2018 outpouring, are you feeling it? I am!

[DennisTate]

At my wife's Pentecostal church this Sunday.... .which was also Pentecost......
a "Fire Tunnel" / blessing tunnel was done.......... and the outpouring was amazing......

I haven't seen anything even remotely like it in about a decade.

Day before yesterday, Monday, was even more powerful in many ways and all I could do for more than one hour........was go for walks and pray...... I am beginning this discussion because I believe that some of you will feel this and i think I know how to assist you to go through this.......... in the easiest way possible.

The key to making this as easy as possible ..... is HUMILITY!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156010491478485

Isaiah 2:11

"The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:"
.....

Isaiah 2:17

"And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth."

I have been feeling tremendous conviction over my own pride.......
I may seem somewhat humble to you.... because I really try to be polite.......
but politeness is not HUMILITY......
and G-d will not dwell with people who are not sincerely and genuinely humble.......


Isaiah 57:15

"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones."

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Where is "fire tunnel" in the bible or anything that even represents such a thing.
Brother don't be deceived.

 

[DennisTate]

Where is "fire tunnel" in the bible or anything that even represents such a thing.
Brother don't be deceived.

Good question..... begin with getting a group of people into one place..... in a similar mind set.....

Acts 2:1

¶
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Find a group of people who believe that the unconverted disciples of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus who were sent out.... even had authority to cast out devils and cure diseases.

Luk 10:1

¶
After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come."

Luk 10:17

¶
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name."
.....
Notice how Cephas / Peter.. would be actually converted in the future... I believe on the day of Pentecost of Acts chapter 2.

Luk 22:32

But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and whenthou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."


So.... if seventy relatively unconverted disciples of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus could pray for the sick and they be healed........
then how much more so ordinary Christians after.. .the fulfillment of Acts chapter 2.

I agree with my wife's group that healing and other miracles are not limited only to professionals.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Good question..... begin with getting a group of people into one place..... in a similar mind set.....

Acts 2:1

¶
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Find a group of people who believe that the unconverted disciples of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus who were sent out.... even had authority to cast out devils and cure diseases.

Luk 10:1

¶
After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come."

Luk 10:17

¶
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name."
.....
Notice how Cephas / Peter.. would be actually converted in the future... I believe on the day of Pentecost of Acts chapter 2.

Luk 22:32

But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and whenthou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."


So.... if seventy relatively unconverted disciples of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus could pray for the sick and they be healed........
then how much more so ordinary Christians after.. .the fulfillment of Acts chapter 2.

I agree with my wife's group that healing and other miracles are not limited only to professionals.

I am not saying we do not have authority to cast out devils and pray for the sick. But this is not what a fire tunnel is, and we do not see or read about people flopping around and jerking uncontrollably in the bible, that is unless they are demon possessed. None of the scriptures you quoted substantiates what we see in these so called fire tunnels.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Where is "fire tunnel" in the bible or anything that even represents such a thing.
Brother don't be deceived.

Fire tunnel??? Grave soaking?? WOE!?

 

[Tutorman]

Lots of bad and very questionable stuff here. Problem is when man gets involved he wants to do more than should be done imho.

 

[DennisTate]

I am not saying we do not have authority to cast out devils and pray for the sick. But this is not what a fire tunnel is, and we do not see or read about people flopping around and jerking uncontrollably in the bible, that is unless they are demon possessed. None of the scriptures you quoted substantiates what we see in these so called fire tunnels.

Unless..... perhaps a fire tunnel combines the spiritual authority of a number of believers....... and the result is exorcism..... which can result in convulsions?


Luke 9:42

"And as he was still coming, the demon threw him down and convulsed him. Then Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, healed the child, and gave him back to his father."

Matthew 18:20

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

 

[DennisTate]

Fire tunnel??? Grave soaking?? WOE!?

My old church, the Worldwide Church of God led by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong had quite a controversy during the 1930's and '40's with Pentecostals.........
so we also believed that many of these manifestations were from the dark side........
but I have changed my mind........
and I now believe that a significant percentage of these unusual phenomena are truly the Holy Spirit at work.

I believe that some of the strange things that happen in a fire tunnel.......
are us Christians being delivered from various fallen angels or demons that still have some legal right to influence us...... (at least to some degree) ... due to our pride..... and our various sins.

I know that my old church came awfully close to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit when it comes to how we thought about the Pentecostal and Charismatic gifts.......
I believe that we opened ourselves up to what Pastor Rick Joyner was shown, (but... that does not mean that fallen angels cannot duplicate or fake some of the Pentecostal or Charismatic gifts.... so caution is necessary...... I do have to agree to that)!

What I have experienced over these past five days is me.... .Dennis Tate, being partly delivered from my Pride.......... and Self Righteousness.....
Respectability, Selfish Ambition, and Unrighteous Judgment, and Jealousy!

