2018 outpouring, are you feeling it? I am!

[Hillsage]

Hillsage, don't you ever just have a conversation with someone? You're down talking everybody. It seems like you're just looking for reasons to jump all over other people.

I believe I’ve already explained myself. And I believe I am simply 'responding' to the 'reactions' I first encounter. And it certainly escalates from there. Which is never the direction I'm hoping for but seldom find in nominal Christianity.

We all have arguments about the topic. Why treat everyone else like they're below you? Why would you treat other believers like this while claiming to be so full of the Spirit?

When someone comes on the scene thinking too highly of themselves to begin with, I respond accordingly. I've been here long enough that it doesn't take long either. So I speak of things I’m pretty sure you’ve never considered or even heard of concerning your orthodox POV. I'm really just hoping to see if another is even capable asking a sincere question, because you're overwhelmed by what I say. If not, it's usually because you're not here seeking the truth. You're seeking to win with the only view you have, and that's one I HAD. And it has been said; "The man that only knows his view, doesn't even know that." If you can't stand my testing you, like your view once tested me, then it is not I who is lacking IMO. IOW I'm testing to see what spirit they are of. This is the UNORTHODOX forum for a reason. I AM UNORTHODOX and can defend that position IMO. I've been Orthodox, studied to show myself approved, and found myself believing in doctrines which were lacking that very consistency in scripture like you correctly claim of Pentecostals/Charismatics. But your view is till wrong also IMO. And now, your accusation saying I’ve "claimed to be full of the Spirit” which is a complete untruth. I don’t even believe the Holy Spirit as a person is in anybody. So you have again made a totally errant judgmental of me which simply proves you really don’t even know me or what I believe.

So many people, including myself have found the pentecostal/charismatic world to be inconsistent with scripture. Do you question someone like Sarah Young over her Jesus Calling book? If all those words are actually from Christ himself, should they all be added to the Bible?

I believe I am very consistent and if you remember, I am the one who keeps asking for you guys to support your 'opinions' with scripture. You never see my consistency because you have pigeon holed me with the Charismatic belief system box which you know. And that's a box which I’ve already stated, more than once in this thread, is also with error. I don't fit anyone's box theologically and I don't think anyone's box is without error including mine. As for Sarah Young, I never heard of her.

[/quote]During all my years in the pentecostal church, when someone would speak in tongues, it was always said that it was God's words coming through. You could tell by how the speaker would speak in first person. If that is literally God's words, shouldn't every tongues occasion be added to the Bible? Is God's Word not as authoritative now as it was back then?[/QUOTE]
I don’t care what was always said. You’ve never asked what I thought about what was said. I’ve heard as much baloney in my years spent in Catholicism and fundamentalism also. That’s why I now claim Charismatic. Not ‘as much’ because I am one, but because I've been 'Catholic and fundamental' and the Charismatic movement was the last outpouring ‘move’ of God on earth and I experienced it. And that has changed my life. But IMO the Charismatice movement isn’t moving anymore either. It too has become denominationalized with it’s own choking of the true 'moving of God’s Spirit in His people.'

So if you'd like to try a new start, I'm all for that. But you'll have to accept that we're never going to agree on everything. And that's really just fine with me.

 

[Hillsage]

What the difference between having the holy spirit when believe, and having the spirit of Christ and the holy Spirit when believing. Why are we discussing anyway?

As I mentioned last post, for one thing I don't believe anyone has the person of the Holy Spirit in their sinful fleshed bodies. I have a Greek Interlinear where the SCHOLARS in the introduction admit THEY didn't even know when to capitalize H and S making the words holy and spirit the third person of the trinity. I have a study bible which also has an appendix which states that translators made capitalization errors 52 times in the new testament along those same lines concerning the person of the Holy Spirit compared to the actions of the Holy Spirit. So, my theology makes provision for all those 'problems' which most don't even have a clue about to begin with. The reason they don't, is because the scholars and church leaders want to keep the dumb sheep from getting upset, because nobody has it all figured out. So the nominal church of today has become a battle for everyones 'belief systems'. And my belief is it really isn't even important concerning 'what you believe', when compared to 'who you believe in'. And coming to that place has allowed the Spirit to lead and guide me to go places and learn things most would never do.

Edit: I don´t know how much human Christ was that is a mistery right? the bible says ´God with us´ in a human body.

I know exactly how human Christ was;

HEB 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his BRETHREN in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make expiation for the sins of the people.

So, and this is important, 'as a BRETHREN', Jesus was as much 'God in the flesh', as I am 'God in the flesh', based upon this scripture IMO. And He was also as human as I am human.

