Daniel 7:11 and Beast and False Prophet Reve 13:20

DaDad

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Daniel 11:21 has yet to happen.

Hi V,

11:20 “Then shall arise in his place one who shall send an exactor of tribute through the glory of the kingdom; but within a few days he shall be broken, neither in anger nor in battle.

You know, there's an interesting point in World History, which intersects PRECISELY with this passage. I seem to recall that President Nixon (who submits the National Budget to Congress) was "broken, neither in anger nor in battle", when he resigned (a FIRST in American History).

21 In his place shall arise a contemptible person to whom royal majesty has not been given; he shall come in without warning and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Agnew, having been freshly elected to his second term as Vice President, resigned within days of his second Inauguration, leaving Nixon without a Vice President. And according to the 25th Amendment, Nixon nominated Jerald Ford as his NEW Vice President (a Second FIRST in American History), who was confirmed by Congress (i.e., "flatteries").

And of course, when Nixon resigned, Ford became President (a Third FIRST in American History).

And after Ford became President, according to the 25th Amendment he nominated Nelson Rockefeller as his new Vice President (a Fourth FIRST in American History).


But nah, following the 12:4 & 9 angelic guidance that these prophecies are "shut up and sealed for the time of the end" CANNOT mean that they apply to an era approximate to 1948. Who'd be so gullible as to believe that the angel meant what he said ...

DaDad
 
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iamlamad

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A beast is shown thrown in to fire in Daniel:

Daniel 7:
11 Then I kept watching because of the arrogant words the horn was speaking.
As I continued to watch, the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.

12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was removed, but they were granted an extension of life for a season of time.

Which of these 2 beasts is the one thrown into the fire? And the false prophet is only mentioned in Revelation 6:13. Is he considered one of the beasts? Thks for any help on this.


Revelation 13:
1 Then I saw a beast with ten horns and seven heads rising out of the sea.
5 The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months[Revelation 11:2].
6 And the beast opened its mouth to blaspheme against God and slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven

11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the land.
This beast had two horns like a lamb, but spoke like a dragon.
12 And this beast exercised all the authority of the first beast and caused the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose mortal wound had been healed.

Revelation 16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon,
out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet
who had performed signs on his behalf, by which he deceived those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.
Both of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur...

Since Revelation is a more recent revelation and is more complete than Daniel, I would form my beliefs in Revelation, and fill in any missing pieces from the older scriptures.
 
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iamlamad

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Hi V,

11:20 “Then shall arise in his place one who shall send an exactor of tribute through the glory of the kingdom; but within a few days he shall be broken, neither in anger nor in battle.

You know, there's an interesting point in World History, which intersects PRECISELY with this passage. I seem to recall that President Nixon (who submits the National Budget to Congress) was "broken, neither in anger nor in battle", when he resigned (a FIRST in American History).

21 In his place shall arise a contemptible person to whom royal majesty has not been given; he shall come in without warning and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Agnew, having been freshly elected to his second term as Vice President, resigned within days of his second Inauguration, leaving Nixon without a Vice President. And according to the 25th Amendment, Nixon nominated Jerald Ford as his NEW Vice President (a Second FIRST in American History), who was confirmed by Congress (i.e., "flatteries").

And of course, when Nixon resigned, Ford became President (a Third FIRST in American History).

And after Ford became President, according to the 25th Amendment he nominated Nelson Rockefeller as his new Vice President (a Fourth FIRST in American History).


But nah, following the 12:4 & 9 angelic guidance that these prophecies are "shut up and sealed for the time of the end" CANNOT mean that they apply to an era approximate to 1948. Who'd be so gullible as to believe that the angel meant what he said ...

DaDad
IN CONTEXT Dan. 11:20 would be some time before Antiochus Epiphanes.
 
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DaDad

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IN CONTEXT Dan. 11:20 would be some time before Antiochus Epiphanes.
I'll defer to the angel for the chronological context:

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

... not some ill considered commentator.


And if you're interested, a Daniel 11:1 conquering king doesn't need to be strengthened, but a vanquished king DOES. So you might consider starting the "context" at 10:1 where it belongs, and Cyrus was still only king over the Persians, -- not the Babylonians. To be king over the Babylonians you'll have to follow 1:21 where he's called "king Cyrus". :)

Thanks,
DaDad
 
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Douggg

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A beast is shown thrown in to fire in Daniel:

Daniel 7:
11 Then I kept watching because of the arrogant words the horn was speaking.
As I continued to watch, the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.

