AI understands the Sabbath and Col 2:16

[SabbathBlessings]

Deuteronomy 8:3 says, “He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.” This verse emphasizes God’s purpose in humbling His people: to teach dependence on Him rather than on material provision.

If you wish not to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, that's fine, no one is forcing anyone, its about choices.

 

[guevaraj]

While Hebrews 4 certainly speaks of a “rest” that remains for the people of God, the text itself points beyond the weekly Sabbath to a greater and spiritual rest found in Christ.

Brother, that is not the true message of the passage that follows, but a human tradition based on a bad translation by the KJV, which inserted Jesus into the Sabbath message in the New Testament by wrongly identifying Joshua as Jesus before David and deceptively translating the "good news" of the Sabbath as the Gospel of Jesus in the true message that follows.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. GOD ANNOUNCED THIS THROUGH DAVID MUCH LATER in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now IF JOSHUA HAD SUCCEEDED IN GIVING THEM THIS REST, GOD WOULD NOT HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT ANOTHER DAY of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

The message reveals that the Sabbath in Jerusalem falls before the seventh day of the week, as shown in the following image.

This means that Judaism observes the Sabbath correctly in Jerusalem, but incorrectly in the rest of the world, because since the time of Joshua, it was not understood that in Jerusalem the Sabbath preceded the seventh day of the week. God used this fact to prevent Israel from entering the Sabbath with the manna for forty years, forcing them to observe the true seventh day of the week near Jerusalem, where it is already too late (half a day) to enter the Sabbath that falls half a day earlier in Jerusalem.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Brother, that is not the true message of the passage that follows, but a human tradition based on a bad translation by the KJV, which inserted Jesus into the Sabbath message in the New Testament by wrongly identifying Joshua as Jesus before David and deceptively translating the "good news" of the Sabbath as the Gospel of Jesus in the true message that follows.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. GOD ANNOUNCED THIS THROUGH DAVID MUCH LATER in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now IF JOSHUA HAD SUCCEEDED IN GIVING THEM THIS REST, GOD WOULD NOT HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT ANOTHER DAY of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

The message reveals that the Sabbath in Jerusalem falls before the seventh day of the week, as shown in the following image.

This means that Judaism observes the Sabbath correctly in Jerusalem, but incorrectly in the rest of the world, because since the time of Joshua, it was not understood that in Jerusalem the Sabbath preceded the seventh day of the week. God used this fact to prevent Israel from entering the Sabbath with the manna for forty years, forcing them to observe the true seventh day of the week near Jerusalem, where it is already too late (half a day) to enter the Sabbath that falls half a day earlier in Jerusalem.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

If you cam please create your own post if you are going to take this one off topic. Thanks.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Brother, that is not the true message of the passage that follows, but a human tradition based on a bad translation by the KJV, which inserted Jesus into the Sabbath message in the New Testament by wrongly identifying Joshua as Jesus before David and deceptively translating the "good news" of the Sabbath as the Gospel of Jesus in the true message that follows.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. GOD ANNOUNCED THIS THROUGH DAVID MUCH LATER in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now IF JOSHUA HAD SUCCEEDED IN GIVING THEM THIS REST, GOD WOULD NOT HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT ANOTHER DAY of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

The message reveals that the Sabbath in Jerusalem falls before the seventh day of the week, as shown in the following image.

This means that Judaism observes the Sabbath correctly in Jerusalem, but incorrectly in the rest of the world, because since the time of Joshua, it was not understood that in Jerusalem the Sabbath preceded the seventh day of the week. God used this fact to prevent Israel from entering the Sabbath with the manna for forty years, forcing them to observe the true seventh day of the week near Jerusalem, where it is already too late (half a day) to enter the Sabbath that falls half a day earlier in Jerusalem.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

All I can say is that this is a misreading of the text. I could show you again, but you would not believe it.

 

[Mercy Shown]

If you wish not to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, that's fine, no one is forcing anyone, its about choices.

“I hear what you’re saying, but I would gently suggest that not observing a particular practice doesn’t automatically mean someone is rejecting God’s Word. Scripture reminds us that God looks at the heart, not just outward actions (1 Sam 16:7), and that we are justified by faith, not by works of the law (Gal 2:16; Eph 2:8-9). Jesus also warns us not to judge others harshly or impose our standards as if they determine someone’s standing with God (Matthew 7:1-5). True obedience flows from trusting Christ and walking in the Spirit (Gal 5:16-18), not from following a checklist of rules.”

