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A forever hell

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by KisKatte, May 1, 2021.

  1. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What you are saying here is taught by some Christian leaders, and I know you believe it, but such an example is never used in the New Testament to explain the fullness of the Gospel.

    The New Testament is the fullness of the mystery of the Gospel by the command of God to give us complete understanding.

    1 Peter 1:10-12 (WEB)
    10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets sought and searched diligently. They prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching for who or what kind of time the Spirit of Christ, which was in them, pointed to, when he predicted the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that would follow them. 12 To them it was revealed, that they served not themselves, but you, in these things, which now have been announced to you through those who preached the Good News to you by the Holy Spirit sent out from heaven; which things angels desire to look into.

    Colossians 1:25-26 (NIV) 25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the Word of God in its fullness — 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people.

    Ephesians 3:8-9 (NIV) 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

    Romans 15:17-19 (NIV) 17 Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. 18 I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done — 19 by the power of signs and wonders, through the power of the Spirit of God. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.

    The fullness of Gospel is now in writing by the command of the eternal God so that all Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith.

    Romans 16:25-27 (NIV) 25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith — 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

    Ephesians 3:4-6 (NIV) 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

    2 Corinthians 1:13 (NIV)
    13 For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand.

    Colossians 2:1-8
    1 I want you to know how much I am struggling for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally (so it has to be in writing). 2 My purpose is that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the Mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you with find sounding arguments.
    . . . 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

    So the fullness of the Gospel was preached, but was also written down by the Command of the Eternal God to give us complete understanding of the mystery of the Gospel, that for past ages was hidden.

    So we do not want to be using find sounding arguments of those who claim to have knowledge, teaching the opinions of men.

    And we are to earnestly contend for that faith that was once and for all revealed to us so we are not swept away by every wind of doctrine, traditions, and teachings of men, just like Lord Jesus condemned the Jewish leaders for doing.

    Jude 3-4 (WEB) 3 Beloved, while I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I was constrained to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For there are certain men who crept in secretly, even those who were long ago written about for this condemnation: ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into indecency, and denying our only Master, God, and Lord, Jesus Christ.

    So, by reading the New Testament Scriptures in context, we can understand the fullness of the Gospel, which God meant, and commanded, to give us the full riches of complete understanding of God’s saving grace that was still a mystery in times past, so that the Gentiles may be lead to obedience that comes from faith (Romans 15:17-19; Romans 16:25-27).

    Blessings
     
  2. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know you believe that, but such is not taught in the New Testament - the fullness of the mystery of the Gospel.

    God never fails in any of His promises. God has promised salvation to those who repent and believe, and will give eternal life to those who remain faithful to the end.

    The Scripture provides no guarantee that your faith will continue, because that is your responsibility and obligation before God to receive His gracious free gift of eternal life.

    Romans 8:12-13 (NIV) 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation — but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

    Matthew 24:11-13 (WEB) Speaking to His followers
    11 Many false prophets will arise and will lead many astray. 12 Because iniquity will be multiplied, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.

    Matthew 25:13 (WEB) Speaking to His followers
    13 Watch therefore, for you do not know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

    Luke 9:23-26 (WEB)
    23 He said to all, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever will lose his life for my sake, will save it.

    Luke 21:19 (WEB) Speaking to His followers
    19 By your endurance you will win your lives.

    Luke 21:34-36 (WEB) Speaking to His followers
    34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

    Acts 14:21-22 (WEB) 21 When they had preached the Good News to that city, and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that through many afflictions we must enter into God’s Kingdom.

    Romans 8:16 (WEB) 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God; 17 and if children, then heirs: heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, IF indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him.

    Romans 11:20-22 (WEB)
    20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

    1 Corinthians 10:11-12 (WEB) 11 Now all these things happened to them by way of example, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands be careful that he doesn’t fall.

    Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we do not give up.

    Colossians 1:21-23 (WEB)
    21 You, being in past times alienated and enemies in your mind in your evil deeds, 22 yet now he has reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and without defect and blameless before him, 23 if it is so that you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the Good News which you heard, which is being proclaimed in all creation under heaven, of which I, Paul, was made a servant.

    Ephesians 5:3-9 (WEB)
    3 But sexual immorality, and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be mentioned among you, as becomes saints; 4 nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not appropriate, but rather giving of thanks.
    5 Know this for sure, that no sexually immoral person, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God.
    6 Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. 8 For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, 9 for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

    2 Thessalonians 1:5 (WEB)
    5 This is an obvious sign of the righteous judgment of God, to the end that you may be counted worthy of God’s Kingdom, for which you also suffer.