The Final Quest [English] Rick Joyner

The Evil Army



I saw a demonic army so large that it stretched as far as I could see. It was separated into divisions, with each carrying a different banner. The foremost and most powerful divisions were Pride, Self righteousness, Respectability, Selfish Ambition, and Unrighteous Judgment, but the largest of all was Jealousy. The leader of this vast army was the Accuser of the Brethren himself. I knew that there were many more evil divisions beyond my scope of vision, but these were the vanguard of this terrible horde from hell that was now being released against the church.

The weapons carried by this horde had names on them: the swords were named Intimidation; the spears were named Treachery; and their arrows were named Accusations, Gossip, Slander and Faultfinding. Scouts and smaller companies of demons with such names as Rejection, Bitterness, Impatience, Un-forgiveness and Lust were sent in advance of this army to prepare for the main attack. I knew in my heart that the church had never faced anything like this before.

The main assignment of this army was to cause division. It was sent to attack every level of relationship-churches with each other, congregations with their pastors, husbands and wives, children and parents, and even children with each other. The scouts were sent to locate the openings in churches, families or individuals that rejection, bitterness, lust, etc., could exploit and make a larger breech for the divisions that were coming.

The most shocking part of this vision was that this horde was not riding on horses, but on Christians! Most of them were well-dressed, respectable, and had the appearance of being refined and educated. These were Christians who had opened themselves to the powers of darkness to such a degree that the enemy could use them and they would think that they were being used by God. The Accuser knows that a house divided cannot stand, and this army represented his ultimate attempt to bring such complete division to the church that she would completely fall from grace.

The Prisoners

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Unless..... perhaps a fire tunnel combines the spiritual authority of a number of believers....... and the result is exorcism..... which can result in convulsions?

You really believe that? How many people went through this tunnel and were jerking and yelling and laughing uncontrollably. Just look for fruit, fruit of the spirit is self control. You had that many possessed people in your church? The Holy Spirit is not going to contradict the word nor the Lord. And watch the fruit of these people over time. Are they still struggling with the same things? Have they changed and reflect the fruit of the spirit more than before? The bible says we are not just just lay hands on people carelessly.

 

[DennisTate]

You really believe that? How many people went through this tunnel and were jerking and yelling and laughing uncontrollably. Just look for fruit, fruit of the spirit is self control. You had that many possessed people in your church? The Holy Spirit is not going to contradict the word nor the Lord. And watch the fruit of these people over time. Are they still struggling with the same things? Have they changed and reflect the fruit of the spirit more than before? The bible says we are not just just lay hands on people carelessly.

Perhaps three out of thirty people experienced jerking during the
fire tunnel that we did on Sunday........

I have never fallen to the floor even though I have gone through perhaps five or six fire tunnels over the last decade.

I have seen my wife fall to the ground... but the fruit of her having this experience......
sure seems to be greater patience for me......
and I can be really, really, really.... annoying!

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Perhaps three out of thirty people experienced jerking during the
fire tunnel that we did on Sunday........

I have never fallen to the floor even though I have gone through perhaps five or six fire tunnels over the last decade.

I have seen my wife fall to the ground... but the fruit of her having this experience......
sure seems to be greater patience for me......
and I can be really, really, really.... annoying!

I pray the Lord shows you the truth. You are basing your opinion from "experiences and feelings" not from sound doctrine lining up with the word.

 

[Hillsage]

Where is "fire tunnel" in the bible or anything that even represents such a thing.
Brother don't be deceived.

Amen brother....and while you’re at it find the verse justifying Sunday school. I sure hope that ‘unbiblical’ practice doesn’t take place at ‘your church’. And while we’re at it let’s not forget ‘the church service’ which follows THE BIBLE’S protocol for holding one correctly, as defined by Paul. 1 Cor. 14:26. How does your church gathering on Sunday measure up to that biblically?

Sorry for my bluntness, but pointing out false judgments like “deception” from a religious spirit were biblical, and called out by Jesus himself.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Amen brother....and while you’re at it find the verse justifying Sunday school. I sure hope that ‘unbiblical’ practice doesn’t take place at ‘your church’. And while we’re at it let’s not forget ‘the church service’ which follows THE BIBLE’S protocol for holding one correctly, as defined by Paul. 1 Cor. 14:26. How does your church gathering on Sunday measure up to that biblically?

Sorry for my bluntness, but pointing out false judgments like “deception” from a religious spirit were biblical, and called out by Jesus himself.

Sunday school

“Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭22:6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Proverbs 22:6 NKJV; Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it.

 

[Tutorman]

I pray the Lord shows you the truth. You are basing your opinion from "experiences and feelings" not from sound doctrine lining up with the word.

That is an unfortunate side effect of some Charismatics and Pentecostals, feelings overcome sound doctrine.

 

[Hillsage]

Sunday school

“Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭22:6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Proverbs 22:6 NKJV; Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it.

That verse is no more of a justification for Sunday School than your "deception" judgment was for fire tunnels. And now, add to it your false judgment of 'possessed people in the church' having inspired fun, how about telling us how many 'drunk in the Spirit' members ever showed up in your church?

And scriptural support for 'that comment of mine' comes from the following.

ACT 2:15 For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day;

EPH 5:18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit,

So if they 'weren't drunk on Pentecost' but were filled with the Spirit instead as Eph suggests, where is your churches manifestation of such "mad" 'antics'?

Also, you obviously have never plumbed the depths of that Proverbs verse you posted either. Which proves the saying that scripture can be a veil as well as a revelation, depending upon whether one is "seeing and hearing" in the biblical context....which Jesus promoted.

BTW You also just answered half of my post. Care to answer the other half? How does YOUR CHURCH measure up to 1Cor 14 description of "brethren coming together"? And just to make it easier, I'll even let you leave your church off the hook. That 'hook' being, that this was the most Charismatic tongue talking church ever, or at least, in the bible for sure.

 

[Hillsage]

That is an unfortunate side effect of some Charismatics and Pentecostals, feelings overcome sound doctrine.

And you make this unfortunate judgement of yours based upon what? Your observation, or your participation? I suspect I have had as much, if not more self discipline in my walk, than you as an Episcopalian. And 'that' being so, I unfortunately only testify as to having danced in the Spirit one time. And that was in our home group one night when the presence of the Spirit fell so hard, every 15-20 of us danced...that 'one' time. Did the Spirit MAKE us do it? NO!! He merely provided the 'inspiration' and we provided the 'perspiration' to move our biblical "hinderparts", instead of sitting on them, like most church goers. A fundamentalist could easily have judged us as acting "drunk" or "mad" or any other number of biblical terms such as the "ungifted/unlearned" ones in the church did...even back then.

 

[Tutorman]

And you make this unfortunate judgement of yours based upon what? Your observation, or your participation?

Both and I am a Charismatic Episcopalian of the Charismatic Episcopal Church. In the movements there is much unsound things happening because people want it to happen. Seen it and lived it where feelings overcome sound doctrine.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

That verse is no more of a justification for Sunday School than your "deception" judgment was for fire tunnels. And now, add to it your false judgment of 'possessed people in the church' having inspired fun, how about telling us how many 'drunk in the Spirit' members ever showed up in your church?

And scriptural support for 'that comment of mine' comes from the following.

ACT 2:15 For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day;

EPH 5:18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit,

So if they 'weren't drunk on Pentecost' but were filled with the Spirit instead as Eph suggests, where is your churches manifestation of such "mad" 'antics'?

Also, you obviously have never plumbed the depths of that Proverbs verse you posted either. Which proves the saying that scripture can be a veil as well as a revelation, depending upon whether one is "seeing and hearing" in the biblical context....which Jesus promoted.

BTW You also just answered half of my post. Care to answer the other half? How does YOUR CHURCH measure up to 1Cor 14 description of "brethren coming together"? And just to make it easier, I'll even let you leave your church off the hook. That 'hook' being, that this was the most Charismatic tongue talking church ever, or at least, in the bible for sure.

It totally matches. We train up the children in the way of the Lord, some call it Sunday school. Seriously could not be more supportive scripture to back that up.

I did not address the second part because it is non sense and you are calling anyone who questions the validity of counterfeit things like fire tunnels those who have religious spirit.

 

[Hillsage]

Both and I am a Charismatic Episcopalian of the Charismatic Episcopal Church. In the movements there is much unsound things happening because people want it to happen. Seen it and lived it where feelings overcome sound doctrine.

Please, do tell me where this 'sound doctrine' is in the bible that says fire tunnels are unsound doctrine? They may be unsound in a mattress Methodist, bedside Baptist or even a Charismatic Episcopalian church but prove that biblically. And I'm not buying the fruit of 'self control' as justification. That excuse is worthless IMO. That's like saying kids just having fun before the Lord aren't as important as old religious codgers to God.

 

[Hillsage]

It totally matches. We train up the children in the way of the Lord, some call it Sunday school. Seriously could not be more supportive scripture to back that up.

You don't get it do you, I DON"T CARE WHAT YOU CALL IT. Where does the BIBLE call it that?
King David, the man after God's heart dancing naked before Him???? I call fire tunnels as much more self controlled than that? So David must have been wrong, by your judgmental standards. The point I'm making, and you are not getting is, there was no such thing as Sunday school spelled out in scripture. Not being in scripture doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it wrong.

I did not address the second part because it is non sense and you are calling anyone who questions the validity of counterfeit things like fire tunnels those who have religious spirit.

Even that sounds like a religious spirited answer to me also. It also looks like plain old waffling.