Ashes or Everlasting Fire

[fwGod]

So I was listening to a sermon and the preachers used these 2 verses back to back to point out what seems like a total conflict.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Both of these verses both say that Sodom and Gomorrha is an example of what will happen to those who are lost. But Jude says they suffered eternal fire and Peter says they were turned into ashes and ashes always come in the aftermath of the fire when there is nothing else left to burn. So how do you guys reconcile these 2 verses and how does it impact your view on the destruction of the wicked.

Neither one contradicts the other. The ashes refer to the natural result of the destruction of the cities.. the eternal fire in hell is of course after natural death.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus Christ will bring the souls -as John saw exist in heaven-with Him at
His return

Well ... "there's your problem" then.

Who does Christ bring with him?? dead bodies?? or those WHO have fallen asleep?

1 Thess 4
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Kaon]

The wicked never become ashes. Isaiah 66 shows - carcasses that will be viewed on
the new earth.
their worm does not die

Bodies will only become ashes for some people - as to the first type of death.

The second death is the lake of fire time and bodies of the wicked get resurrected
and cast into the lake of fire in the future.
These wickeds will be looked upon and abhorred by the just.
This is how God can be keeping sin out of the rest of those on the new earth.

hear, fear, obey

It is the way of the OT. One man sins, then others stone him - the whole bunch of
Israel - and the others will do more that sin.

It's both. The wicked will be ashes and burn forever. Look at how the black hole produces jets of gamma ash thousands of light years "up". Their essence will burn forever while their corrupt core *must* continue burning. It is a mason reference, specifically practices of the foundry. You burn ore until the impurities are gone; the wicked, therefore, will burn forever until they are made "pure". The ash is the impurity - which will continue so as long as one has impurity.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[BobRyan]

Malachi 4:3 3Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act," says the LORD Almighty.

The wicked never become ashes

“You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”


Jude 1
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

NIV 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

Matt 10:28 fear Him who is able to "destroy BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell"

 

[BobRyan]

People have more than bodies.
The inner man - part -is renewed day by day, while the body decays.

God told Moses that He is the God of the living - as to people that their bodies were buried.

Jesus said that the statement to Moses was given while Abraham was dead and that this proves there must be a future resurrection or else God could not have said that about Abraham when speaking to Moses - Matthew 22, for "God is not the God of the dead - but of the living" and only 'future resurrection' solves that dilemma

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Kaon]

This world - is going away, changed in the future.
The heavens will be rolled back as a scroll. We don't know what the future universe
will look like. Bodies will still exist from the resurrected wicked that get cast into
the lake of fire. not ashes

The Bible never refers to the wicked that die the second death as being made into
ashes.

every sabbath - and new moon
they will have their carcasses looked at by the just

the just will be abhorred at this - but have to do it

The sun and the moon will still exist through all of eternity. Other things though, such
as other planets and such may be gone or changed in the new earth time or before that.

6th seal - the stars of heaven - fell
heaven rolled as a scroll
Isaiah 34
day of the LORD

I am saying that they will still exist as well. But, they will also ash and burn forever. As to your allusions, every entity has immortality buried in it from the Most High God. When entities go to the lake of fire, as it were, they will continue to burn forever - perhaps as an example for eternity.

However, the Most High God can destroy anything - including entities He made with immortality shadowed on their essence.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[SkyWriting]

So I was listening to a sermon and the preachers used these 2 verses back to back to point out what seems like a total conflict.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Both of these verses both say that Sodom and Gomorrha is an example of what will happen to those who are lost. But Jude says they suffered eternal fire and Peter says they were turned into ashes and ashes always come in the aftermath of the fire when there is nothing else left to burn. So how do you guys reconcile these 2 verses and how does it impact your view on the destruction of the wicked.

Death without salvation has a number of descriptions. Not a problem.
They only used S&G as an obvious example. All sinners receive the same fate.

 

[BobRyan]

People have more than bodies.
The inner man - part -is renewed day by day, while the body decays.

God told Moses that He is the God of the living - as to people that their bodies were buried.

Jesus said that the statement to Moses was given while Abraham was dead and that this proves there must be a future resurrection or else God could not have said that about Abraham when speaking to Moses - Matthew 22, for "God is not the God of the dead - but of the living" and only 'future resurrection' solves that dilemma

31 But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

He didn't say -I will be the God of Abraham -or of the living.
He said - am -

True. And Jesus said the only way that statement could possibly be true while speaking to Moses at the burning bush - is that there most certainly must be a future resurrection. Because God is the God who regards those things that are not - as though they are. "A father of many nations HAVE I made you" while as yet there were no nations at all from Abraham.

Gen 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Rom 4:17
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Jesus' "proof" of the future resurrection was "irrefutable to Sadducees" who do NOT believe in a future resurrection nor in ghosts. Jesus setup a logical trap for them from which the ONLY logical avenue of escape was -- the future resurrection.

Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together.

"Some" argue that Jesus' proof , Jesus' puzzle for the Sadducees could be solved EITHER by a future resurrection OR by a "living-dead" kind of doctrine. But once you have one solution you delete all the need and motivation for the other.

Either one allows the case for God to say that to Moses at the time when Abraham was dead. And Jesus tells us He is using the "solution" of the future resurrection.

Some seek to delete Jesus's proof of a future resurrection and instead argue for the "living dead" solution which the Sadducees also did not accept.

as in right then Abraham was still alive somewhere

Which would solve the problem without any need at all for a future resurrection.

31 But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm