Ashes or Everlasting Fire

[Der Alte]

Because eternal punishment is not Biblical. It is pagan heresy.

…..Nonsense there is zero evidence that the Biblical belief in eternal punishment was influenced by pagan societies. However, according to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.
…..There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. These other beliefs do not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);​

[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]

(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
=================
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

When Jesus taught e.g.,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12​

…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view in eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He intended to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.”
.....The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only reinforce those beliefs?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

How does me describing your response, rather lack of, "excoriate" you personally?

Forgive me if I wrongly detected a spirit of rancour in your tone.

And no it does NOT mean "to prune."

Means eternally corrected, or possibly lasting punishment. Or referring to the ternal punishment of the devil he mentions in the preceding verse. Or it's classic hyperbole of the 'swallow a camel strain a gnat' variety. It's just insufficient and tenuous (even taken together with the grab-bag of other go-to hell-scriptures) to ground the most terrifying and impacting component of Christian theology.

Which verses are you referring to?

It's plainly Mt 5:12, which refers to salt. As you see with Mt 5:13, it is the salt losing its savour that results in poverty. The salting with fire is good. Divine fire is always purificatory - destroys evil, produces repentance.

As for the other references to Gehenna fire, yes clearly the experience is best avoided, and that can be done by practising the beatitudes and good relationships. But Jesus is essentially saying Gehenna is God's correction and discipline, to set people right. Or are we all damned for once looking lustfully at a woman, or for thinking ill of a brother ('raca')? These are all warnings to disciples, not unbelievers. Plus Jesus reassures them that God's got every hair numbered, meaning that He's not going to destroy them body and soul. That's just not who God is. You've seen the son, so see the father.

Another isolated out-of-context proof text. Let us read further in Rev 22.
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Revelation 22:14-15
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.All this happens after "no more curse."

Yes, obviously saying UNTIL the reprobates overcome the flesh in the lake of fire, they stay outside the City. The lifting of the curse means they can have hope. We as the bride continuously invite and encourage 'Come'. By going to Rev 20-22 you're now deep into universalist territory!

 

[brinny]

Forgive me if I wrongly detected a spirit of rancour in your tone.



Means eternally corrected, or possibly lasting punishment. Or referring to the ternal punishment of the devil he mentions in the preceding verse. Or it's classic hyperbole of the 'swallow a camel strain a gnat' variety. It's just insufficient and tenuous (even taken together with the grab-bag of other go-to hell-scriptures) to ground the most terrifying and impacting component of Christian theology.



It's plainly Mt 5:12, which refers to salt. As you see with Mt 5:13, it is the salt losing its savour that results in poverty. The salting with fire is good. Divine fire is always purificatory - destroys evil, produces repentance.

As for the other references to Gehenna fire, yes clearly the experience is best avoided, and that can be done by practising the beatitudes and good relationships. But Jesus is essentially saying Gehenna is God's correction and discipline, to set people right. Or are we all damned for once looking lustfully at a woman, or for thinking ill of a brother ('raca')? These are all warnings to disciples, not unbelievers. Plus Jesus reassures them that God's got every hair numbered, meaning that He's not going to destroy them body and soul. That's just not who God is. You've seen the son, so see the father.



Yes, obviously saying UNTIL the reprobates overcome the flesh in the lake of fire, they stay outside the City. The lifting of the curse means they can have hope. We as the bride continuously invite and encourage 'Come'. By going to Rev 20-22 you're now deep into universalist territory!

Perhaps this will help:

 

[Hillsage]

The Gnostics call God "evil", calling Him, the Creator, the "Demiurge", a bungling and incompetent fool that creates the world as a spiritual prison.

That's why i was asking for clarification.

Gnosticism is heresy.

No, I'm saying you don't even know the true definition of heresy. According to the church inventing 'eternal hell' 'Martin Luther was a heretic'. Do you agree with that ORTHODOX church on both of their theological views? Or do you also pick and choose? IOW are you a Catholic or a Lutheran? If neither, are they then are they both also heretics like the Gnostics, according to you, but just not for the same reasons?

Oh and Paul was also a confessed heretic;

ACT 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Is that "clarification" enough for you? Now clarify something to me, how did this post of yours refute one thing in my last post? Because I see NADA.

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
The Gnostics call God "evil", calling Him, the Creator, the "Demiurge", a bungling and incompetent fool that creates the world as a spiritual prison.

That's why i was asking for clarification.

Gnosticism is heresy.

No, I'm saying you don't even know the true definition of heresy. According to the church inventing 'eternal hell' 'Martin Luther was a heretic'. Do you agree with that ORTHODOX church on both of their theological views? Or do you also pick and choose? IOW are you a Catholic or a Lutheran? If neither, are they then are they both also heretics like the Gnostics, according to you, but just not for the same reasons?

Oh and Paul was also a confessed heretic;

ACT 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Is that "clarification" enough for you? Now clarify something to me, how did this post of yours refute one thing in my last post? Because I see NADA.

