A simple fix for the Transgender issue.

[Ken-1122]

Can I suggest you do some reading on yuans gender people and gender dysphoria? There are lots of resources out there.

I have and the questions I have are never answered. Perhaps you can answer them.

 

[Ken-1122]

It is the same problem you would have if you woke up one day with the body of a woman, but still felt that you are a man.

No, there has never been a single case when a person spent his entire life with male sex organs then went to sleep and woke up with female sex organs without surgery. So if such a miracle were to happen, it would not be the same.

 

[Ken-1122]

But their whole point is that you’re not seeing someone’s sex when you observe their overall “look,” you’re seeing their gender. I mean unless you’ve seen their genitals I don’t know why they’d expect you to know their biological sex, especially if their gender expression is contradictory or androgynous.

Gender is about the social roles associated with the sex of a person.

Sex and gender distinction - Wikipedia

When I look at a woman, I don't assume any type of role for her, I see her biology, but the role she is supposed to play in life because she is female is not something I assume.

 

[Ken-1122]

What the heck are you talking about now? What laws? There's no laws regarding what pronouns are used where.

In Canada it’s considered a hate crime to use the wrong pronouns when describing someone
Canadians Could Face Hate Crimes Over Using The Wrong Gender Pronouns

In Virginia a teacher was fired for using the wrong pronoun.
Teacher Fired for Using Correct Gender Pronouns

Then this guy, takes his clothes off in the girls restroom in a park not far from where I live, and is allowed to do it because of our state transgender laws.
Man strips in front of girls in locker room, says transgender law allows it

Then of course the Transgender law passed by Obama
Obama: Let Transgender Students Use Bathroom They Want

I’ve heard some of the schools in my area the girls feel a need to get another girl to act as a guard in front of the door to keep boys from entering while her friend does her business. I find this unacceptable; do you?

So what? Wearing clothes is a social construct. Not wearing a tie over a jumper is a social construct. Eating with implements is a social construct. Our lives are dominated by them. Also, what the heck does that have to do with anything?

Those social constructs aren’t offending anybody. The social construct that allows men access to the women's public restroom and shower facility does.

No, you think it's better to recognise people on what you think they look like. You said as much a few posts ago, here, let me remind you:

Unless you talk to them, how else are you supposed to recognize people?

Ahh, so it's actually all about the toilets. Thought that might be the case. How does calling someone he or she affect which toilet they use? Or are you putting your hand up for toilet police as well as pronoun police?

Not just the toilets, the shower facilities as well.

Then we throw away 4000 years of social interaction. How very doubleplusgood of you.

How does identifying men and women biologically throw away 4000 years of social interaction? Please explain that one.

Sure, but for as long as the way you see it involves direct emotional harm to vulnerable members of our society, I'll continue to call you on it.

And when your way involves direct emotional harm to vulnerable members of our society like school girls who are afraid to use the restroom at school, I will call you on it as well.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Why would I do something like that? My suggestion is not going to stop people from being rude, nothing can do that

So your suggestion regarding how to address people is somewhat pointless. If you’re going to abide by what people refer to themselves as, then your suggestion is just initially guessing at what someone’s sex is.

Which is what everyone does anyway.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I’ve heard some of the schools in my area the girls feel a need to get another girl to act as a guard in front of the door to keep boys from entering while her friend does her business. I find this unacceptable; do you?

Yes, I find it unacceptable that we’re teaching girls to think that trans women are monsters, terrifying them in the process.

Since Christians seem to be the biggest offending group, we’ll need to take steps to make sure they’re never left alone with impressionable people, so that our young people grow up without this trauma...

 

[Ken-1122]

So your suggestion regarding how to address people is somewhat pointless. If you’re going to abide by what people refer to themselves as, then your suggestion is just initially guessing at what someone’s sex is.

Which is what everyone does anyway.

How people see themselves or want to be addressed isn't the issue; the solution I suggested is about when the law gets involved.

 

[Ken-1122]

Yes, I find it unacceptable that we’re teaching girls to think that trans women are monsters, terrifying them in the process.

The girls have a problem with boys in their restrooms. Boys know they can just go in and nobody is allowed to say anything.

 

[Sparagmos]

What does that mean? I've never had that explained to me; what does it mean to feel like a man, or to feel like a woman?

Why don’t you ask a transgender person or do some research? I already said imagine waking up tomorrow and having the body of the opposite sex but nothing else has changed. You would feel like a man in a woman’s body.

 

[Tanj]

In Canada it’s considered a hate crime to use the wrong pronouns when describing someone
Canadians Could Face Hate Crimes Over Using The Wrong Gender Pronouns

Well, no, the dailycaller quoting lifesite news made that garbage up, and even then they weaseled a "could" into it. I wouldn't use either to line a parrot's cage.

In Virginia a teacher was fired for using the wrong pronoun.
Teacher Fired for Using Correct Gender Pronouns

Again no, you really should stop using these muck dwelling "news" sites, you'll feel much better. What actually happened was:
"Mr. Vlaming was asked repeatedly, over several weeks and by multiple administrators, to address a student by the pronouns with which this student identifies. The issue before us was not one mistaken slip of the tongue. Mr. Vlaming consistently refused to comply going forward — including in a statement made at the hearing — a willful violation of school board policy."

Then this guy, takes his clothes off in the girls restroom in a park not far from where I live, and is allowed to do it because of our state transgender laws.
Man strips in front of girls in locker room, says transgender law allows it

I'm really going to need a shower after all these dips into lifesitenews, but once again, not a single shred of evidence that any of this is some kind of attemot by men to do...something...to women in their toilets.

Then of course the Transgender law passed by Obama
Obama: Let Transgender Students Use Bathroom They Want

Good. That's exactly how the law should be.

I’ve heard some of the schools in my area the girls feel a need to get another girl to act as a guard in front of the door to keep boys from entering while her friend does her business. I find this unacceptable; do you?

I've heard unicorns like to eat gnomes at the bottom of my garden. I find this completely unevidenced hearsay unacceptable.. Do you?. As an aside, why don't the business rooms have locks like every single toilet cubicle everywhere else in existence?

Those social constructs aren’t offending anybody. The social construct that allows men access to the women's public restroom and shower facility does.

So what, it's my fault it took you 4 pages if using he/she to get to your toilet fetish?

 

[Sparagmos]

No, there has never been a single case when a person spent his entire life with male sex organs then went to sleep and woke up with female sex organs without surgery. So if such a miracle were to happen, it would not be the same.

That’s how it would feel.

 

[Sparagmos]

I have and the questions I have are never answered. Perhaps you can answer them.

What have you read?

 

[Ken-1122]

Why don’t you ask a transgender person or do some research? I already said imagine waking up tomorrow and having the body of the opposite sex but nothing else has changed. You would feel like a man in a woman’s body.

First of all I am a man not because of how I feel, I am a man because of my biology. If I were had a womans biology but felt exactly as I do now, I would consider myself a woman; not a man in a woman's body, a woman (a lesbian woman)
To say I feel like a man suggests there is a feeling that only men feel that women do not, and there are biological women who have this feeling. I don't think such a feeling exists. But I could be wrong; if so please explain this feeling that only men have that women do not.

 

[Ken-1122]

That’s how it would feel.

You aren't getting it; I would freak out because my body has changed! Not because I am a biological woman.

 

[Ken-1122]

What have you read?

Mostly opinion pages, discussion boards, and on line articles.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

How people see themselves or want to be addressed isn't the issue; the solution I suggested is about when the law gets involved.

Your OP specifically mentions pronouns. So apparently it is part of the issue.

 

[Sparagmos]

First of all I am a man not because of how I feel, I am a man because of my biology. If I were had a womans biology but felt exactly as I do now, I would consider myself a woman; not a man in a woman's body, a woman (a lesbian woman)
To say I feel like a man suggests there is a feeling that only men feel that women do not, and there are biological women who have this feeling. I don't think such a feeling exists. But I could be wrong; if so please explain this feeling that only men have that women do not.

Look, I’m not playing games with you. You’re not remotely interested in learning or empathy. Gender dysphoria is real, it’s a medical term. Go read a book.

 

[Sparagmos]

Mostly opinion pages, discussion boards, and on line articles.

Such as?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

The girls have a problem with boys in their restrooms. Boys know they can just go in and nobody is allowed to say anything.

I’m not going to believe that without some evidence to back that up.

Cisgender men sneaking into restrooms dressed as women is an incredibly rare occurrence.

Anti-Trans 'Bathroom Bills' Are Based On Lies. Here's The Research To Show It. | HuffPost

 

[Ken-1122]

Well, no, the dailycaller quoting lifesite news made that garbage up, and even then they weaseled a "could" into it. I wouldn't use either to line a parrot's cage.

Are you saying Bill C-16 does not exist?
Bill C-16 | openparliament.ca

Again no, you really should stop using these muck dwelling "news" sites, you'll feel much better. What actually happened was:
"Mr. Vlaming was asked repeatedly, over several weeks and by multiple administrators, to address a student by the pronouns with which this student identifies. The issue before us was not one mistaken slip of the tongue. Mr. Vlaming consistently refused to comply going forward — including in a statement made at the hearing — a willful violation of school board policy."

How is this different than what I said? Again; I said a teacher was fired for using the wrong pronoun. Nothing you said refutes what I said.

I'm really going to need a shower after all these dips into lifesitenews, but once again, not a single shred of evidence that any of this is some kind of attemot by men to do...something...to women in their toilets.

I said nothing about men attempting to do something to women in their toilets. C’mon; address what I said and quit making stuff up.

Good. That's exactly how the law should be.

I disagree, that’s why I suggested an alternative when it comes to the law getting involved.

So what, it's my fault it took you 4 pages if using he/she to get to your toilet fetish?

It’s the guys with the Toilet fetish who like this law. Wait a minute; you like this law! Hummm……