 

[Mercy Shown]

I am just believing what Jesus said plainly without editing Him


Mat5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

“I see the point you’re making with Matthew 5:19, and it’s important to take it seriously. At the same time, we must remember that Jesus said he came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it (Matt 5:17). The law finds its completion in Him, and through faith, it is fulfilled in us as well. Because Christ has already paid the debt the law demanded, God does not require a double payment (Romans 8:3-4; Galatians 3:24). Our response, then, is one of gratitude and faith, not of trying to earn what has already been accomplished in Him.”

Keeping reading a bit further I am pretty sure this was addressed previously it tells us what those do who are not walking in the Spirit

Rom 8:7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.



Its not what the word end means

τέλος télos, tel'-os; from a primary τέλλω téllō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

Christ is the goal of the law, not the end as he clearly stated otherwise Mat7:23 John 14:15

Its why we need to be careful isolating verses and not reconciling with Jesus.

I see what you’re saying, and it’s true that “télos” (end) can mean “goal” or “purpose” in Greek. However, in Romans 10:4, Paul explicitly says, “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” (Rom 10:4, NASB). The context makes clear that this “end” is about completion, fulfillment, and termination of the law’s role as a system of righteousness, not the cessation of the law’s moral truths.

The word “goal” does not contradict this. In fact, Christ being the goal and the end is compatible: He is the ultimate aim of the law, and at the same time, His life, death, and resurrection bring the law to its full and final purpose. The law’s requirement for justification before God—something humans could never perfectly achieve—has been fully satisfied in Him (Galatians 3:24-25). Therefore, believers are no longer under the law as a system that demands payment; Christ’s righteousness covers us (Romans 8:3-4).

Also, isolating texts like Matthew 7:23 or John 14:15 does not change the fact that obedience flows from faith in Christ, not from attempting to earn righteousness through the law. Christ fulfills the law for us, and through Him, it is fulfilled in us by the Spirit (Galatians 5:16-18). In other words, we do not reject the law’s moral guidance, but we are freed from its condemnation.

Jesus is showing that the heart is the issue why the commandments are being broken. If the inward side is fixed, it would show in our actions and the commandments would be kept just the way God said.

Why Jesus came to magnify the law, means make greater which is what He did, not end as what most sadly teach.

“I understand your point that Jesus was concerned with the heart, and I agree completely that true obedience flows from inward transformation (Matthew 5:21-48; 1 Samuel 16:7). However, I would gently clarify a few things:


First, when Paul says Christ is the end of the law for righteousness (Romans 10:4), it does not mean the law’s moral guidance is abolished or that obedience is irrelevant. It means that the law’s role as a system for earning righteousness has been completed in Christ. We are no longer trying to ‘pay a debt’ the law requires; that has been fully satisfied by Him (Galatians 3:24-25; Romans 8:3-4).


Second, it’s important not to assume that others are breaking God’s commandments based on their worship practices, such as observing Sunday instead of Saturday. Scripture never makes salvation contingent on a specific day of worship but on faith and obedience to God in the heart (Colossians 2:16-17; Romans 14:5-6).


Finally, while it’s wonderful to honor God faithfully, we must be careful about implying that our personal way of observing the Sabbath is the definitive way God requires. Jesus warned against judging others harshly for outward observance while neglecting mercy, justice, and faithfulness (Matthew 23:23-24). True obedience is heart-driven, empowered by the Spirit (Galatians 5:16-18), not defined by following a checklist of commandments.”

 

[Hentenza]

If you keep the Sabbath, it forces you to turn away from the cares of the world, like working to pay bills, and it leads you to study of God’s word and praising Him for all the blessings. Paramount is the sacrifice of Christ.

I can do the same thing if I worship on Sunday.

 

[guevaraj]

All I can say is that this is a misreading of the text. I could show you again, but you would not believe it.

Brother, I agree with you that I wouldn't believe it because your interpretation is figurative, referring to "rest" as Jesus, and mine is literal, referring to "rest" as the Sabbath. To show you the difference, I asked ChatGPT: "When both are possible, which is correct: a literal or figurative interpretation?"