    1 Timothy 1:18-20 (WEB)18 I commit this instruction to you, my child Timothy, according to the prophecies which were given to you before, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 holding faith and a good conscience, which some having thrust away made a shipwreck concerning the faith

    2 Timothy 2:11-14 (WEB)
    11 This saying is trustworthy:
    “For if we died with him, we will also live with him.
    If we endure, we will also reign with him.
    If we deny him, he also will deny us.
    If we are faithless, he remains faithful; for he can’t deny himself.”
    14 Remind them of these things, charging them in the sight of the Lord, that they do not argue about words, to no profit, to the subverting of those who hear.

    1 Timothy 4:1-2 (WEB) 4 But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 through the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron

    1 Timothy 4:14-16 (WEB) 14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the elders. 15 Be diligent in these things. Give yourself wholly to them, that your progress may be revealed to all. 16 Pay attention to yourself and to your teaching. Continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

    Philippians 3:12-14 (WEB)
    12 Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect; but I press on, that I may take hold of that for which also I was taken hold of by Christ Jesus.
    13 Brothers, I do not regard myself as yet having taken hold, but one thing I do: forgetting the things which are behind, and stretching forward to the things which are before, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus..

    1 Timothy 6:18-21 (WEB)
    18 that they do good, that they be rich in good works, that they be ready to distribute, willing to share; 19 laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold of eternal life.
    20 Timothy, guard that which is committed to you, turning away from the empty chatter and oppositions of what is falsely called knowledge, 21 which some profess, and thus have wandered from the faith.

    Hebrews 3:12-15 (WEB)12 Beware, brothers and sisters, lest perhaps there might be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God; 13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called “today”, lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end, 15 while it is said,
    Today if you will hear his voice,
    do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion
    .” [Psalms 95:7-8]

    Hebrews 4:11 (WEB)
    11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.

    Hebrews 12:14-17 (WEB)
    14 Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord, 15 looking carefully lest there be any man who falls short of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and many be defiled by it, 16 lest there be any sexually immoral person, or profane person, like Esau, who sold his birthright for one meal. 17 For you know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for a change of mind though he sought it diligently with tears.

    Hebrews 12:25 (WEB)
    25 See that you do not refuse him who speaks. For if they didn’t escape when they refused him who warned on the earth, how much more will we not escape who turn away from him who warns from heaven,

    James 1:12-16 (WEB)
    12 Blessed is a person who endures temptation, for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to those who love him.
    13 Let no man say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God,” for God can’t be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own lust and enticed. 15 Then the lust, when it has conceived, bears sin. The sin, when it is full grown, produces death. 16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.

    1 Peter 1:13-19 (WEB)
    13 Therefore prepare your minds for action. Be sober, and set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ — 14 as children of obedience, not conforming yourselves according to your former lusts as in your ignorance, 15 but just as he who called you is holy, you yourselves also be holy in all of your behavior; 16 because it is written, “You shall be holy; for I am holy.” [Leviticus 11:44-45] 17 If you call on him as Father, who without respect of persons judges according to each man’s work, pass the time of your living as foreigners here in reverent fear, 18 knowing that you were redeemed, not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, from the useless way of life handed down from your fathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb without blemish or spot, the blood of Christ

    2 Peter 1:10-11 (WEB)
    10 Therefore, brothers, be more diligent to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never stumble. 11 For thus you will be richly supplied with the entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

    2 Peter 2:1-2 (WEB)
    2 But false prophets also arose among the people, as false teachers will also be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction. 2 Many will follow their immoral ways, and as a result, the way of the truth will be maligned.

    2 Peter 3:11-12 (WEB)
    11 Therefore since all these things will be destroyed like this, what kind of people ought you to be in holy living and godliness, 12 looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, which will cause the burning heavens to be dissolved, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

    2 Peter 3:17-18 (WEB)
    17 You therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware, lest being carried away with the error of the wicked, you fall from your own steadfastness. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

    1 John 2:15-17 (WEB)
    15 Do not love the world or the things that are in the world. If anyone loves the world, the Father’s love isn’t in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, isn’t the Father’s, but is the world’s. 17 The world is passing away with its lusts, but he who does God’s will remains forever.

    Revelation 3:1-5 (WEB)
    1 “I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    Revelation 3:11-12 (WEB)
    11 I am coming quickly! Hold firmly that which you have, so that no one takes your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.

    Revelation 12:11 (WEB)
    11 They overcame him because of the Lamb’s blood, and because of the word of their testimony. They didn’t love their life, even to death.