And I know exactly how 'equal to God "the Word" had to be, before He gave up equality with God to become sinful flesh';

PHI 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
6 who, though he was in the form (spirit) of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form (flesh) of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

ROM 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh...

I can say much more, but I'll await a questions as to what I've already shared. As well as scripture to support any disagreement you might have.

 

[DennisTate]

I'm a puppet and God pulls my strings. one puppet may not understand how or why God moves the strings of other puppets. I'm not too concerned about how God moves me. as an observer, I trust God cause he moved me to trust him. So for, he hasn't moved me to babble and flap like fishes . I don't see any purpose for that

I haven't either yet......
but I have seen my wife and others do it and the results were transformation in their lives.

 

[tulipbee]

I haven't either yet......
but I have seen my wife and others do it and the results were transformation in their lives.

Kundulini awakenings transforms lives. Like me, I learned vibrations creates vocal events. Evolution can be a good thing. That can use this energies for other things like seeing auras, visions, fast for 40 days, predict winnning lotto numbers and stuff. With this I was able to see rcc added 7 extra uninspired, unauthored by God and unbreathed books to God's words. Vibrations have numbers. Bible has theomatics. The awakened will see the cymatics in God's words. This rules out rcc being the true church. The never had authority for day one when they were invented in 3rd century

 

[tulipbee]

IOW you had no scripture to support your last post? And you apparently had nothing to refute my scriptural response to your post either? So now it digresses to ‘flapping’ your....keyboard... about fishes. Oh, BTW do you know what the language of man was before God came down and confused them? Nobody does!!! But you want to know what languages ALL on earth now speaks BIBLICALLY? Would it not be the very ‘babble’ like you just wrote your last post in? I don’t agree with you on one point...God didn’t move you to speak like you did. But then, I personally think there are two sources of ‘string pulling’ in our Christian struggles.

The holy spirit knows best

 

[Hillsage]

The holy spirit knows best

Everyone would agree agree. But the 'spirit of deception' is also real, and influences many. And if you don't discern the difference between the spirit of a 'Christian fire tunnel' and the 'Kundalinii manifestation' of a 'coiled up snake' inside, then 'that' would pretty much define where we would be in a disagreement concerning 'spiritual things'.

 

[tulipbee]

holy spirit is the illuminance of God's words which tells you spiritual things of God. let's not get into fire tunnels

 

[wonderkins]

That fire tunnel stuff is demonic. Notice how everybody turns on the craziness as soon as they get up there.

In case anyone hasn't seen it, here's a video by Andrew Strom about the whole thing. Mr. Strom is a charismatic so bias is not a problem here.

 

[Hillsage]

2CO 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
15 So it is not strange if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

And in accordance with the verse above (written to possibly the most Charismatic and spiritually active church ever known); we have a warning concerning those deceived by spiritual manifestations. Those who think the kundulini serpent manifestation is of God are wrong, and those who think a 'fire tunnel' is of the Devil are wrong IMO.

AndrewStromResponse.com - A Response to the critic Andrew Strom by Randy Clark

 

[DennisTate]

That fire tunnel stuff is demonic. Notice how everybody turns on the craziness as soon as they get up there.

In case anyone hasn't seen it, here's a video by Andrew Strom about the whole thing. Mr. Strom is a charismatic so bias is not a problem here.

Andrew Strom is one of the most fearful......
Christians leaders that I have ever read anything by..... If he is correct....
most modern miracles and healings are happening by the power of Beelzebub.

He is in the mind set of the Scribes and Pharisees... and if I were you... I would be careful of his leaven.

Mat 12:24

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellowdoth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

 

[DennisTate]

I'm a puppet and God pulls my strings. one puppet may not understand how or why God moves the strings of other puppets. I'm not too concerned about how God moves me. as an observer, I trust God cause he moved me to trust him. So for, he hasn't moved me to babble and flap like fishes . I don't see any purpose for that

I haven't either.... but I have seen it..... and I am wide open to the possibility of my doing that one of these days?????

 

[DennisTate]

2CO 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
15 So it is not strange if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

And in accordance with the verse above (written to possibly the most Charismatic and spiritually active church ever known); we have a warning concerning those deceived by spiritual manifestations. Those who think the kundulini serpent manifestation is of God are wrong, and those who think a 'fire tunnel' is of the Devil are wrong IMO.

AndrewStromResponse.com - A Response to the critic Andrew Strom by Randy Clark

Well said..... i do believe that a Fire Tunnel can produce more powerful prayers for each other........ Due to the fire tunnel tapping into the principle of......

Matthew 18:20

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

and......

Leviticus 26:8

And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.