Nonsense. It is written in God's Word, for instance in the New Testament on false teachings and heresy, and what will happen to those who promote false teachings and heresy.

It is written:

"Woe to them.." amongst other things.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

.Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only reinforce those beliefs?

Think you'll find Jews consider Christianity to be a heresy of Judaism.

Largely because Jesus presented us with God as loving Father, he corrected Moses on points which had caused damage to people and relationships (eg inherited sins, misfortunes due to sin, forgiveness of sins).

He's often applying the 'reaping and sowing' principle, eg the 'unforgivable sin', meaning how can you be forgiven as long as you reject the Holy Spirit. This is also the basis of eternal punishment - as long as we reject God's love we'll be tormented by sin. He also 'holds a mirror' up and employs retributive language to show where we're in error, and often this is mistaken as him condemning people.

The letter kills, the spirit gives life. The right context for all Jesus' words is his overall mission of saving the world - to restore sight to the blind, liberate the captives, free the slaves, heal the sick etc. The work of the cross reveals that God's love is steadfast even in the darkest hour and goes the extra mile to overcome man's worst sins. Forgive them!

So why would Jesus 'change his tune' and 'throw the game' by getting petty and vindictive about the blindness and lostness of mankind? He's here to help us all, not condemn us. To eat and drink with sinners. And when the veil has been lifted and the trumpets sound, most unbelievers will come to Christ. The remnant will need extra help, in the form of the lake of fire. It'll burn up everything they cling to as dear, but for their good. We all have 'die-hard' sins to be expiated. And as Rev 22:21 puts it, enfin, The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ shall be upon all. Amen.

 

[brinny]

Think you'll find Jews consider Christianity to be a heresy of Judaism.

Largely because Jesus presented us with God as loving Father, he corrected Moses on points which had caused damage to people and relationships (eg inherited sins, misfortunes due to sin, forgiveness of sins).

He's often applying the 'reaping and sowing' principle, eg the 'unforgivable sin', meaning how can you be forgiven as long as you reject the Holy Spirit. This is also the basis of eternal punishment - as long as we reject God's love we'll be tormented by sin. He also 'holds a mirror' up and employs retributive language to show where we're in error, and often this is mistaken as him condemning people.

The letter kills, the spirit gives life. The right context for all Jesus' words is his overall mission of saving the world - to restore sight to the blind, liberate the captives, free the slaves, heal the sick etc. The work of the cross reveals that God's love is steadfast even in the darkest hour and goes the extra mile to overcome man's worst sins. Forgive them!

So why would Jesus 'change his tune' and 'throw the game' by getting petty and vindictive about the blindness and lostness of mankind? He's here to help us all, not condemn us. To eat and drink with sinners. And when the veil has been lifted and the trumpets sound, most unbelievers will come to Christ. The remnant will need extra help, in the form of the lake of fire. It'll burn up everything they cling to as dear, but for their good. We all have 'die-hard' sins to be expiated. And as Rev 22:21 puts it, enfin, The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ shall be upon all. Amen.

Universalism flies in the face of a holy God, Who is perfectly just. It discounts Him and disrespects Him as the living God.

God's wrath is perfectly just.

Those facing His wrath will see His utter and inexplicable fury and condemnation and sentence, which will cast them into the lake of fire with the devil and his angels, where they will be in this conscious state for eternity.

That is why He warns us in His Word to seek His mercy and forgiveness while there is still time.

Hell SHOULD be terrifying.

All the more reason to seek an escape from it through Jesus Christ, the only "Remedy" from hell.

'Tis best to heed His warning while there is still time to.

On that note, this gives more detail.

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<SM>Think you'll find Jews consider Christianity to be a heresy of Judaism.[Irrelevant. DA]
Largely because Jesus presented us with God as loving Father, he corrected Moses on points which had caused damage to people and relationships (eg inherited sins, misfortunes due to sin, forgiveness of sins).
He's often applying the 'reaping and sowing' principle, eg the 'unforgivable sin', meaning how can you be forgiven as long as you reject the Holy Spirit. [Direct contradiction of scripture. DA]
This is also the basis of eternal punishment - as long as we reject God's love we'll be tormented by sin. He also 'holds a mirror' up and employs retributive language to show where we're in error, and often this is mistaken as him condemning people.[Direct contradiction of scripture. DA]
The letter kills, the spirit gives life. The right context for all Jesus' words is his overall mission of saving the world - to restore sight to the blind, liberate the captives, free the slaves, heal the sick etc. The work of the cross reveals that God's love is steadfast even in the darkest hour and goes the extra mile to overcome man's worst sins. Forgive them!
So why would Jesus 'change his tune' and 'throw the game' by getting petty and vindictive about the blindness and lostness of mankind?
He's here to help us all, not condemn us. To eat and drink with sinners. And when the veil has been lifted and the trumpets sound, most unbelievers will come to Christ. [Direct contradiction of scripture. DA]
The remnant will need extra help, in the form of the lake of fire. It'll burn up everything they cling to as dear, but for their good.[Direct contradiction of scripture. DA]
We all have 'die-hard' sins to be expiated. And as Rev 22:21 puts it, enfin, The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ shall be upon all. [Direct contradiction of scripture. DA] Amen.<SM>

end

Nonsense! A lovely appealing pie in the sky by and by for everybody. Unfortunately you cannot prove this with scripture, in context.
I think I already answered your proof text but here it is again.

Revelation 22:10-12
(10) Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.
(11) Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy."
(12) "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.​

Jesus does not say "most unbelievers will come to Christ." He says "Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile;" Where is the verse which abrogates this?

Revelation 22:14-15
(14) "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
(15) Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.​

Vs. 14 Those who do NOT wash their robes do NOT have the right to the tree of life and do NOT have the right to enter the city.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.​

This verse also also refers to "the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood" in vs. 22:15. They shall in no wise enter the the city.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Vs. 14 Those who do NOT wash their robes do NOT have the right to the tree of life and do NOT have the right to enter the city.

That's what I said. Until they clean up they can't enter. 'Come on' we say, 'you can do it!'

 

[brinny]

Der Alter said: ↑
Vs. 14 Those who do NOT wash their robes do NOT have the right to the tree of life and do NOT have the right to enter the city.

That's what I said. Until they clean up they can't enter. 'Come on' we say, 'you can do it!'

God doesn't say that, as if sin and unrepentance does not matter, and Jesus His only begotten Son doesn't matter and is not necessary.

Scripture is not to be twisted, or tweaked, as is written in Revelation, with a warning to not do so. It's deceptive, and not of God.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" ~Isa 5:20

 

[Hillsage]

Nonsense. It is written in God's Word, for instance in the New Testament on false teachings and heresy, and what will happen to those who promote false teachings and heresy.

It is written:

"Woe to them.." amongst other things.

Like I said you post nothing concerning heresy scripturally. ALL opinion above not one verse to prove your POV, nothing but personal opinion....in my opinion.

But don't bother responding. I think I'm going to agree with SM that dialoguing with you is a dead end street. And I learned long ago that you have 2 choices in 'that situation'. Back out now, or go clear to the end and then turn around and end up later where you could have been sooner.

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
Nonsense. It is written in God's Word, for instance in the New Testament on false teachings and heresy, and what will happen to those who promote false teachings and heresy.

It is written:

"Woe to them.." amongst other things.

Like I said you post nothing concerning heresy scripturally. ALL opinion above not one verse to prove your POV, nothing but personal opinion....in my opinion.

But don't bother responding. I think I'm going to agree with SM that dialoguing with you is a dead end street. And I learned long ago that you have 2 choices in 'that situation'. Back out now, or go clear to the end and then turn around and end up later where you could have been sooner.

As you wish.

My post is based on what is written in God's Word, however.

His Word will accomplish whaever He sends it out to do.

We are to speak His Word.

God will water that seed and it will bear fruit.

 

[Der Alte]

That's what I said. Until they clean up they can't enter. 'Come on' we say, 'you can do it!'

How does anyone clean up in the grave?

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.​

In Matt 25 Jesus does not say to those on His left hand "First you clean up then you will go away into eternal life, too." He said to those on His left hand "You will go away into eternal punishment."
And Jesus never said to those who die in their sins "Come on you can do it."

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[BobRyan]

John 11
He *said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep.” 12 The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep. 14 So Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,

1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

In this life each night "the body sleeps" -- it is not "killed" each night.
In this life when a person dies "the body is killed" (not slept) Matt 10:28
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.

The souls of the people won't need to be woke up, .

Your argument is "with the text"

The bodies of the saints sleep, not the soul.

And the actual text says -- the body sleeps each night ... but when the person is killed ... the body is killed.

Matt 10:28
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.

Who does Christ bring with him?? dead bodies??

1 Thess 4
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

the text clearly needs to be edited to say "those who have bodies that sleep" (which would be all of us... every night)... ok so "not that"

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Kaon]

So I was listening to a sermon and the preachers used these 2 verses back to back to point out what seems like a total conflict.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Both of these verses both say that Sodom and Gomorrha is an example of what will happen to those who are lost. But Jude says they suffered eternal fire and Peter says they were turned into ashes and ashes always come in the aftermath of the fire when there is nothing else left to burn. So how do you guys reconcile these 2 verses and how does it impact your view on the destruction of the wicked.

It's both.

Imagine if you had an ore of metal. If you burn the impurities away, you will recover the precious metal. Now, if you are (most) all impurities, you will spend "forever" in the foundry trying to burn away the impurities to get to the precious metal.

Except, there is no precious metal, but instead of stopping the furnace, you keep it going to find even a kernel of preciousness.


Essentially, that is what happens to those who "burn"; these entities don't have any preciousness to them according to the Most High God - so, they will "burn to ashes" forever until they are purified - which is ~ forever. That is why it is a big deal that DEATH is also swallowed up into the same Lake of Fire; no stopping the "burn".