    Revelation 14:12-13 (WEB)
    12 Here is the perseverance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    Revelation 21:6-8 (WEB)
    6 He said to me, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give freely to him who is thirsty from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes, I will give him these things. I will be his God, and he will be my son. 8 But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

    Hebrews 10:24-31 (WEB)
    24 Let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good works, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as the custom of some is, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
    26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which will devour the adversaries.
    28 A man who disregards Moses’ law dies without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think he will be judged worthy of who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance belongs to me. I will repay,” says the Lord. [Deuteronomy] 32:35 Again, “The Lord will judge HIS people.” [Deuteronomy 32:36; Psalms 135:14] 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    Blessings
     
  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Is this taught in the New Testament?

    Romans 5:18-19
    Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
    so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
    19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
    so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
     
  4. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, good Scripture.
     
  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    It conflicts with what you are claiming.

    Saint Steven said:
    Is this taught in the New Testament?

    Romans 5:18-19
    Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
    so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
    19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
    so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
     
  6. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    God gives up on some people.
    Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s express will, clearly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist.
    It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
    …..This passage very much speaks to God’s sovereign will, and man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

    Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
    2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
    3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
    4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
    5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
    6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
    7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
    8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
    9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
    10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
    11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.


    · · ·
    14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
    Note, verse 14, God said “I will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.”





     
  7. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree with the Passage. By the obedience of Christ Jesus onto death, the many will be made righteous.

    The rest of the Scriptures teach us how God makes us righteous. For instance, read Romans 6, Romans 8, Ephesians 4, Colossians 3:1-17, Galatians 5:13-25, etc.
     
  8. cfposter

    cfposter Member

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    1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
     
  9. cfposter

    cfposter Member

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    CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine)

    Chapter 41 [XX.]— The Wills of Men are So Much in the Power of God, that He Can Turn Them Whithersoever It Pleases Him

    Chapter 42 [XXI]— God Does Whatsoever He Wills in the Hearts of Even Wicked Men.

    Chapter 43.— God Operates on Men's Hearts to Incline Their Wills Whithersoever He Pleases.







    .
     
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  10. CleanSoul

    CleanSoul Member

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    Yes. I do not follow what you are saying.
     
  11. CleanSoul

    CleanSoul Member

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    You are comparing apples to oranges here. Suicide is not necessarily a guaranteed ticket to hell.
     
  12. JMV

    JMV New Member

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    Stop calling your Redeemer satan, there is but one tormentor and he shall become ashes. Nothingness is his reward and for all his deceivers. Still to this day you uphold his lie, saying "you will surely not die" but in torment or paradise. Yet may not the deceived or deceiver perish, not for what they are but what they shall be. Heed the Truth of the matter:

    5/2/07 From The Lord, Our God and Savior
    The Word of The Lord Spoken to Timothy
    For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear


    Thus says The Lord: Come forth, O acolytes of satan, all you wicked vipers who shake your fists at Heaven and spit at The King! Come and hiss at My chosen, that I may strike you down! For from the dust had I formed you, and to the dust shall you return!

    For thus is the eternal state of My punishment, thus is the punishment you shall receive at My own hand: Destruction in the lake that burns, consumed in an instant, gone from My presence forever! Darkness, outer darkness, nothingness is your reward! And you shall never even know you had received it or received it not! You shall know NOTHING, nor shall you have ANY part in life! It is taken from you, and shall never again be granted to you; your inheritance lost, your existence blotted out!


    THIS, O perverse generation,
    Is the eternal state of My punishment;
    For the lake of My burning heart is
    Judgment and not life, a consuming fire!...


    THEREFORE TURN! SAYS THE LORD...

    Depart from your wicked ways,
    Heed the Call and take warning,
    And REPENT!"

    Amen! Repent, turn a deaf ear to this doctrine of devils made by the modern pharisees.
    For Thus says The Lord, He who is holy, He who is true: "Have I not made the matter known? Beloved ones, how is it you have yet to discern? Tell Me, in this doctrine of hell and eternal torment, as taught by those who call of themselves Christian, what fruit is displayed? - Love? Joy? Peace? Patience? Kindness? Gentleness? Goodness? Mercy?! So then if it bears no fruit, according to My own spirit, then from what spirit must this doctrine come, and upon what foundation is it built? For I have already told you, whosoever believes in The Son shall abide forever, and whosoever has not The Son shall perish and not see life. Therefore you do greatly err.

    Behold, I shall speak plainly, so those who have ears to hear may hear and draw close, and so those who refuse to hear may forbear and depart: ANYONE who holds fast to the false doctrine of hell and eternal torment, as taught in the churches of men, DO NOT KNOW ME! Nor have they embraced Me in truth, nor does My spirit dwell within them; I do not know them! Thus refinement shall be their portion, and abasement their due reward, in the Great and Dreadful Day of The Lord! For by strong rebuke I must correct them, and with an outstretched hand shall I bring swift discipline upon them! For they have surely blasphemed My name, even on the highest order!
    Therefore, beloved ones, hear My words and also understand: You must forsake this doctrine, for it is most perverse. You must withdraw yourself from all who teach this doctrine or seek to uphold it in any way. For it is written: You can not drink the cup of The Lord and the cup of demons; you can not partake of The Lord’s table and of the table of demons.


    Therefore come out from among them, and be separate...

    Come to Me and embrace Me as I truly am,
    And I also shall embrace you, setting you apart
    From all these who have deceived you...


    Then shall that which was brought forth
    From a lie, as a veil of darkness to cover
    The heads of My people, be destroyed in the light
    Of pure understanding and undefiled wisdom,
    Crushed beneath the weight of The Truth, which I am...


    Says He who is faithful, He who is true."

    For there is but One Way, One Truth, One Life. Nothing or none other than YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH! Yes isn't He your Shepherd, your Redeemer, your Father, your Brother, your most beloved Friend? If He is then remember...

    "Say no more there is another way into eternal life, nor say those who reject His life live also, though it be in torment. For there is but ONE WAY, ONE TRUTH and ONE LIFE..."

    Says the Lord.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    Apparently angels did.
     
  14. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    How can you agree with the passage when you only misquote a quarter of it?
    I can see why you skipped over verse 18. Tell me, in the first half of verse 19 does "the many" equal less than all? Were all made sinners by the disobedience of the one man? (yes) Or was it less than all?

    Romans 5:18-19
    Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
    so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
    19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
    so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I think you were claiming that there is no salvation after death. Were those in the Harrowing of Hell dead? Did Jesus save them after they died? Why couldn't it happen again?

    Saint Steven said:
    Were those folks dead?
     
  16. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I find it hard to follow you as to what the disagreement is, but I think I understand better now.

    In verse 18, the righteous act of Lord Jesus resulted in justification and life for all people. This means that this justification and life is made possible ("for") all people because Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus provided that justification for all people.

    Verse 18 is not saying that every human being is now justified and given life. And we know that isn't true because all of the Scriptures testify that only those who believe - a repentant faith - are given life.

    And only a remnant of humanity will believe in Him and be saved.

    John 8:12 (WEB) 12 Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. (Isaiah 60:1). He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.

    John 12:46 (WEB)
    46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in the darkness

    Therefore, whoever believes in Jesus receives the light, and has passed from death to life.

    John 5:24 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

    The path to salvation is narrow and few will find it

    Matthew 7:14; Matthew 22:14, Luke 13:23-30; Revelation 3:1-5; Romans 9:27.

    Even so, that “few” is representative of perhaps a few hundred million people that will be saved out of the billions of people that have ever lived (Revelation 7:9-17).

    Lord Jesus is that Path – the Way, the Truth, and the Life – so we want to listen to the instruction Lord Jesus, and His Apostles, gave us, and to follow Him to receive life, just has He instructed us. That is the Faith of the Gospel.

    1 John 2:5-6 (WEB)
    5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.

    Verse 19 refers to the "many." The "many" is not comparing to the unsaved, but rather, "many" refers to all those who will be justified and saved - millions of people.

    Blessings
     
  17. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My faith is in God and His Word.
     
  18. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    You are twisting what the verse actually says to fit your doctrine. Saying it can't mean what it plainly says. The verse says "resulted", which you changed to "made possible".

    There were two acts that had results for all people. This is further confirmed in verse 19.

    Romans 5:18-19
    Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
    so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
    19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
     
  19. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Furthermore...
    Both verses have a "just as" and "so also" comparative. Meaning, in the same way.

    Romans 5:18-19
    Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
    so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
    19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
     
  20. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Amazing, how you reject all the Scriptures I provided to hold onto your opinion that all are saved.

    John 3:18 (WEB)
    18 He who believes in him is not judged.
    He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

    1 Timothy 2:3-6 (WEB)
    3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony in its own times

    God's desire is to save all, and God provided the ransom for all.

    The will of God is to give to the Son only those who believe in the Son. These are the only ones who receive eternal life.

    John 6:39-40 (WEB)
    39 This is the will of my Father who sent me, that of all he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise him up at the last day. 40 This is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son, and believes in him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
    That is the condition, the Covenant.

    God’s grace is offered to all through the Gospel, but the Scriptures clearly teach that a person appropriates that saving grace to himself when they repent toward God and have faith in Lord Jesus.
     
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