 

[Karola]

Pentecostals do often use dramatic language, I was raised one

 

[Dorothy Mae]

holy spirit is the illuminance of God's words which tells you spiritual things of God. let's not get into fire tunnels

So what did the Holy Spirit illluminate in the scripture for you recently?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I haven't either yet......
but I have seen my wife and others do it and the results were transformation in their lives.

What kind of transformation? How was she different than before?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

At my wife's Pentecostal church this Sunday.... .which was also Pentecost......
a "Fire Tunnel" / blessing tunnel was done.......... and the outpouring was amazing......

I haven't seen anything even remotely like it in about a decade.

Day before yesterday, Monday, was even more powerful in many ways and all I could do for more than one hour........was go for walks and pray...... I am beginning this discussion because I believe that some of you will feel this and i think I know how to assist you to go through this.......... in the easiest way possible.

The key to making this as easy as possible ..... is HUMILITY!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156010491478485

Isaiah 2:11

"The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:"
.....

Isaiah 2:17

"And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth."

I have been feeling tremendous conviction over my own pride.......
I may seem somewhat humble to you.... because I really try to be polite.......
but politeness is not HUMILITY......
and G-d will not dwell with people who are not sincerely and genuinely humble.......


Isaiah 57:15

"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones."

Calling Andrew Strom the names you did is not very humble at all. The humble are teachable. I have noticed that those engaged in these sort of antics are fairly intolerant (and proud) to those who question the Kundalini spirit entering the church. So far all I ever hear is people had some kind of experience (similiar to what Hindus into certain events experience) and not a one of them has ever mentioned anything sound that GOd taught them. It is all experience, no knowledge or virture or kindness or anything of that sort...just feeling great.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Good question..... begin with getting a group of people into one place..... in a similar mind set.....

Acts 2:1

¶
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Find a group of people who believe that the unconverted disciples of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus who were sent out.... even had authority to cast out devils and cure diseases.

Luk 10:1

¶
After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come."

Luk 10:17

¶
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name."
.....
Notice how Cephas / Peter.. would be actually converted in the future... I believe on the day of Pentecost of Acts chapter 2.

Luk 22:32

But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and whenthou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."


So.... if seventy relatively unconverted disciples of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus could pray for the sick and they be healed........
then how much more so ordinary Christians after.. .the fulfillment of Acts chapter 2.

I agree with my wife's group that healing and other miracles are not limited only to professionals.

So how many have you and your wife prayed for who were healed?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You don't get it do you, I DON"T CARE WHAT YOU CALL IT. Where does the BIBLE call it that?
King David, the man after God's heart dancing naked before Him???? I call fire tunnels as much more self controlled than that? So David must have been wrong, by your judgmental standards. The point I'm making, and you are not getting is, there was no such thing as Sunday school spelled out in scripture. Not being in scripture doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it wrong.


Even that sounds like a religious spirited answer to me also. It also looks like plain old waffling.

David never danced naked before the Lord and the city. He wore a linen ephod. That is what the Bible says.

A fruit of the Holy Spirit is SELF-CONTROL. If a person cannot control their body, it is not the Holy Spirit working.

 

[Hillsage]

David never danced naked before the Lord and the city. He wore a linen ephod. That is what the Bible says.

And a linen ephod is the equivalent of underwear. Please don't let your love of the 'letter of the law' keep you from realizing the truth of 'spirit of the law' in my comment.

A fruit of the Holy Spirit is SELF-CONTROL. If a person cannot control their body, it is not the Holy Spirit working.

And how does your opinion above differ from that of Michal when she was judging David for "shamelessly" 'loosing control' in HER opinion?

2SA 6:20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!

And since God struck Michal with leprosy, I believe we know whose side He was on.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

And a linen ephod is the equivalent of underwear. Please don't let your love of the 'letter of the law' keep you from realizing the truth of 'spirit of the law' in my comment.

PLease look what an ephod is. God was not commanding them as to what underwear to don. It is “an elaborate garment” upon which a breastplate is laid.

A fruit of the Holy Spirit is SELF-CONTROL. If a person cannot control their body, it is not the Holy Spirit working.

And how does your opinion above differ from that of Michal when she was judging David for "shamelessly" 'loosing control' in HER opinion?[/quote] The Bible doesn’t day he lost control. Says he danced. Michel didn’t say he lost control either.

2SA 6:20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!

Where does it say David lost control of his body? The evidence of the Holy Spirit being SELF control is not control of where the wind blows your garments.

And since God struck Michal with leprosy, I believe we know whose side He was on.

Loose with the Word aren’t you here? She was barren, not a leper.