Your source indicated that the early church fathers provide evidence of the fish being added, because Irenaeus, Eusebius and Arnobius don't mention the fish. And it indicates this was because they were not yet inserted into the Greek manuscripts.
Here are the dates for those authors:
Irenaeus 125-202
Eusebius of Caesarea 260-339
Arnobius died 330
Once again, it would be helpful if sources were given for these statements.
In the case of Irenaeus I was able to find one reference, and it is quite clear why he mentions the loaves, but not the fish.
It is from Against Heresies, book II, Chapter XXIV.—Folly of the arguments derived by the heretics from numbers, letters, and syllables.
The reason it doesn't mention to the 2 fishes is because he is making a point about their false understandings based on numbers, in this case the 5 loaves.
ccel.org
4. But that this point is true, that that number which is called five, which agrees in no respect with their argument, and does not harmonize with their system, nor is suitable for a typical manifestation of the things in the Pleroma, [yet has a wide prevalence,] will be proved as follows from the Scriptures. Soter is a name of
five letters; Pater, too, contains five letters; Agape (love), too, consists of five letters; and our Lord, after3173 blessing the five loaves, fed with them five thousand men. Five virgins were called wise by the Lord; and, in like manner, five were styled foolish. Again, five men are said to have been with the Lord when He obtained testimony from the Father,—namely, Peter, and James, and John, and Moses, and Elias.
I found what I think is the reference in Arnobius where he makes brief mention, and
I agree Arnobius doesn't reference the fish. But to say that by his time fish was not in Greek manuscripts does not follow, as we have church fathers from earlier times quoting such.
Arnobius
Against the Heathen
Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.
www.newadvent.org
46. Was He one of us, I say, who by one act of intervention at once healed a hundred or more afflicted with various infirmities and diseases; at whose word only the raging and maddened seas were still, the whirlwinds and tempests were lulled; who walked over the deepest pools with unwet foot; who trod the ridges of the deep, the very waves being astonished, and nature coining under bondage; who with live loaves satisfied five thousand of His followers: and who, lest it might appear to the unbelieving and bard of heart to be an illusion, filled twelve capacious baskets with the fragments that remained?
Here are various church fathers who do reference fish in feeding the multitudes, or eaten with honeycomb, or as a good gift, etc. some at quite early dates.
ccel.org
Ignatius Died around 108
To the Philippians
And how can He be but God, who raises up the dead, sends away the lame sound of limb, cleanses the lepers, restores sight to the blind, and either increases or transmutes existing substances, as the five loaves and the two fishes, and the water which became wine, and who puts to flight thy whole host by a mere word?
Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.
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Justin Martyr 100-165
On the Resurrection
And when they were by every kind of proof persuaded that it was Himself, and in the body, they asked Him to eat with them, that they might thus still more accurately ascertain that He had in verity risen bodily; and He ate honey-comb and fish.
ccel.org
Origen 185-253
Commentary on Matthew
It must be observed, however, that while in Matthew, Mark, and Luke,5349 the disciples say that they have the five loaves and the two fishes, without indicating whether they were wheaten or of barley, John alone says, that the loaves were barley loaves.
Cyprian 210-258
To Antonianus About Cornelius and Novatian.
23. The Lord also in His Gospel, setting forth the love of God the Father, says, “What man is there of you, whom, if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give good things to them that ask Him?”2494 The Lord is here comparing the father after the flesh, and the eternal and liberal love of God the Father.
ccel.org
Lactantius 250-325
The Divine Institutes
And when He had tarried there three days, and the people were suffering from hunger, He called His disciples, and asked what quantity of food672 they had with them. But they said that they had five loaves and two fishes in a wallet. Then He commanded that these should be brought forward, and that the multitude, distributed by fifties, should recline on the ground. When the disciples did this, He Himself broke the bread in pieces, and divided the flesh of the fishes, and in His hands both of them were increased.
ccel.org
Augustine 354-430
Sermon on the Mount, Harmony of the Gospels, Homilies on the Gospels
For after saying, “There is a lad here which hath five barley loaves and two fishes,” he likewise subjoined, “But what are they among so many?” And this last clause really means the same as the expression in question, namely, “except we should go and buy meat for all this people.”
ccel.org
Constitutions of the Holy Apostles 375-380
He that made Aaron’s dry rod put forth buds,3027 will raise us up in glory; He that raised Him up that had the palsy whole,3028 and healed him that had the withered hand,3029 He that supplied a defective part to him that was born blind from clay and spittle,3030 will raise us up; He that satisfied five thousand men with five loaves and two fishes, and caused a remainder of twelve baskets,3031 and out of water made wine,3032 and sent a piece of money out of a fish’s mouth3033 by me Peter to those that demanded tribute, will raise the dead.
ccel.org
John Chrysostom 347-407
Homily XLIX.Matt. XIV. 13.
But John saith also, that they were “barley loaves,”1928not mentioning it without object, but teaching us to trample under foot the pride of costly living. Such was the diet of the prophets also.1929
2. “He took therefore the five loaves, and the two fishes, and commanded the multitude,” it is said, “to sit down upon the grass, and looking up to Heaven, He blessed, and brake, and gave to His disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.1930 And they did all eat and were filled, and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full. And they that had eaten were about five thousand men, beside women and children.”
My whole point is the will of God. Your position is that God changes. My position is that God never changed. God permits things while they are not God's will.
I could only trust you to have a really good look at the site I gave for information.
My whole point is the will of God. Your position is that God changes. My position is that God never changed. God permits things while they are not God's will.
I could only trust you to have a really good look at the site I gave for information.
The Gospels of the Hebrews and Ebionites describe a vegetarian ethos: a vegetarian Jesus and vegetarian Apostles, a John the Baptist who ate carob (locust beans), and a rejection of ritual animal sacrifice.
Keith Akers points out the existence of different versions of the biblical story — the Feeding of the 5,000 or the Multitude:
“If you look at other accounts of the same incident… If you look, for example, at the Early Church Fathers, who also talk about these stories, Irenaeus mentions the feeding of the 5,000. Eusebius also mentions that, and Arnobius, another early church writer also discusses Jesus’ feeding of the multitude, the miraculous feeding of the multitude.
“And in every case they discuss the bread but they don’t mention anything about fish. So I think that fish is a later addition. In fact, if you even look at the New Testament, it says, at another point, when Jesus is talking about the feeding of the five thousand, he says, ‘Don’t you remember when I fed the multitudes and all the bread that we took up?’ And he doesn’t mention the fish.” (Keith Akers, see, Fish Stories in the New Testament.
Also see: The Lost Religion of Jesus: Simple Living and Nonviolence in Early Christianity, pages 126–129), on fish as a later addition.
The Gospels of the Hebrews and Ebionites describe a vegetarian ethos: a vegetarian Jesus and vegetarian Apostles, a John the Baptist who ate carob (locust beans) — beans not bugs! and a rejection of ritual animal sacrifice, be it in pagan temples or the Jewish temple of Jerusalem.
The original version of the “Feeding of the Multitude” story only refers to bread, not bread with fish. “Fish” apparently got added to some gospel verses later on. Keith Akers points out the existence of different versions of the biblical story — the Feeding of the 5,000 or the Multitude:
“If you look at other accounts of the same incident… If you look, for example, at the Early Church Fathers, who also talk about these stories, Irenaeus mentions the feeding of the 5,000. Eusebius also mentions that, and Arnobius, another early church writer also discusses Jesus’ feeding of the multitude, the miraculous feeding of the multitude.
“And in every case they discuss the bread but they don’t mention anything about fish. So I think that fish is a later addition. In fact, if you even look at the New Testament, it says, at another point, when Jesus is talking about the feeding of the five thousand, he says, ‘Don’t you remember when I fed the multitudes and all the bread that we took up?’ And he doesn’t mention the fish.” (Keith Akers, see, Fish Stories in the New Testament)
Also see: The Lost Religion of Jesus: Simple Living and Nonviolence in Early Christianity, pages 126–129), on fish as a later addition.
And see: Keith Akers, Was Jesus a Vegetarian?
Matthew 16:9’s Loaves Without Any Mention of Fish: “Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered?” No fish included with the loaves there.
Mark 8:16–21 — Again… another example of bread but no fish being mentioned in connection with the Feeding of the Five Thousand.