12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was removed, but they were granted an extension of life for a season of time.

Which of these 2 beasts is the one thrown into the fire? And the false prophet is only mentioned in Revelation 6:13. Is he considered one of the beasts? Thks for any help on this.


Revelation 13:
1 Then I saw a beast with ten horns and seven heads rising out of the sea.
5 The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months[Revelation 11:2].
6 And the beast opened its mouth to blaspheme against God and slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven

11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the land.
This beast had two horns like a lamb, but spoke like a dragon.
12 And this beast exercised all the authority of the first beast and caused the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose mortal wound had been healed.

Revelation 16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon,
out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet
who had performed signs on his behalf, by which he deceived those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.
Both of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur...
The beast in Daniel 7:11 is the Roman Empire, and specifically the end times version of it, the EU. There will be no more Roman Empire or versions of it, following its final leader the 8th king, the beast, being cast into the lake of fire.

The beast, the person, will be the 7th king of the Roman Empire, who will be killed and brought back to life as the 8th king. The kings of Revelation 17:10 are kings of the Julio-Claudian family.

The second beast of Revelation 13, the one coming out of the earth, will be a false prophet emerging out of Israel.
 
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Revealing Times

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The beast in Daniel 7:22 is the Roman Empire, and specifically the end times version of it, the EU. There will be no more Roman Empire or versions of it, following its final leader the 8th king, the beast, being cast into the lake of fire.

The beast, the person, will be the 7th king of the Roman Empire, who will be killed and brought back to life as the 8th king. The kings of Revelation 17:10 are kings of the Julio-Claudian family.

The second beast of Revelation 13, the one coming out of the earth, will be a false prophet emerging out of Israel.
The Beast on Dan 7:22 is a MAN........Not a kingdom, thus he arises out of the Fourth Beast but he is a LITTLE HORN. The Kings of 17:10 represent presidents of the countries of Europe.
 
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Douggg

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The Beast on Dan 7:22 is a MAN........Not a kingdom, thus he arises out of the Fourth Beast but he is a LITTLE HORN. The Kings of 17:10 represent presidents of the countries of Europe.
I made a typo error in my post. I went back and corrected to Daniel 7:11.

Dan 7:22 does not say any beast, but the person in Daniel 7:21 is the little horn, I agree.
 
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LittleLambofJesus said in post #1:

[Re: Daniel 7:11]

Which of these 2 beasts is the one thrown into the fire?

Daniel 7:11b refers to the future Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast, being cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:20). In Daniel 7 the Antichrist is considered to be part of the fourth beast (Daniel 7:23-25).

In Daniel 7, the first three beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The fourth beast, or fourth "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. And the ten horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent ten major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These ten nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The ten part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the ten horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43 the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand, and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other, could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the ten as a singular "kingdom". The person who will bring this about could be the future Antichrist.

The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the future Antichrist will arise from a little country. And the little horn arising from "among" the ten major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these four kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of three of the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, that is, a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist federation could be put together in our future by an Iraqi Baathist General (the future Antichrist's precursor) who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all ten of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like how when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.
 
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LittleLambofJesus said in post #1:

And the false prophet is only mentioned in Revelation 6:13. Is he considered one of the beasts?

The beast who comes up out of the earth in Revelation 13:11-16 represents the individual man who will become the future Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). He could be a secretly-apostate pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are not we all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Cannot we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but have only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What is more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in two religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the two horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the seven horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding seven positions of power at the same time (compare Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say that he is Jesus returned (via "reincarnation"). But he will not that say he is Christ. For the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22) and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), also called Satanism, a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times the prophet Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).
 
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LittleLambofJesus said in post #1:

. . . Thks for any help on this.

Revelation 13:
1 Then I saw a beast with ten horns and seven heads rising out of the sea.

The seven heads of Revelation's "beast" in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent seven empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first five had fallen by the time of the apostle John in the first century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The sixth (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The seventh (possibly Islam) had not come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, eighth head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of five empires which had fallen by the time of the apostle John (Revelation 17:8,10-11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon destroyed at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Isaiah 13).

Before the Second Coming, when the world is brought into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and the Antichrist, during the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned (via "reincarnation"), and so reinstitute the system which Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim that he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.
 
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DaDad

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Daniel 11:21 starts the time of the little horn.
stands up a vile person in the same estate
...
The little horn king goes down at the end of Daniel 11.
...
Look back to earlier - ahead of verse 13 - and you can see that the end was coming back then. Antiochus of Epiphanes is not shown in Daniel 11.

Daniel 11:12 - is about Antohcus the great. ...
Ummmmm, you can't even get to where you suppose WITHIN CONTEXT, much less defend your position IF YOU COULD get there ...

Have you read the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9, and if so, then why do you disobey them?
Thanks,
DaDad
 
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DaDad

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Bible2+ said:
So many ill advised doctrines, so much wasted breath ...

The Daniel Chapter 7 "beasts" are not as asserted, -- they comprise the Empire of Clay FIFTH "DIVIDED KINGDOM", as validated by 2:45 Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE.

The Seven Heads are not as asserted, -- they are as the Image of Metals depicts, AND THERE AIN'T NO "Egypt", "Assyria", or "ISLAM". Who makes this stuff up?!?

The anit-christ is ALSO not as asserted, -- his name calculates to 666, and WE KNOW WHO HE IS!!! And he AIN'T NO RELIGIOUS CON ARTIST.

Could anyone be any further from the truth?

Whew,
DaDad
 
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DaDad said in post #34:

[Re: The Antichrist]

-- his name calculates to 666 . . .

That's right.

For the 666 in Revelation 13:17c-18 refers to the number six hundred and sixty-six, the "number of the name" of the individual man who will be the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast").

The number of a name (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2) is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: the first nine letters are assigned a value of 1 through 9, the next nine letters are assigned a value of 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are assigned a value of 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Revelation 13:18 the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the future Antichrist's name should be done in the same way that the gematrial numerical values of the three Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma) at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred and sixty-six.

The numerical values assigned to the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the three obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, and Sampi) were as follows: Alpha = 1, Beta = 2, Gamma = 3, Delta = 4, Epsilon = 5, Stigma = 6, Zeta = 7, Eta = 8, Theta = 9, Iota = 10, Kappa = 20, Lambda = 30, Mu = 40, Nu = 50, Xi = 60, Omikron = 70, Pi = 80, Qoppa = 90, Rho = 100, Sigma = 200, Tau = 300, Upsilon = 400, Phi = 500, Chi = 600, Psi = 700, Omega = 800, Sampi = 900.

Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, and Stigma at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the Textus Receptus) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the future Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). The apostle John used the Greek alphabet because it was the most common one used by Christians when the book of Revelation was written down in the first century AD. Today, the English alphabet is the most common one used by Christians, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the Antichrist's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet. The purpose of Revelation 13:17c-18 is to facilitate for Christians, not to make difficult for them, the identification of a certain man as possibly being the Antichrist. If the letters in his name had to be transliterated into the Greek alphabet, this would vitiate this purpose, for almost all Christians today would not know how to properly perform this transliteration, and so different Christians would come up with different transliterations, and so would come up with different gematrial numbers for the name of the man in question.

If Christians think that someone is the Antichrist, then they need to check to see if his name adds up to 666 in gematria (Revelation 13:17c-18). If it does not, then he is not the Antichrist. If it does, then he could be, and they need to be especially wary of him, and not be taken in by any deceptive charisma, intelligence, or amazing deeds which he might display. But even if someone's name does add up to 666, this does not mean that he is definitely the Antichrist. For just by chance there could be more than one person in the world whose name adds up to 666. The Antichrist also has to come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", which adds up to 666.

But if a man from the Middle East has a name that adds up to 666, even this does not assure that he is the Antichrist. For he also has to sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). Once he does that, there will not be any more room for doubt over whether or not he is the Antichrist. His identity will have been definitely revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters of the English alphabet are: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=20, L=30, M=40, N=50, O=60, P=70, Q=80, R=90, S=100, T=200, U=300, V=400, W=500, X=600, Y=700, Z=800. The way that the gematrial number of a name is "counted" (Revelation 13:17c-18), is added up, is simply by adding up the gematrial numerical values of all of the letters in that name. So, for example, the number of the name "John Mark Smith" is 636, because: J=10, O=60, H=8, N=50, M=40, A=1, R=90, K=20, S=100, M=40, I=9, T=200, H=8. Total = 636. The future Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18).
 
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DaDad said in post #34:

[Re: The Antichrist]

. . . WE KNOW WHO HE IS . . .

Do you mean, as is often claimed, that the Antichrist is the pope?