ChatGPT said:​

Good question — and the answer depends on context and intent.
Here’s how to think about it:

• If a literal interpretation makes sense and fits the context, that’s usually the correct one.
  • Example: “He ran to the store.” → literally means he physically ran.
• If a literal reading seems absurd, impossible, or out of place, a figurative interpretationis probably intended.
  • Example: “He ran out of time.” → not literal; you can’t physically run out of time.

Writers, speakers, and interpreters often follow this principle:

“Take words literally unless there is a compelling reason not to.”

So, literal first, figurative if necessary — unless the context (like poetry, metaphorical writing, or symbolic speech) clearly signals otherwise.
Would you like me to explain how this applies in a specific field — for example, literature, law, or theology?

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Hentenza]

Brother, I agree with you that I wouldn't believe it because your interpretation is figurative, referring to "rest" as Jesus, and mine is literal, referring to "rest" as the Sabbath. To show you the difference, I asked ChatGPT: "When both are possible, which is correct: a literal or figurative interpretation?"

ChatGPT said:​

Good question — and the answer depends on context and intent.
Here’s how to think about it:

• If a literal interpretation makes sense and fits the context, that’s usually the correct one.
  • Example: “He ran to the store.” → literally means he physically ran.
• If a literal reading seems absurd, impossible, or out of place, a figurative interpretationis probably intended.
  • Example: “He ran out of time.” → not literal; you can’t physically run out of time.

Writers, speakers, and interpreters often follow this principle:

So, literal first, figurative if necessary — unless the context (like poetry, metaphorical writing, or symbolic speech) clearly signals otherwise.
Would you like me to explain how this applies in a specific field — for example, literature, law, or theology?

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

So then it should be simple for you to post a post crucifixion NT verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment.

 

[guevaraj]

So then it should be simple for you to post a post crucifixion NT verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment.

Brother, Jesus wants us to keep the corrected Sabbath "day", different than the human tradition of Judaism, which considers the Sabbath the seventh day of the week since Joshua, when in Jerusalem the Sabbath falls half a day before the seventh day of the week.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

It is here, in the context where the language used by God expresses its importance to Jesus, that we keep the Sabbath correctly.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. GOD ANNOUNCED THIS THROUGH DAVID MUCH LATER in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now IF JOSHUA HAD SUCCEEDED IN GIVING THEM THIS REST, GOD WOULD NOT HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT ANOTHER DAY of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[SabbathBlessings]

“I hear what you’re saying, but I would gently suggest that not observing a particular practice doesn’t automatically mean someone is rejecting God’s Word. Scripture reminds us that God looks at the heart, not just outward actions (1 Sam 16:7), and that we are justified by faith, not by works of the law (Gal 2:16; Eph 2:8-9). Jesus also warns us not to judge others harshly or impose our standards as if they determine someone’s standing with God (Matthew 7:1-5). True obedience flows from trusting Christ and walking in the Spirit (Gal 5:16-18), not from following a checklist of rules.”

I think the disconnect is what is flowing from Christ.

You seem to think from what I can tell, that Christ is not enabling us to keep His commandments, but what we feel is right or wrong.

When you say observe a particular practice, I am assuming you mean the Sabbath since that's what this thread is about, so from what I can tell you are teaching that if we are in Christ we no longer have to keep the commandments of God the way God said including this particular practice, but that's not what Jesus ever said, He taught plainly the opposite. John14:15 John15:10 Mat`5:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 12:12 Mark2:27 Mat4:4

If we are in Christ abiding in Him this is what is flowing out of us. Love to God that we want to obey Him and abide in His love because we love Him and in doing so we are keeping His commandments.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

So if we are loving Christ and abiding in Him, one is also keeping His commandments so there would be no disconnect with Christ our Savior and His Laws He asks us to keep if we love Him.

If you knew someone that was committing adultery, would you encourage them to continue in that path even though we are told sin separates us from Christ Isa 59:2 unless we have a change in heart and a change in direction, means putting away that sin. The thing is I do not think God separated the 4th commandment from the other 9 commandments, Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 James2:11 man did this, not God. So encouraging someone that they do not have to keep a particular practice that is contrary to the law of God is no different than someone committing adultery or breaking any of God's commandments.

Jesus fulfilling the law to mean we do not have to keep God's commandments as clearly Jesus stated the opposite Mat5:19 is not something that can be reconciled in our Bibles. Jesus fulfilled the law in what He was prophesized to do, make the law greater not lessor. Isa42:21 He fulfilled it showing how we keep God's laws, like fulfilling a wedding covenant. He never fulfilled is so we can profane them. Its kept for God's faithful until the end Rev22:14

I am not sure if I am interested in pursuing this conversation further because I think we both have made up on minds on this topic and at this point, we will just need to wait until Jesus comes back to sort it all out. He will soon enough. Rev22:11

 

[Hentenza]

Brother, Jesus wants us to keep the corrected Sabbath "day", different than the human tradition of Judaism, which considers the Sabbath the seventh day of the week since Joshua, when in Jerusalem the Sabbath falls half a day before the seventh day of the week.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

It is here, in the context where the language used by God expresses its importance to Jesus, that we keep the Sabbath correctly.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. GOD ANNOUNCED THIS THROUGH DAVID MUCH LATER in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now IF JOSHUA HAD SUCCEEDED IN GIVING THEM THIS REST, GOD WOULD NOT HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT ANOTHER DAY of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, Heb. 4 relates to entering into Jesus rest as Lord not about the sabbath rest.

In order to understand Heb. 4 you have to start with the latter part of Heb. 3 because Heb. 4 begins with “therefore” which is a conclusion arrived at from what was written before.

“And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose dead bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 3:18-19 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible A

And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

bible.com

The end of chapter 3 explains how the sin of Israel led to the bodies in the wilderness and why that did not enter His rest which was unbelief. We know that the law is not of faith (Gal. 3:12).

“Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.

bible.com

The beginning of chapter 4 is an attention getter because it includes the writer’s present audience of believers.

“For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 4:2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Downl

For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith.

bible.com

The Jews did not heed the gospel of good news and remain in disobedience and their sins so they belong in the group described at the end of chapter 3. Those who heard and accepted the gospel of good news are of faith and NOT united to those that are not of faith.

“For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My anger, They certainly shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭3‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “AS I SWORE IN MY ANGER, THEY CERTAINLY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB

For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “AS I SWORE IN MY ANGER, THEY CERTAINLY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

bible.com

Only those of faith enter Jesus rest. This understanding governs the rest of chapter 4. And to top it off the new promises are for a new covenant. So nothing here supports the keeping of the sabbath as it was in the old covenant and it is not part of the new covenant.

Now, my request still stands. Please post a post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment.

 

[Mercy Shown]

I think the disconnect is what is flowing from Christ.

You seem to think from what I can tell, that Christ is not enabling us to keep His commandments, but what we feel is right or wrong.

“I think many sincere believers desire to keep the Ten Commandments out of love for God, and that’s commendable. Yet sometimes, it’s easy to rely on our own sense of what ‘keeping them’ looks like, rather than seeing how the gospel reshapes our understanding of the law. Scripture reminds us that nothing less than perfect obedience would meet the law’s standard (James 2:10), which is why we all need Christ’s righteousness, not our own (Romans 3:20-22).


I don’t say this to criticize, but to point out that we can each develop our own version of Sabbath-keeping that feels right to us, even when it may not align perfectly with what Scripture teaches about finding our rest and fulfillment in Christ (Colossians 2:16-17; Matthew 11:28). My hope is simply that we all keep looking to Jesus—the only One who ever truly kept the law perfectly—and allow His Spirit to fulfill it in us.”

When you say observe a particular practice, I am assuming you mean the Sabbath since that's what this thread is about, so from what I can tell you are teaching that if we are in Christ we no longer have to keep the commandments of God the way God said including this particular practice, but that's not what Jesus ever said, He taught plainly the opposite. John14:15 John15:10 Mat`5:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 12:12 Mark2:27 Mat4:4

“I appreciate your sincerity in wanting to honor God’s Sabbath, but I don’t believe the way you observe it fully reflects how God has revealed it in His Word. Also, it’s important to remember that in the passages you’ve mentioned, the law had not yet been fulfilled—Christ’s work was still in progress. The fulfillment came when He declared on the cross, ‘It is finished’ (John 19:30). That moment marked the completion of what the law pointed toward and what only He could accomplish. I share this not to argue, but to remind us both that our rest and righteousness are found in His finished work, not in our ability to keep the law perfectly.”

If we are in Christ abiding in Him this is what is flowing out of us. Love to God that we want to obey Him and abide in His love because we love Him.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

So if we are loving Christ and abiding in Him, one is also keeping His commandments so there would be no disconnect with Christ our Savior His Laws He asks us to keep if we love Him.

“I appreciate what you’re saying about love leading to obedience — that’s a beautiful truth. I would just add, that when Jesus spoke of ‘My commandments’ in John 15:10, He wasn’t referring specifically to the Ten Commandments given through Moses, but to His own teachings — the words He gave His disciples while He was with them (John 14:21, 23-24).


His commandments center on faith in Him and love toward others (John 13:34; 1 John 3:23). Today, that same obedience continues as we walk in the Spirit, listening to His leading and allowing His life to be expressed through us (Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:16-18). The Christian life isn’t about going back under the letter of the law, but about living out the Spirit of Christ’s teachings day by day.”

If you knew someone that was committing adultery, would you encourage them to continue in that path even though we are told sin separates us from Christ Isa 59:2 unless we have a change in heart and a change in direction, means putting away that sin. The thing is I do not think God separated the 4th commandment from the other 9 commandments, Deyt 4:13 Exo 34:28 James2:11 man did this, not God. So encouraging someone that they do not have to keep a particular practice that is contrary to the law of God is no different than someone committing adultery or breaking any of God's commandments.

“I completely agree that sin separates us from God and that repentance means turning away from what is wrong and walking in newness of life (Isaiah 59:2; Romans 6:1-4). But I think we need to be careful not to equate every difference in understanding of the law with open rebellion against God.


The moral principles behind the Ten Commandments are eternal — love for God and love for others — but the covenantal form of the law, including the Sabbath as given to Israel, pointed forward to something greater. Scripture says that Christ fulfilled the law (Matthew 5:17) and that in Him, believers enter God’s true rest (Hebrews 4:9-10). The New Testament never presents Sabbath observance as a test of loyalty to God, but rather invites us to rest in Christ’s finished work (Colossians 2:16-17). This is the fullfillment of the 4th commanment by Christ.


So encouraging someone to rest in Christ rather than to follow a particular day of observance isn’t like condoning adultery or lawlessness — it’s pointing them toward the One who fulfilled the law perfectly and empowers us to live righteously through the Spirit (Romans 8:3-4; Galatians 5:18).”

Jesus fulfilling the law to mean we do not have to keep God's commandments as clearly Jesus stated the opposite Mat5:19 is not something that can be reconciled in our Bibles. Jesus fulfilled the law in what He was prophesized to do, make the law greater not lessor. Isa42:21 He fulfilled it showing how we keep God's laws, like fulfilling a wedding covenant. He never fulfilled is so we can profane them. Its kept for God's faithful until the end Rev22:14

“I think there’s been some misunderstanding, and I want to be clear that no one here is advocating disobedience to God’s law. Scripture teaches that God’s moral standards still reflect His character, and those who love Him will naturally desire to obey (John 14:15).

The difference is in how that obedience is lived out. Jesus didn’t fulfill the law so that we could break it, but so that its righteous requirement could be fulfilled in us through the Spirit (Romans 8:3–4). The law was powerless to make us righteous, but Christ accomplished what it could not.

When we say the law was fulfilled, we’re not saying it was abolished or made meaningless — we’re saying that Christ completed its purpose, revealing its true intent in love and faith (Galatians 5:14). The heart of obedience now flows from being united with Him, not from striving to earn righteousness on our own.

So we’re not rejecting God’s commands — we’re embracing them in the way Christ Himself enables: through His Spirit, by faith, from the heart.”

I am not sure if I am interested in pursuing this conversation further because I think we both have made up on minds on this topic and at this point, we will just need to wait until Jesus comes back to sort it all out. He will soon enough. Rev22:11

Ut vis

 

[Mercy Shown]

Brother, I agree with you that I wouldn't believe it because your interpretation is figurative, referring to "rest" as Jesus, and mine is literal, referring to "rest" as the Sabbath. To show you the difference, I asked ChatGPT: "When both are possible, which is correct: a literal or figurative interpretation?"

ChatGPT said:​

Good question — and the answer depends on context and intent.
Here’s how to think about it:

• If a literal interpretation makes sense and fits the context, that’s usually the correct one.
  • Example: “He ran to the store.” → literally means he physically ran.
• If a literal reading seems absurd, impossible, or out of place, a figurative interpretationis probably intended.
  • Example: “He ran out of time.” → not literal; you can’t physically run out of time.

