Col 2:16 is about not judging others

[BobRyan]

In Rev 12 we see the work of the "Accuser of the brethren".
In Matt 7 (pre-cross -- and law in full effect) Christ condemns judging others.

In Col 2:16 we have this -
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

An example of NOT condemning eating OR drinking or remembering God's Ten-Commandment creation-Sabbath day to keep it holy. Rather Col 2 condemns the "commandments of men" - (as is so carefully avoided in the quotes we often see from Col 2)

Col 2 is 0pposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command. - so it is opposed to 'making stuff up' - via "man-made tradition"

As is Christ against it --

GOD speaks for God and HE already spoke to this point of changing His Law via church tradition. As we see in Mark 7:6-13

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it is shown via "Sola Scriptura" testing that it is traditions and "doctrines of men" that are at odds with scripture

so on this same thread ...

Who but the pro law people are doing this very thing? Has anyone condemned you for trying to keep or as you will claim keeping the Sabbath?

You can't be serious.

Perhaps a short "summary" to refresh short term memory.
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Comments on this same thread...

You don't obey the Sabbath, .

Do you say that as the "Accuser of the brethren" in Rev 12 - or do you have some "other source"??

Perhaps most, at least some, of us give lip service to that idea. However, is there a particular reason you don't keep all of God's commandments?

bbbbbbb said: ↑
It seems to me that you and your SDA brethren are very busy transgressing the Law day in and day out, unless you have utterly deceived yourselves into believing that the LAW consists of only ten select commandments. Even then, you transgress the fourth commandment egregiously.

What a pack of accusations "in place of" Bible study.

Here is some Bible study.

Rev 12
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,
“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. 12 For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.”

13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. 17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest (remnant) of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

disciple1 said: ↑
You don't obey the Sabbath.

And then of course we have "you".

I'd love to respond to this false statement indicating your claim to be one of the brethren, but can't without having my post removed.

bugkiller said: ↑
You don't fool us for a split NYC second. You're not in compliance with the law. If you keep any part of it you're obligated to all of it per Gal 5:3.

And we all would agree to this -- the rebellious child could easily say to his/her parents "first you must be perfect then you may tell me to Honor my Father and Mother as God instructed in the Bible" -- but of course -- that is "old news"

 

[BobRyan]

And you sin more than I do anyway.
Micah chapter 6
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly[a] with your God.

1. Micah 6 is in the OT - are you back to allowing the Word of God to have authority??

2. Your efforts to play the Rev 12 role of "accuser of the brethren" -- noted.

And it helps with the Col 2:16 discussion because we "see" in real life just how that sort of "accusation" comes about.

And here one of the best examples --

I'd love to respond to this false statement indicating your claim to be one of the brethren, but can't without having my post removed.

 

[bugkiller]

In Rev 12 we see the work of the "Accuser of the brethren".

I'd love to respond to this false statement indicating your claim to be one of the brethren, but can't without having my post removed.

In Matt 7 (pre-cross -- and law in full effect) Christ condemns judging others.

So why are you doing this very thing post after post?

In Col 2:16 we have this -

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Are you now saying or implying the 7th day Sabbath isn't a holyday?

An example of NOT condemning eating OR drinking or remembering God's Ten-Commandment creation-Sabbath day to keep it holy. Rather Col 2 condemns the "commandments of men" - (as is so carefully avoided in the quotes we often see from Col 2)

Is your out the fact the word women isn't found in the passage?

Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

Is it sin to not keep the 7th day Sabbath under the NC? If so why aren't you in compliance with Ex 20:8-11?

You can't be serious.

Perhaps a short "summary" to refresh short term memory.

Why yes I'm serious. Its a fact you're not in compliance with Ex 20:8-11. Therefore its not an accusation. Its a statement of pure fact.

=============================================
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Do you say that as the "Accuser of the brethren" in Rev 12 - or do you have some "other source"??

Please read above response to this question.

And then of course we have "you".

Submit proof otherwise by answering our queries with a yes or no on the subject. No pleading the 5th. That won't work on judgment day either.

And we all would agree to this -- the rebellious child could easily say to his/her parents "first you must be perfect then you may tell me to Honor my Father and Mother as God instructed in the Bible" -- but of course -- that is "old news"

So what should I do, quote you Scripture about the log and supposed splinter?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
In Rev 12 we see the work of the "Accuser of the brethren".

Who but the pro law people are doing this very thing? Has anyone condemned you for trying to keep or as you will claim keeping the Sabbath?

You can't be serious.

here we have one of the best examples --

I'd love to respond to this false statement indicating your claim to be one of the brethren, but can't without having my post removed.

And it gets better

Its a fact you're not in compliance with Ex 20:8-11. Therefore its not an accusation. Its a statement of pure fact

 

[BABerean2]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.





Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 

[SAAN]

IN CONTEXT

Colossians 2:8-17
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.


11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.


Are the commands of God philosophy or empty deceit?
Are the commands of God tradition of men, basic principles of the world?
Are the commands of God not according to Christ?


It is extremely clear the issue in Colossians is, Paul is talking to new converts to the faith that used to be pagans and are now following Christ, so in their pagan society he is telling them NOT to let anyone judge them for keeping the commands of God like new moons, the Sabbath or Feast Days. They are all a shadow of what is to come in Christ.

HE IS NOT saying dont let anyone judge you for breaking the commands of God, like many on here are teaching.

 

[Bob S]

IN CONTEXT

Colossians 2:8-17
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.


11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Are the commands of God philosophy or empty deceit?
Are the commands of God tradition of men, basic principles of the world?
Are the commands of God not according to Christ?

No, but you are making the assumption that it is God's old covenant ritual laws are part of the Christian's duty and pagans were telling the Colossian Christians they didn't have to observe OC ritual laws.

I contend it was the Essene Jews that were persuading the Colossians to observe OC rituals and Paul told them not to fall for their rules. What are you going to do with Paul's further comment in verse 17 that all those rituals were shadows of the reality, Jesus? That does not fit into your theory Saan.

The NLT reads like this: 16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.

It is extremely clear

Clear as mud.

the issue in Colossians is, Paul is talking to new converts to the faith that used to be pagans and are now following Christ, so in their pagan society he is telling them NOT to let anyone judge them for keeping the commands of God like new moons, the Sabbath or Feast Days. They are all a shadow of what is to come in Christ.

Well, that is your theory and you are free to hold it as the truth. After reading Gal 3 and 4 Paul would e lying someplace using your theory. Yes, Paul would be contradicting himself because in many other places he contend that the law with its rituals ended at the Cross. Those rituals were made for Israel, why would Colossian Gentiles need or want to observe laws especially made for another nation. It really does not make any sense does it?

HE IS NOT saying dont let anyone judge you for breaking the commands of God, like many on here are teaching.

No he wasn't because those laws God gave only to Israel ended when the covenant came to an end. It came to an end when Jesus uttered the words "it is finished". He came and fulfilled the OC law and ushered in the new covenant which includes not only Jews but all mankind, a better covenant not like the one He gave to Israel.

 

[bugkiller]

You can't be serious.

here we have one of the best examples --



And it gets better

You don't wish to discuss it because its true.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

IN CONTEXT

Colossians 2:8-17
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.


11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.


Are the commands of God philosophy or empty deceit?
Are the commands of God tradition of men, basic principles of the world?
Are the commands of God not according to Christ?

Which one are you talking about and to whom are they given?

It is extremely clear the issue in Colossians is, Paul is talking to new converts to the faith that used to be pagans and are now following Christ, so in their pagan society he is telling them NOT to let anyone judge them for keeping the commands of God like new moons, the Sabbath or Feast Days. They are all a shadow of what is to come in Christ.

OK I'll buy that Paul is talking to new converts. I wont buy that Paul is talking exclusively to has been pagans. The whole book of Galatians is dedicated to the law.

HE IS NOT saying dont let anyone judge you for breaking the commands of God, like many on here are teaching.

You know that Paul can't be pinned exclusively either way. You know very well Paul is and was more less battling the Judaizers his entire ministry. Paul is including the Jewish holydays. This has been shown time and again in this forum.

bugkiller

 

[BABerean2]

Paul is and was more less battling the Judaizers his entire ministry.

So are we.

Reformed Covenant Theologians

RCC

SDA

Hebrew Roots

Have all failed to "cast out" the Sinai covenant of bondage and embrace the New Covenant, instead.

Somehow, they are able to ignore Galatians chapters 3 and 4 and the "yoke" in Acts chapter 15.

.

 

[Bob S]

Saan and all of you that are trying to spread Torah observance, am I obligated by God to keep anything that is a shadow? Are shadows realities? What was it that made Torah laws shadows. How can you all gloss over all the evidence against Torah observance found in the New Testament and still cling to observing Torah. Do you really have to do old covenant rituals to be saved? Isn't Jesus enough? Why is it you all continue to cling to the old covenant that has been fulfilled and replaced by Jesus new and better covenant of love and grace? I believe you all have been brainwashed by some well intentioned loving cult group that has fed you all this stuff that you have been regurgitating to us on this forum.

Only by the grace of Jesus can I write what I have written because I too was once held captive in a similar situation as you all are being held captive. I pray that you will study the Word and be set free from the bondage or ritual law.

 

[SAAN]

No, but you are making the assumption that it is God's old covenant ritual laws are part of the Christian's duty and pagans were telling the Colossian Christians they didn't have to observe OC ritual laws.

