A Corporeal Return? Says Who?

[New Birth]

When you say that Jesus was taken up into the first heaven, that is not self-explanatory. That is you. The Bible does not say that he was taken up into the first heaven.

The verses are self explanatory. its plain and simple, sorry your having such a difficult time with it.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Jesus tells Caiaphas that he is coming in power in the clouds of heaven (Mt 26:64). Yes, clouds of heaven; not a stratus cloud, a cumulus cloud, or a fog hovering over a lake. Clouds of heaven.

Jesus also says that he will come “as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west.” (Mt 24:27) He comes as light from all directions. Also as the sound of the trumpet of God. (1 Thes 4:16). To repeat, a trumpet of God, not marching band brass.

The Bible does not describe a flesh-and-blood return of Christ.

When we consider all the ways that the Parousia is prophesied, we see that he comes everywhere. Lightning lights up the sky all around. The nature of his coming may elude us until we grasp it in the context of scripture. The way that Jesus comes—on clouds of heaven, as a call from God, as lightning—cannot be manifested in flesh and blood. A man cannot come in these ways. Christ’s advent is rather a return in power and spirit that the Scriptures corroborate. How much more glorious and momentous an advent that would be than to come in the body of a man.

Think about that for a moment, about limitations imposed on flesh and blood, even Christ’s. When in the flesh, Jesus performed miracles and amazed the crowds around him, and even some who heard by word of mouth. His miracles impacted locally. If he were to be a man again, what would change? What would his impact be globally and for all time? Would he really effect a worldwide utopia? Of course not. Even a return in power and spirit would not effect such an “idyllic” world. John the Divine says the wicked still live on the earth despite the presence of the kingdom. God’s kingdom does not vanquish evil from the world. It confronts evil and challenges it, but wickedness still persists outside the gates.

So where does the idea of a corporeal return come from? The church fathers? Dispensationalists? Who knows?

Certainly not from the Scriptures.

A physical return of Christ comes from the Bible.

 

[Residential Bob]

A physical return of Christ comes from the Bible.

That's great.

What about a corporeal return?

 

[Albion]

So where does the idea of a corporeal return come from? The church fathers? Dispensationalists? Who knows?

Certainly not from the Scriptures.

From the Scriptures:

"After He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. They also said, 'Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven'" (Acts of the Apostles 1:11).

 

[Jonaitis]

So if Jesus' return isn't corporeal, how do you interpret 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18? I mean, others have quoted clear cut passages. This is Christianity 101, this isn't quantum physics.

 

[NW82]

Acts 1:11.

 

[Residential Bob]

So if Jesus' return isn't corporeal, how do you interpret 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18? I mean, others have quoted clear cut passages. This is Christianity 101, this isn't quantum physics.

If his return is corporeal, how do you interpret all the verses I cited in the OP?

The Bible says that Christ comes like lightening, like a trumpet call of God, in clouds of heaven, etc. Not once does it say he comes in flesh and blood.

Please tell us how these clear-cut passages translate to a corporeal return.

This isn't quantum physics; it's Christianity 101.

 

[Residential Bob]

Acts 1:11.

Matthew 24:27.

 

[RaymondG]

I too, happen to believe that the coming of the Lord to be a spiritual event that will come when we are ready....having ears to hear and eyes to see. And when we are like Him, He shall appear to us and we will see Him as He is.......We will be caught up to meet Him in the air, and so shall be forever be with the Lord. Watch as well as pray.

 

[Jonaitis]

If his return is corporeal, how do you interpret all the verses I cited in the OP?

The Bible says that Christ comes like lightening, like a trumpet call of God, in clouds of heaven, etc. Not once does it say he comes in flesh and blood.

Please tell us how these clear-cut passages translate to a corporeal return.

This isn't quantum physics; it's Christianity 101.

I don't understand the problem you are having. Does his physical return have to fit the understanding of your limitations?

 

[Residential Bob]

I don't understand the problem you are having. Does his physical return have to fit the understanding of your limitations?

This thread is not about a physical return; it's about a corporeal return.

 

[Jonaitis]

This thread is not about a physical return; it's about a corporeal return.

Okay? Its all connected, so I am not off topic.

We read that the resurrection is real too, this would mean every person from every generation and every place they lived will stand before his presence. How does one conceive of that? Don't try to fit God in a box.

 

[ViaCrucis]

When the Logos became flesh, He united to Himself the fullness of human nature. He had human flesh, a human soul, a human mind, a human will, etc. That one undivided Person, Jesus Christ, who is both truly God and truly human, was born, lived, walked, breathed, healed, suffered under Pilate, was crucified, He died, He was buried, and then rose from the dead three days later. He had the scars to prove it was Him. Then this very same Jesus, truly God and truly human, ascended into the heavens in order to sit at the right hand of authority at His Father's side. This same Jesus, truly God and truly human, lives and reigns in glory with the Father, and will come again as Judge of both the living and the dead, and His kingdom is everlasting to everlasting.

We don't get some other Jesus at the Parousia, we get the same Jesus. The eternal Son and Word of the Father who became flesh, by the power of the Holy Spirit, conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary Theotokos, was born, lived, ate, walked, suffered, died, was buried, descended into hades, rose again, ascended up into glory, is seated in power, and who comes again on the Last Day.

There is no such thing as a non-corporeal Jesus. The only Jesus there is is the God-Man, the flesh and blood offspring of Mary, the eternal Son of the Father, the crucified and risen Jesus Christ our Lord.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[civilwarbuff]

That's great.

What about a corporeal return?

physical and corporeal are words that are used interchangeably...….corporeal refers to the physical body.....
cor·po·re·al
[kôrˈpôrēəl]
ADJECTIVE

1. relating to a person's body, especially as opposed to their spirit.
   "he was frank about his corporeal appetites"
   synonyms:
   bodily · corporeal · corporal · fleshly · in the flesh · somatic
   • having a body.
     "a corporeal God"
     synonyms:
     bodily · fleshly · carnal · corporal · human · mortal · earthly · physical · material · actual · real · substantial · tangible · concrete
   • law
     consisting of material objects; tangible.
     "corporeal property"

 

[Pedra]

Really, no adding, just take it at face value. Sometimes people make the mistake to spiritualize scripture or see it as a metaphor when it should be understood as it's written in context to the other scripture around it.

 

[RaymondG]

It is also interesting to note that the religious leaders of the past had a specific way in which the messiah was suppose to come.......so when this carpenter came in a way different from their belief, he was dismissed and crucified.

Who is putting God in the box? The one saying that He has to come in physical/corporeal form, or the one who exclaims nay, it must be spiritual? I dont know.

I say, In whatever way you choose to come......Come Lord. The sheep need not worry, as they will hear His voice and follow him......

 

[NW82]

Matthew 24:27.

Non sequitur

 

[Tree of Life]

Jesus tells Caiaphas that he is coming in power in the clouds of heaven (Mt 26:64). Yes, clouds of heaven; not a stratus cloud, a cumulus cloud, or a fog hovering over a lake. Clouds of heaven.

Jesus also says that he will come “as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west.” (Mt 24:27) He comes as light from all directions. Also as the sound of the trumpet of God. (1 Thes 4:16). To repeat, a trumpet of God, not marching band brass.

The Bible does not describe a flesh-and-blood return of Christ.

When we consider all the ways that the Parousia is prophesied, we see that he comes everywhere. Lightning lights up the sky all around. The nature of his coming may elude us until we grasp it in the context of scripture. The way that Jesus comes—on clouds of heaven, as a call from God, as lightning—cannot be manifested in flesh and blood. A man cannot come in these ways. Christ’s advent is rather a return in power and spirit that the Scriptures corroborate. How much more glorious and momentous an advent that would be than to come in the body of a man.

Think about that for a moment, about limitations imposed on flesh and blood, even Christ’s. When in the flesh, Jesus performed miracles and amazed the crowds around him, and even some who heard by word of mouth. His miracles impacted locally. If he were to be a man again, what would change? What would his impact be globally and for all time? Would he really effect a worldwide utopia? Of course not. Even a return in power and spirit would not effect such an “idyllic” world. John the Divine says the wicked still live on the earth despite the presence of the kingdom. God’s kingdom does not vanquish evil from the world. It confronts evil and challenges it, but wickedness still persists outside the gates.

So where does the idea of a corporeal return come from? The church fathers? Dispensationalists? Who knows?

Certainly not from the Scriptures.

Do you also reject the bodily resurrection of Christ?

 

[Pedra]

It is also interesting to note that the religious leaders of the past had a specific way in which the messiah was suppose to come.......so when this carpenter came in a way different from their belief, he was dismissed and crucified.

Who is putting God in the box? The one saying that He has to come in physical/corporeal form, or the one who exclaims nay, it must be spiritual? I dont know.

I say, In whatever way you choose to come......Come Lord. The sheep need not worry, as they will hear His voice and follow him......

Which is why Jesus said to the pharisees something like ; " it is in your own scriptures... but still you don't recognize me. " Jesus return, it's written in the scriptures - literally.

 

[Albion]

If his return is corporeal, how do you interpret all the verses I cited in the OP?

That would be three citations in the OP, I believe. None explicitly answer the question although I certainly do not interpret him coming like lightning to mean there will be lightning and it will literally be Christ. The greater number of verses that are explicit about his coming being in the same form as he left Earth -- which several posters gave immediately -- can only be taken one way.