Writers, speakers, and interpreters often follow this principle:

So, literal first, figurative if necessary — unless the context (like poetry, metaphorical writing, or symbolic speech) clearly signals otherwise.
Would you like me to explain how this applies in a specific field — for example, literature, law, or theology?

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Nice, but you are still misreading the text. Ask Chat GPT about confirmation bias.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

“I think many sincere believers desire to keep the Ten Commandments out of love for God, and that’s commendable. Yet sometimes, it’s easy to rely on our own sense of what ‘keeping them’ looks like, rather than seeing how the gospel reshapes our understanding of the law.

Thankfully, God is the one to determine this, not anyone else. The way you are phasing it as if you are looking down at others who want to obey God. God cannot be mocked. Gal6:7 lets not forget Whose commandments and Testimony this is Exo31:18 the God of the Universe.

Scripture reminds us that nothing less than perfect obedience would meet the law’s standard (James 2:10), which is why we all need Christ’s righteousness, not our own (Romans 3:20-22).

This is our fundament difference, you keep indicating that the righteousness of Christ is not going to keep the commandments the way He told us to or how Jesus lived in our sinful world, not just for His sacrifice but also as our example to follow to show us how one lives righteously. 1 John2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15. Basically this teaching is a double standard and a dichotomy between Christ and His Laws. Christ kept the same laws we are to keep John15:10 1John2:6 the same way He said to Mat 5:19-30. Going outside and making up our own rules and our own righteousness instead of His Psa119:172 Isa56:1-2 which is everlasting Psa119:142 I do not believe is wise.

I don’t say this to criticize, but to point out that we can each develop our own version of Sabbath-keeping that feels right to us, even when it may not align perfectly with what Scripture teaches about finding our rest and fulfillment in Christ

We do not need to do what feels right because we have Scripture which plainly tells us how to keep the Sabbath Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13 Lev23:3 the Scriptures are filled with Sabbath teachings etc. no deed to deviate from it, with plenty of examples from Jesus and His apostles.

(Colossians 2:16-17;

Read the OP as this is not about the weekly Sabbath, but the sabbaths connected to annual feast days and sin offerings, that came after the fall which was fulfilled in Christ Heb10:1-10 1 Cor5:7. The weekly Sabbath started at Creation, part of God's perfect plan and points to God as our Creator Exo20:11 and Sanctifier Eze20:12 and will never be a shadow of anything. We are told to get back to worship this God Rev 14:7

 

[guevaraj]

Nice, but you are still misreading the text. Ask Chat GPT about confirmation bias.

Brother, there is plenty of confirmation in the Bible that proves I am not biased, such as the passage in Leviticus that I asked ChatGPT about below, which shows that the days of the week do end in a "morning" and not an "evening," since the Sabbath falls before the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem.

I'm not the only one who understands that the Leviticus passage that says the day ends in the "morning" differs from Jewish tradition since Joshua about when the day begins, as revealed in the following passage.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

This is what ChatGPT says about the message of the Leviticus passage when I asked it: "when does the day end according to Leviticus 7:15 NLT".

ChatGPT said:​

Here’s what Leviticus 7:15 (NLT) says:

“The meat of the peace offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the same day it is offered. None of it may be saved for the next morning.”

According to this verse, the “day” ends when the next morning begins — meaning by sunrise or dawn of the following day.
In ancient Hebrew reckoning, a “day” often began in the evening (sunset) and ended at the next sunset (see Genesis 1:5, “evening and morning” as a day). However, in Leviticus 7:15, the specific instruction says the meat must not be kept until morning, implying that the acceptable eating period ends when a new morning begins — not necessarily at sunset.
So, in summary:

• In the context of Leviticus 7:15 (NLT), the “day” of the sacrifice ends at the next morning (dawn).
• In general Hebrew timekeeping, a “day” runs from evening to evening.

This means the verse emphasizes total consumption before dawn, not before sunset.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Mercy Shown]

Thankfully, God is the one to determine this, not anyone else.

Yes, and that is why we can stop implying that those who understand things differently than we do are promoting doing away with God's Commandments.

The way you are phasing it as if you are looking down at others who want to obey God. God cannot be mocked. Gal6:7 lets not forget Whose commandments and Testimony this is Exo31:18 the God of the Universe.

This is our fundament difference, you keep indicating that the righteousness of Christ is not going to keep the commandments the way Christ did when He lived in our sinful world as our example to follow. 1 John2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15. Basically this is teaching a double standard and a dichotomy between Christ and His Laws. Christ kept the same laws we are to keep John15:10 1John2:6

We do not need to do what feels write because we have Scripture which plainly tells us how to keep the Sabbath Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13 Lev23:3 no deed to deviate from it, with plenty of examples for Jesus and His apostles.

Read the OP as this is not about the weekly Sabbath, but the sabbaths connected to annual feast days and sin offerings which was fulfilled in Christ Heb10:1-10 1 Cor5:7

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, and that is why we can stop implying that those who understand things differently than we do are promoting doing away with God's Commandments.

I can only go by what Scripture says. God said He would not alter His covenant Psa89:34 so if someone is not teaching what God said and wrote plainly, we should concerned and prayerfully study and make sure our teachings are in harmony with God’s promises. I believe God spelled out His commandments and Testimony plainly by design. All we need to do is have faith, believe and do and as Jesus said, teach others. Mat5:19

I think we are at an impasse and it will have to get sorted out at His soon return.

 

[guevaraj]

Brother, Heb. 4 relates to entering into Jesus rest as Lord not about the sabbath rest.

Brother, there is no need to speculate about the meaning of the word "rest," because Hebrews chapter 4 tells us what it means. It is not about rest in Jesus as Lord, as you suggested, contradicting the context, but about the "day" of rest known as the Sabbath, highlighted below, a "day" that Joshua misunderstood.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

Again, there is no need to speculate in Hebrews chapter 4, because the meaning of the word “rest” is given to us: it is the Sabbath "day", the seventh day of creation, a “day” that Joshua misinterpreted in the following statement. In other words, there is something wrong with the Jewish understanding of the “day” of the Sabbath since Joshua.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Hentenza]

Brother, there is no need to speculate about the meaning of the word "rest," because Hebrews chapter 4 tells us what it means. It is not about rest in Jesus as Lord, as you suggested, contradicting the context, but about the "day" of rest known as the Sabbath, highlighted below, a "day" that Joshua misunderstood.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

Again, there is no need to speculate in Hebrews chapter 4, because the meaning of the word “rest” is given to us: it is the Sabbath "day", the seventh day of creation, a “day” that Joshua misinterpreted in the following statement. In other words, there is something wrong with the Jewish understanding of the “day” of the Sabbath since Joshua.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, I am going to have to continue explaining Heb. 4. Your commentary only covers what suits your belief and in your own words rather that how the verses are actually written. So in my previous post I established the audience and context which clearly shows that the writer of Hebrews is referring to those with faith.

“For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this passage, “They certainly shall not enter My rest.””
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

This quote from Genesis 2:2 highlights that God's rest signifies the completion of His creative work. The Sabbath day rest was established as a type or shadow of this greater spiritual rest.

However, verse 5 connects the Old Testament example of the Israelites who did not enter the Promised Land with the future promise of God's rest. The condition for entering this rest is not a physical journey, but "faith in His promises, through His Son".
The inability to enter is due to a lack of faith, not a lack of the promise itself.

“Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Two subsets of people are listed here, those who have not entered yet which are non believers and those who had the good news preached to them but rejected it, Jews.

“He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.””
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

So here, instead of the previous seventh Day, God sets a new day and that is “today”. σήμερον translates as “this day”. This is a quote from Ps. 95:7-8 where David was pleading for Israel to have faith and not harden their hearts. So it is no longer about A day, one day a week, but about any day of the week. We should have faith every day and worship Him every day.

“For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

If Joshua’s rest would have been enough refers to going into the promised land. Joshua’s rest was not enough so then God himself would not have spoken by David of a better and heavenly rest promised to believers in the gospel. Remember that Joshua already had the Ten Commandments so the rest, even of the sabbath, was not enough.

“Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Since this is the rest that the Jews could not enter by faith, and since in the previous verse another day was chosen, and since verse 7 also confirms that another day was chosen, today, then this refers to the OT sabbath as a shadow of what is now Jesus’s rest. Also those that enter Jesus rest, by faith, has also rested of their works since works are the result of faith not the condition for faith. Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath and as such is our rest.

So I still need you to post a post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment.