Is it okay for a U.S. christian to own a liquor store?

[1Reformedman]

So you believe that there is a liquor store out there that has never gotten one person drunk before?

No liquor store has EVER made anyone get drunk. Getting drunk is the drunkard's choice.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I know how wine is made. One of my family members used to make wine when I was younger. Again, grapes do not intoxicate people if they eat them. Sure, they can try to make alcohol out of the grapes, but they have to intentionally set out to do that. Grapes does not equal instant intoxication. Alcoholic beverages (like hard liquor) leads to instant intoxication if consumed. A glass of 151 can lead a light weight person to be drunk right away. They may not even be aware of it, and they are drunk. Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Legalists will not inherit the Kingdom of God either.

 

[1Reformedman]

Only the alcoholic substance can lead others into sin by what it is. The natural foods do not lead a person to fall into drunkenness. Only the alcohol does that.

and only the alcoholic is to blame for getting drunk. Not the guy he bought the booze from unless of course he sold someone boose and he knew he was drunk when he sold it to him. That is a legal issue and totally different from what we are talking about here.

 

[1Reformedman]

I know how wine is made. One of my family members used to make wine when I was younger. Again, grapes do not intoxicate people if they eat them. Sure, they can try to make alcohol out of the grapes, but they have to intentionally set out to do that. Grapes does not equal instant intoxication. Alcoholic beverages (like hard liquor) leads to instant intoxication if consumed. A glass of 151 can lead a light weight person to be drunk right away. They may not even be aware of it, and they are drunk. Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Being a drunkard is a state of mind, something continuous not a one or two-time deal. If it were more automatic like you're trying to push then Noah would not have been considered who he was considered by God.

 

[SkyWriting]

No one whom God didnt choose to save will enter heaven so what is your point? God controls who goes to heaven not humans.

People do choose gluttony.

Proverbs 23:2
And put a knife to your throat if you are given to appetite.

Proverbs 23:20-21
Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.

Calories in Hardee's Charbroiled 2/3 lb. Monster Thickburger

 

[1Reformedman]

People do choose gluttony.

Proverbs 23:2
And put a knife to your throat if you are given to appetite.

Did I say they didn't choose it? Your reply sounds like a straw man argument to me. All addicts choose to be addicts. They don't initially set out to be an addict but their continued choosing to abuse of the substance brings about the addictions.

 

[RaymondG]

No, I would not feel bad about selling the weapon. He chose to use his legally bought weapon to go out and commit a crime. That's on him not on me. If I knew the person was going to do so I wouldn't sell him the weapon.

I understand you feel this way......However, can you understand that some would feel different? And could you respect this feelings as much that you desire your own to be respected?

You say, had you known that one was going to commit murder, you would not sell the weapon.....are you, then, an advocate of trying to know the intentions of the buyer before selling the drink? Would you refrain from selling to one who appears to have already had a few drink......or to those who buys in excess? Is this a practice you would encourage christian store owners to do?

Would you say the same about selling a car to someone who goes out and runs someone over with it 6 weeks after you sold the car because he chose to get drunk and drive it? IF you would then you are putting a more onerous burden on yourself than you should.

We are all different and have different makeups which should be equally respected. I have sold cars and have been concerned about whether or not the buyer would be responsible with it. This was my main concern......not making money off the sale. Had these people been seriously injured within a short time of buying....I would feel more than remorse.... I would feel that I should not have sold the car to them...... This feeling diminishes to non after time has passed.......which I expect would be the same for one who sold a drink.......If you bought a drink from me a year ago and dies today from alcohol poison.... I would not link the purchase from me to the poisoning.

Some people cant sell a knife, without feeling partially responsible if it were used to cause harm.....For those, the knife selling business is not for them. For people like you, who can sell with no regard for any negative uses of the product you sell, it is given you the ability to sell these necessary items.

To each their own. No one should be made to feel lesser or more for their current moral makeup.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I've been in many liquor stores yet have never been drunk, nor do I have a desire to be.......For I like being in control of myself. Are you saying that I've just been lucky, and one day my luck will run out?......and when it does, I will have the store to blame for it?

Also, what do you think of churches who server real wine during communion....are they wrong and in support of getting drunk?

Your missing the point. It is a fact that the liquor store you been in has led others to be drunk by the liquor they sell. There is not a liquor store on the planet that has not led others to get drunk by the alcohol that they sell.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No liquor store has EVER made anyone get drunk. Getting drunk is the drunkard's choice.

But the liquor store owner provides the very substance by which they sin by. They will be held accountable to God by providing the sin that so easily leads others into (unless they repent and stop being a liquor store owner).

 

[SkyWriting]

Is this a practice you would encourage christian store owners to do?

We are to follow our heart and not the heart of other people.

Jeremiah 31
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts.

Fat around heart may cause irregular heartbeat -- ScienceDaily

 

[SkyWriting]

But the liquor store owner provides the very substance by which they sin by. They will be held accountable to God by providing the sin that so easily leads others into (unless they repent and stop being a liquor store owner).

More people die from obesity. Alcohol is number 3.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Being a drunkard is a state of mind, something continuous not a one or two-time deal. If it were more automatic like you're trying to push then Noah would not have been considered who he was considered by God.

Noah paid a high price for his drunkenness.

Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

Lot also paid a high price for his drunkenness, as well.
God's people may stumble into sin, but they do not stay down in their sin.
The man of God will overcome the darkness.

 

[1Reformedman]

I understand you feel this way......However, can you understand that some would feel different? And could you respect this feelings as much that you desire your own to be respected?

You say, had you known that one was going to commit murder, you would not sell the weapon.....are you, then, an advocate of trying to know the intentions of the buyer before selling the drink? Would you refrain from selling to one who appears to have already had a few drink......or to those who buys in excess? Is this a practice you would encourage christian store owners to do?


We are all different and have different makeups which should be equally respected. I have sold cars and have been concerned about whether or not the buyer would be responsible with it. This was my main concern......not making money off the sale. Had these people been seriously injured within a short time of buying....I would feel more than remorse.... I would feel that I should not have sold the car to them...... This feeling diminishes to non after time has passed.......which I expect would be the same for one who sold a drink.......If you bought a drink from me a year ago and dies today from alcohol poison.... I would not link the purchase from me to the poisoning.

Some people cant sell a knife, without feeling partially responsible if it were used to cause harm.....For those, the knife selling business is not for them. For people like you, who can sell with no regard for any negative uses of the product you sell, it is given you the ability to sell these necessary items.

To each their own. No one should be made to feel lesser or more for their current moral makeup.

I refuse to allow satan to try to sift me as wheat. I dont believe in taking on a more onerous burden. I don't see how such a thing could be spiritually healthy to go around worrying about what you have no control over, specifically the decisions and actions of others.

 

[RaymondG]

Can you show that I'm to blame for the drinker's action of drinking excessively just because he bought a bottle of booze from my store? No, you can't and Im not letting you or anyone else blame me for another's personal flawed and finite choices.

If you read my post from pages ago (quoted below for convenience) you would see that you are blinded by your own lack of desire to respect any view you believe different from your own. I can understand and respect anothers opinion, without agreeing with it. Are you able to do the same?

I've been in many liquor stores yet have never been drunk, nor do I have a desire to be.......For I like being in control of myself. Are you saying that I've just been lucky, and one day my luck will run out?......and when it does, I will have the store to blame for it?

Also, what do you think of churches who server real wine during communion....are they wrong and in support of getting drunk?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

More people die from obesity. Alcohol is number 3.

Nobody kills other people in a car accident generally by food consumption. Alcohol and driving leads to tons of deaths each year. Alcohol has destroyed many families. Alcohol leads to unwanted pregnancies, and fornication, etc.; Food really does not do that. A person who is a light weight can sin by just one glass of hard liquor because they get drunk off one glass of hard liquor. Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[1Reformedman]

But the liquor store owner provides the very substance by which they sin by. They will be held accountable to God by providing the sin that so easily leads others into (unless they repent and stop being a liquor store owner).

So what? The person chose to go buy the product and then he chose to sin by excessively consuming it. He wasn't forced to come into my store, he wasnt forced to buy anything from my store, nor was he forced by me to get drunk. His sin is his problem, not mine. Alcohol is sold in many different places so by your logic no one should own any business that sells anything that any person could use to sin. Personal choice causes one to sin.

 

[RaymondG]

I refuse to allow satan to try to sift me as wheat. I dont believe in taking on a more onerous burden. I don't see how such a thing could be spiritually healthy to go around worrying about what you have no control over, specifically the decisions and actions of others.

You are not your brother's keeper.....and I do not aim to convince you otherwise....nor do I see any fault in it. Thanks for the conversation.

 

[RaymondG]

Your missing the point. It is a fact that the liquor store you been in has led others to be drunk by the liquor they sell. There is not a liquor store on the planet that has not led others to get drunk by the alcohol that they sell.

You already responded to this post, after which i gave no rebuttal. This was my last post to you:

Do you honestly believe that there is any business out there, religious or otherwise, that can claim that no one was ever able and will never be able to commit sin as a result of what they were offering?

 

[1Reformedman]

Noah paid a high price for his drunkenness.

Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

Lot also paid a high price for his drunkenness, as well.
God's people may stumble into sin, but they do not stay down in their sin.
The man of God will overcome the darkness.

The bible records ONE instance of his being drunk and many folks try to say that he was a raging alcoholic. The bible doesn't support such a thing. Nor does the bible say he wouldn't be saved because of that single instance of being drunken. The recompense of an single error is one thing but the idea that you'd lose salvation for it is quite another nor is it biblical.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

So what? The person chose to go buy the product and then he chose to sin by excessively consuming it. He wasn't forced to come into my store, he wasnt forced to buy anything from my store, nor was he forced by me to get drunk. His sin is his problem, not mine. Alcohol is sold in many different places so by your logic no one should own any business that sells anything that any person could use to sin. Personal choice causes one to sin.

I'm not sure it possible to reason with a person who thinks that Jesus created grape juice for a wedding feast, do you?