I contend it was the Essene Jews that were persuading the Colossians to observe OC rituals and Paul told them not to fall for their rules. What are you going to do with Paul's further comment in verse 17 that all those rituals were shadows of the reality, Jesus? That does not fit into your theory Saan.

The NLT reads like this: 16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.



Clear as mud.


Well, that is your theory and you are free to hold it as the truth. After reading Gal 3 and 4 Paul would e lying someplace using your theory. Yes, Paul would be contradicting himself because in many other places he contend that the law with its rituals ended at the Cross. Those rituals were made for Israel, why would Colossian Gentiles need or want to observe laws especially made for another nation. It really does not make any sense does it?


No he wasn't because those laws God gave only to Israel ended when the covenant came to an end. It came to an end when Jesus uttered the words "it is finished". He came and fulfilled the OC law and ushered in the new covenant which includes not only Jews but all mankind, a better covenant not like the one He gave to Israel.

I like how you had to find a modern day translation to fit your argument. Go back to original versions where is is more clear he is saying to not let anyone judge you for keep them, NOT for ignoring them.

 

[SAAN]

Saan and all of you that are trying to spread Torah observance, am I obligated by God to keep anything that is a shadow? Are shadows realities? What was it that made Torah laws shadows. How can you all gloss over all the evidence against Torah observance found in the New Testament and still cling to observing Torah. Do you really have to do old covenant rituals to be saved? Isn't Jesus enough? Why is it you all continue to cling to the old covenant that has been fulfilled and replaced by Jesus new and better covenant of love and grace? I believe you all have been brainwashed by some well intentioned loving cult group that has fed you all this stuff that you have been regurgitating to us on this forum.

Only by the grace of Jesus can I write what I have written because I too was once held captive in a similar situation as you all are being held captive. I pray that you will study the Word and be set free from the bondage or ritual law.

What many on here are trying to spread is that the Torah observance you detest, is the same commands written in the New Testament.

Me and others on here are not part of a cult or been influenced by one, what we are are one who taken taken off the modern day Christian goggles that blind you from seeing the reality of the bible and following theology school teaching as truth over the bible.

You speak against the Torah and always mention the New Covenant, when the laws of the New Covenant are pulled right from the OT. We all agree we are under a New covenant that was spoken of in Jer 31 & Hebrews 8. It has also been made extremely clear that not everything in the Torah applies since the animals sacrifices were replaced by the blood of Christ, there is no temple or nation of Israel government set up, so those commands dont apply either. Just about everything else regards morality still applies.


Old Covenant was written on stones with the blood of animals covering your sins.
New Covenant is written on your heart with the blood of Christ covering your sins.


IF it is impossible to keep Gods commands, why did God say repeatedly to keep his commands. God is not expecting perfection out of us, we will sin and the blood of Christ covers your sins now.

You keep thinking of them as practicing rituals, but they were done in the OT and NT. How is Christians celebrating Easter & Christmas, going to church every Sunday, taking communion any different of a ritual than biblical days of keeping the Sabbath & Feast Days?


Spreading the word is the same as Jesus did, repent of your sins and follow the commands of God. Sin is defined as breaking the commandments, which man kind does like crazy and doesn't repent. This is where believers can show them purpose of Jesus and a relationship with him.

Grace is what God gives you for breaking his law. You cant be under the law unless you are breaking it and not repenting.

 

[bugkiller]

I like how you had to find a modern day translation to fit your argument. Go back to original versions where is is more clear he is saying to not let anyone judge you for keep them, NOT for ignoring them.

It means in regard to any way you keep or don't keep them.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

What many on here are trying to spread is that the Torah observance you detest, is the same commands written in the New Testament.

Me and others on here are not part of a cult or been influenced by one, what we are are one who taken taken off the modern day Christian goggles that blind you from seeing the reality of the bible and following theology school teaching as truth over the bible.

You speak against the Torah and always mention the New Covenant, when the laws of the New Covenant are pulled right from the OT. We all agree we are under a New covenant that was spoken of in Jer 31 & Hebrews 8. It has also been made extremely clear that not everything in the Torah applies since the animals sacrifices were replaced by the blood of Christ, there is no temple or nation of Israel government set up, so those commands dont apply either. Just about everything else regards morality still applies.


Old Covenant was written on stones with the blood of animals covering your sins.
New Covenant is written on your heart with the blood of Christ covering your sins.


IF it is impossible to keep Gods commands, why did God say repeatedly to keep his commands. God is not expecting perfection out of us, we will sin and the blood of Christ covers your sins now.

You keep thinking of them as practicing rituals, but they were done in the OT and NT. How is Christians celebrating Easter & Christmas, going to church every Sunday, taking communion any different of a ritual than biblical days of keeping the Sabbath & Feast Days?