Irenaeus (125–202) lived during the Second Century and described in detail the Miracle of the Multitude being fed with bread. No mention whatsoever of fish. Eusebius and Arnobius also never mention ‘fishes with the loaves’, only the loaves. And now I’ve found two more references in early Christian apocryphal writings, again mentioning the bread but not the fish, as if in the New Testament they were reading at the time, the feeding of the five thousand story didn’t include fish… because the ‘fish’ hadn’t been inserted into Greek gospel manuscripts yet.
As it now stands, in the New Testament Gospels: “The bread is everywhere present, but the fish only sometimes. This strongly suggests that the original tradition was about distribution of bread, not bread and fish. In the case of Matthew 16:9–10, the insertion of fish becomes obvious, because the editors of Matthew changed the original story to include fish but forgot to change Jesus’ backward reference.” (Keith Akers, The Fish Stories in the New Testament.
There are actually many examples of “textual variations” in the diversity of New Testament manuscripts, with words or phrases either being added or omitted. In New Testament manuscripts, while there are some textual variations throughout, by far, the majority of variations occur with the Four Gospels and the Book of Acts.
The most spectacular example of this is at the end of the Gospel of Mark, which has several different alternate endings depending on what manuscript one happens to be using:
“Manuscripts omitting Mark 16:9–20
Manuscripts adding a shorter ending after verse 8
Manuscripts adding a shorter ending and verses 9–20
Manuscripts adding verses 9–20
Manuscripts adding verses 9–20 with a notation
Manuscripts adding verses 9–20 without divisions”
So it’s interesting to notice that fishes are not always included with the loaves in the various accounts of the “Feeding of the Five Thousand” mentioned in the New Testament gospels and other sources.
And far more than just this one example of fishes being added to the loaves in Second Century manuscripts, textual variants with New Testament manuscripts extend to scores and scores of passages deep into the Second Century and beyond according to honest scholarship.
“John 21 is the twenty-first and final chapter of the Gospel of John in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. It contains an account of a post-crucifixion appearance in Galilee, which the text describes as the third time Jesus had appeared to his disciples. In the course of this chapter, there is a miraculous catch of 153 fish, the confirmation of Peter’s love for Jesus, a foretelling of Peter’s death, and a comment about the beloved disciple’s future… According to Helmut Koester (2000), similar to the Pericope Adulterae, John 21:1–25, though present in all extant manuscripts, is also widely recognized as a later addition. A redactor is thought by some to have later added some text to the original author’s work.” (Wikipedia entry for John 21)
James, the brother of the Lord, “did not partake of animal flesh.” The Apostle Thomas: “He continually fasts and prays, and abstaining from the eating of flesh…” “…The Apostle Matthew partook of seeds, and nuts, hard-shelled fruits, and vegetables, without flesh.”
Peter: “Then Peter answered: ‘To do anything for pleasure, not for the sake of necessity, is to sin and therefore I earnestly entreat you to abstain from all animal food, in the hope that by this you may be able to retain your self-restraint, and not to be overpowered by the allurements of pleasure. For in the beginning, the eating of flesh was unknown until after the flood, when, against their will, men were compelled to use the flesh of animals, because all things that were planted had been destroyed by the waters… But let no one think that by abstinence from things offered to idols he will fulfill the law. For what commands us to keep ourselves from idolatry also teaches us that we should eat only of the fruits of trees and seeds and plants, and abstain from all animal food, and from all injury of animals; and with regard to our food, that it should be purely vegetable.’” (Why God Has Forbidden Certain Foods, Book of the Clementine Homilies)
Peter said, “I live on olives and bread, to which I rarely only add vegetables…” “The unnatural eating of flesh meats is as polluting as the heathen worship of devils…” (Peter, Clementine Homilies)
We even get to directly hear from several of those Apostles in various early Christian writings: gospels, acts, revelations, spiritual discourses, homilies, and letters of Peter, James, John, Thomas, Bartholomew, Barnabas, The Teaching of the Twelve, etc.
In the Ebionite scriptures of the early church, the followers of Jesus, “the faith once delivered to the saints”, as it is said in the Book of Jude, there are no fish stories of young disciples of Jesus being involved in eating fish. In the Ebionite scriptures of the Jesus movement there are no accounts of Jesus eating fish or miracles of multitudes being fed fish. There are no descriptions of Jesus consuming the flesh of any animal. Rather, those contain sayings of Jesus condemning the eating of meat.
