus/many made sinners= the polus/many made righteous.

A perfect God equation!

Polus = polus = polus =polus

It's a clear and simple question.

Did the living God, El Elyon deem it necessary to send His only begotten Son into the world as Savior, as it is written in John 3:16?

What you posted above does not answer the question.

What you are posting brings to mind "Universalism".

 

[Der Alte]

...
Saved, yet as through fire. Now that's the good news.

Still yanking this verse out-of-context as a "proof text."

1 Corinthians 3:9-17
(9) For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
(10) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
(11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
(12) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
(13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
(14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
(15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
(17) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​

In this passage Paul is addressing “Laborers together with God,”God’s husbandry,””God’s building” vs. 9, those who build on the foundation of Jesus Christ, vs. 10, not all mankind.
“Every man’s work,” vs. 13, is not all mankind but those who have built on the foundation of Jesus Christ, vs. 10.
In vs. 10 Paul warns them to be careful how they build on that foundation.
Christians are saved by grace not works. The mundane good works that unsaved people might do, does not qualify them for salvation.
Note it is NOT the man who is burned in the fire but the works.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

Also 2 Timothy 1:9, 2 Timothy 3:5
This out-of-context proof text, vs. 15, does not guarantee unrighteous people salvation.
Note vs. 17 says whoever defiles the temple of God will be destroyed, not automatically saved by or in spite of their mundane works.

 

[sdowney717]

It's a clear and simple question.

Did the living God, El Elyon deem it necessary to send His only begotten Son into the world as Savior, as it is written in John 3:16?

What you posted above does not answer the question.

What you are posting brings to mind "Universalism".

Yes, universal salvation, definitely not scriptural.
Lake of Fire is not a purifying place, to bring us to God, it is a place of destruction of the wicked.

 

[brinny]

Yes, universal salvation, definitely not scriptural.
Lake of Fire is not a purifying place, to bring us to God, it is a place of destruction of the wicked.

Indeed it is.

God's Word is crystal clear on this.

We are purified through the blood of Jesus Christ only.

The "lake of fire" isn't our "Savior".

Only Jesus Christ is.

 

[sdowney717]

Indeed it is.

God's Word is crystal clear on this.

We are purified through the blood of Jesus Christ only.

The "lake of fire" isn't our "Savior".

Only Jesus Christ is.

Thats right, no second chance after death in purgatory to be saved.
Hebrews 9
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

The word judgement is in regards to eternal judgement is also meaning condemnation, Only in this life if you believe have you passed from death into life and will not come into condemnation (judgement).

 

[brinny]

Thats right, no second chance after death in purgatory to be saved.
Hebrews 9
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

The word judgement is in regards to eternal judgement is also meaning condemnation, Only in this life if you believe have you passed from death into life and will not come into condemnation (judgement).

Amen.

The Bible is clear on this. That is why we are to adhere to His Word.

 

[sdowney717]

John 5, judgment, condemnation, damnation, all meaning the same thing, vs the resurrection of life.

ESV
27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Geneva Bible 1599
27 And hath given him power also to execute judgment, in that he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour shall come, in the which all that are in the graves, shall hear his voice.
29 And they shall come forth, that have done good, unto the resurrection of life: but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of condemnation.

John 5:27-29 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
27 and hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
28 Marvel not at this; for the hour is coming in which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice
29 and shall come forth — they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.