If so, note that the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), will not support Catholicism in its past and current form, insofar as Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Christ, while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Son of God, while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Son of God (1 John 2:22b). And Catholicism affirms that Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Catholicism affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that the only man who is God is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, while the Antichrist will say that he (the Antichrist) is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that Lucifer (Satan) is evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the future Antichrist's religion, during his literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, will not be Catholicism in its past and current form, but a blend of Gnosticism and Luciferianism, also called Satanism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly apostate pope), could at first pretend to support Catholicism (as well as Christianity generally, and also Islam), to start gaining a worldwide following.

If a secretly-apostate pope does become the future Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20, and Revelation 16:13), then adherents of Catholicism will have to decide what their ultimate source of truth is: Is it the pope and the RCC, or God and the Bible? Many adherents of Catholicism who know God and the Bible well, and hold to them as their ultimate source of truth, will no doubt be utterly aghast at the false doctrines of a False Prophet pope. Such adherents of Catholicism could demand that he be removed for heresy, and apostasy, and that the cardinals elect a new pope. But other adherents of Catholicism, including many cardinals, bishops, and priests, could be deceived (along with most of the rest of the world) into believing the False Prophet pope's false doctrines, because of his ability to perform the most amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20; cf. Matthew 24:24).

And so a great schism could arise within the RCC. Compare the Akita prophecy: "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops". Many adherents of Catholicism could follow the False Prophet pope, while other adherents of Catholicism could reject him, and elect their own, new pope (or reinstate a former pope who is still alive), whom they could declare to be the "True Pope". But this new (or reinstated) "True Pope" could then be murdered, along with many of his followers, by the False Prophet pope's soldiers. Compare the Third Secret of Fatima: "he [the pope] was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions". Could the soldiers firing "arrows" be the Vatican's Swiss Guards, whose weapons and colorful uniforms hark back to the Middle Ages?

After this slaughter, the False Prophet pope could manage to retain the papacy, and full control of the Vatican, and through his (deceived) cardinals, bishops, and priests, retain full control of all RCC cathedrals, parishes, churches, etc., throughout the world. And when the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") obtains power over all nations, he and the False Prophet will make war against true, Biblical Christians (whether they are adherents of Catholicism or not) throughout the world, and will physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken the physical power of the true Church (which consists of all true Christians, whether they are adherents of Catholicism or not: Ephesians 4:4-6) that the future Tribulation will end (Daniel 12:7b), and Jesus Christ's Second Coming will immediately occur, at which time He will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the Church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), of all times. And at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so He/God will get all of the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For He/God will not share this glory with the Church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).
 
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DaDad said in post #34:

The anit-christ is ALSO not as asserted, -- his name calculates to 666, and WE KNOW WHO HE IS . . .

By "his name", do you mean "Vicarius Filii Dei"?

If so, note that title of the pope only equals 666 when by mistake people use the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name:

V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A
R
I = 1
U = 5 (because under this method U is the same as V)
S

F
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1
D = 500
E
I = 1

Total = 666

This does not mean that the pope is the Antichrist. It just means that the Roman-numeral method gives false positives. For example:

E
L = 50
L = 50
E
N

G
O
U = 5
L = 50
D = 500

W = 10 (because W = double U = UU = VV)
H
I = 1
T
E

Total = 666

This does not mean that the most important early leader of the SDA view is the Antichrist. It just means that the SDA view (or any other view) should not employ the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name, instead of the Bible's own method, which is gematria.
 
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jgr

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By "his name", do you mean "Vicarius Filii Dei"?

If so, note that title of the pope only equals 666 when by mistake people use the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name:

V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A
R
I = 1
U = 5 (because under this method U is the same as V)
S

F
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1
D = 500
E
I = 1

Total = 666

This does not mean that the pope is the Antichrist. It just means that the Roman-numeral method gives false positives. For example:

E
L = 50
L = 50
E
N

G
O
U = 5
L = 50
D = 500

W = 10 (because W = double U = UU = VV)
H
I = 1
T
E

Total = 666

This does not mean that the most important early leader of the SDA view is the Antichrist. It just means that the SDA view (or any other view) should not employ the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name, instead of the Bible's own method, which is gematria.

ELLEN GOULD WHITE is not a Roman/Latin name. There is no rationale for applying Roman numeralcy to it or any other non-Roman/Latin name.

VICARIVS FILII DEI is a Roman/Latin name, and thus Roman numeralcy is applicable.

Roman numeralcy is not gematria, which originated from practitioners of the Jewish Kaballah (occult mysticism). Gematria is akin to necromancy, which is condemned numerous times in Scripture, and is subject to the punishments described therein, including death.
 
Last edited:
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