Spreading the word is the same as Jesus did, repent of your sins and follow the commands of God. Sin is defined as breaking the commandments, which man kind does like crazy and doesn't repent. This is where believers can show them purpose of Jesus and a relationship with him.

Grace is what God gives you for breaking his law. You cant be under the law unless you are breaking it and not repenting.

Saan we (Christians) don't have a revised covenant, we have a new covenant. You confuse moral issues with only disobedience to the law. This simply isn't so because sin was before the law and its jurisdiction is past. You act like the law invented sin.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

Hi Saan, have you ever read all of the 613 laws of the torah? There are laws that Christians in United States could not possibly follow. How could any thinking person believe that Christians are under Torah? All you are doing is parroting some guru that has you convinced of something you cannot possibly do. Why would you ask me to do something that you cannot possibly do?

We are told in scripture that the new covenant is not like the old one. Thank God for that.

I could write all the ridiculous laws (ridiculous for Christians), but I will let you find them here:
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm Read them and then tell me we are under Torah. No my friend, we are not under the laws given only to Israel and lasted until God could no longer tolerate Israels disregard of them. Jesus kept those laws and told us that we are to keep His laws, love God and love others as He loves us. John in 1jn 3:19-24 confirms what Jesus commanded His followers to keep. I trust scripture, who are you putting your trust in?

 

[Bob S]

I like how you had to find a modern day translation to fit your argument. Go back to original versions where is is more clear he is saying to not let anyone judge you for keep them, NOT for ignoring them.

What are the original versions Saan? The NLT is correct because it is in harmony with 2Cor 3:7-11, Gal 3 and 4, Acts15, Romans, and 1Jn 3 to name a few. I might remind you that 2Cor 3 tells us the 10 commandments were temporary laws. Gal 3 tells us the law (Torah) was until Jesus. Please do as Paul asks, do not judge us for not keeping shadows.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Saan, have you ever read all of the 613 laws of the torah?

And did you read the 1050 commands found in the NT??

And... "who puts the limit on God"???

As for Col 2 -- condemning the traditions and doctrines of man - and upholding the Word of God --

Col 2 is opposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

 

[SAAN]

Hi Saan, have you ever read all of the 613 laws of the torah? There are laws that Christians in United States could not possibly follow. How could any thinking person believe that Christians are under Torah? All you are doing is parroting some guru that has you convinced of something you cannot possibly do. Why would you ask me to do something that you cannot possibly do?

We are told in scripture that the new covenant is not like the old one. Thank God for that.

I could write all the ridiculous laws (ridiculous for Christians), but I will let you find them here:
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm Read them and then tell me we are under Torah. No my friend, we are not under the laws given only to Israel and lasted until God could no longer tolerate Israels disregard of them. Jesus kept those laws and told us that we are to keep His laws, love God and love others as He loves us. John in 1jn 3:19-24 confirms what Jesus commanded His followers to keep. I trust scripture, who are you putting your trust in?

I never once said you have to keep ALL of the last as its impossible since most wont apply to you as you are not a woman, not a priest, not a king, not a farmer, there is no temple up and you are not in the land of Israel with a active government setup. Everything else pretty much still applies.

Jesus had no new laws as he came to do the fathers will, not create his own religion. He upheld his fathers commands and taught others to do so as well. He repeated the teaching of God and he said Love God and Love one another are a sum of all the commands and they can be summed up as, so a SUM is different than complete abolishment of them.


If I say stop at a stop sign, dont text while driving, dont drink and drive, stop at crosswalks, and drive on the correct side of the road....and I say Drive Safely on this is what all the other road laws hang on or can be summed up as. Does that now mean all the road laws I just explained no longer are valid because I said to Drive Safely??

 

[BobRyan]

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

The term "under the LAW" in Gal 4 -- in its most favorable light - means under the obligation of the ceremonial law apart from faith. But in general Paul uses the term with respect to condemnation under the moral of God without the Gospel benefit of salvation.

Rom 9
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

1 John 3:4 - "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" both in OT and also by NT standards

So then in Rom 6 Paul speaks about the obligation not to SIN - even though not "under the law" -- not under the condemnation of the LAW.

Rom 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered

1 john 2:1 "these things I write to you that you sin NOT"

The Covenant at Sinai with Israel included
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

And 40 years later Moses reminds them --
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

So then why is Paul associating Sinai with the old covenant in Gal 4?

Because the ceremonial law is no longer in effect.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" as compared to the ceremonial laws such as circumcision - as we see in this example from 1Cor 7:19

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In Heb 10 God says this about the animal sacrifice based ceremonial laws.

Heb 10
8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second.

We dare not delete that text.

But God never says that he takes away the moral law - rather "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- still... in the NT.

And Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment is STILL "the FIRST commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN.