Col 2:16 is about not judging others

[BobRyan]

IN CONTEXT

Colossians 2:8-17
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
.

In this following post it is pointed out that in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

BobRyan said: ↑
As noted in my post above - "Bible details matter" even in Colossians 2
Paul is not deleting scripture in Col 2. He is condemning the practice of simply "making stuff up'

Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

=========================

In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.

In Mark 2:19-22 they did it as well and Christ refuted their arguments.

Is it any wonder that in Col 2 the saints were contending with the same problem of man-made-doctrine and traditions -- "making stuff up"??

Not at all surprising.

 

[BobRyan]

So are we.
Reformed Covenant Theologians
RCC
SDA
Hebrew Roots
Have all failed to "cast out" the Sinai covenant of bondage and embrace the New Covenant, instead.

Until you actually read what they teach and leave your false accusations in the dust.

Somehow, you are able to ignore the details Galatians chapters 3 and 4 and misapply the "yoke" in Acts chapter 15.

As we already saw here - May 5, 2016 #1

and here - May 8, 2016 #1

 

[bugkiller]

In this following post it is pointed out that in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

I send the passages you quoted right back to you. You'll never succeed in defrauding me to forsake and trade grace for salvation by obedience to the law.

Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Until you actually read what they teach and leave your false accusations in the dust.

Somehow, you are able to ignore the details Galatians chapters 3 and 4 and misapply the "yoke" in Acts chapter 15.

Really? Please give some specifics.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Col 2 is opposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

=========================

In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.

In Mark 2:19-22 they did it as well and Christ refuted their arguments.

Is it any wonder that in Col 2 the saints were contending with the same problem of man-made-doctrine and traditions -- "making stuff up"??

Not at all surprising.

==== as for Gal 3 May 16, 2016 #21

==== and as for Gal 4 May 5, 2016 #1

 

[bugkiller]

Col 2 is opposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

Then why don't you quit doing it?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

=========================

In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.

In Mark 2:19-22 they did it as well and Christ refuted their arguments.

Is it any wonder that in Col 2 the saints were contending with the same problem of man-made-doctrine and traditions -- "making stuff up"??

Not at all surprising.

I send the passages you quoted right back to you. You'll never succeed in defrauding me

Ignoring every detail in the text and the post... again??

 

[bugkiller]

<snip>



Ignoring every detail in the text and the post... again??

No.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

yes.

Christ in Mark 7 and Paul in Col 2 -- condemn the idea of simply "making stuff up".

GOD speaks for God and HE already spoke to this point of changing His Law via church tradition. As we see in Mark 7:6-13

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it is shown via "Sola Scriptura" testing that it is traditions and "doctrines of men" that are at odds with scripture

==================

Compare to Paul condemning that same practice as noted here -
Jun 25, 2016 #27

 

[BobRyan]

some folks are still trying to figure out what Col 2 says -- so bumping this thread up.

We saw a pretty good review of it -

And did you read the 1050 commands found in the NT??

And... "who puts the limit on God"???

As for Col 2 -- condemning the traditions and doctrines of man - and upholding the Word of God --

Col 2 is opposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

 

[Travis93]

Colossians 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

This obviously can't be God's own law, here's why.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

 

[Bob S]

I never once said you have to keep ALL of the last as its impossible since most wont apply to you as you are not a woman, not a priest, not a king, not a farmer, there is no temple up and you are not in the land of Israel with a active government setup. Everything else pretty much still applies.

I guess you can still buy or make your own tassels, so are you Tzitzit complaint? They shall make themselves tzitzit on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and they shall place on the tzitzit of each corner a thread of techeilet. And it shall be tzitzit for you, and you will see it, and you will remember all the mitzvot of the L-RD and do them and not follow your heart or your eyes and run after them. -Numbers 15:38-40

How about the payyot law, do you allow your sideburns to grow and curl them? You pretty much can do these laws from Torah. Torah says as one of its commands: Not to take away from the commandments of the Torah, but you said "pretty much still applies". Pretty much??? You have already taken away the Temple which if you are really wanting to please God you would rebuild. God dwelt there after all. That was most important to God and the Israelites. You are to learn Torah and to teach it. Do you know all of the laws of Torah and are you teaching those laws? Every person shall write a scroll of the Torah for himself. Are you compliant? You write that you are not a farmer, but you do eat the produce the farmer raises. Do you know you are not eating foods grown in the Sabbatical year? Do you drink cider? Are you sure you are not drinking worms that were embedded in the apples? Since you are to teach Torah even if you are not a woman or a farmer( you might be teaching a farmer) you are to know all of the laws and I guess have an excuse for not being compliant with most of them.

Jesus had no new laws

If He had no new laws then why did he tell us to keep His commands as He kept His Father's commands

as he came to do the fathers will, not create his own religion.

His Father's will was to create a new covenant for all mankind. The old one ended at the Cross.

He upheld his fathers commands and taught others to do so as well.

Others as in Jews who by the way were still under Torah.

He repeated the teaching of God and he said Love God and Love one another are a sum of all the commands and they can be summed up as, so a SUM is different than complete abolishment of them.

Not one jot or one tittle.... yet you have made excuse after excuse for not abiding by the complete Torah. There is a better way Saan. It is the way of the New Testament. We are not under ritual laws given only to Israel. We are under the law of love John so eloquently wrote in 1jn3:19-24. You know, the one you completely ignore.

If I say stop at a stop sign, dont text while driving, dont drink and drive, stop at crosswalks, and drive on the correct side of the road....and I say Drive Safely on this is what all the other road laws hang on or can be summed up as. Does that now mean all the road laws I just explained no longer are valid because I said to Drive Safely??

Loving others surely would not include wearing tzitzit or long curled sidburns or keeping ritual days meant for Israel before it all ended at the Cross.

 

[Travis93]

Where does it say each person has to write their own Torah? I see the king must write his own Deuteronomy 17:18, but that's just him, not everyone. Deuteronomy 31:19 says for people to write the song of Moses for themselves, but it's just an oral law that you are supposed to write everything in the whole five books. We aren't subject to oral laws, those are the tradition and commandments of men that Paul wrote against (Colossians 2:22).

 

[bugkiller]

some folks are still trying to figure out what Col 2 says -- so bumping this thread up.

We saw a pretty good review of it -

Maybe its you having the problem.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Colossians 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

This obviously can't be God's own law, here's why.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

yep - - that is clear enough to all of us.

 

[BobRyan]

As for Col 2 -- condemning the traditions and doctrines of man - and upholding the Word of God --

Col 2 is opposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

A bit of a problem for those who "need" to avoid this part of Colossians 2 context and detail.

Maybe its you having the problem.
bugkiller

?? I find your logic "illusive" again.

 

[bugkiller]

?? I find your logic "illusive" again.

illusive or just not in agreement with you?

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

Where does it say each person has to write their own Torah? I see the king must write his own Deuteronomy 17:18, but that's just him, not everyone. Deuteronomy 31:19 says for people to write the song of Moses for themselves, but it's just an oral law that you are supposed to write everything in the whole five books. We aren't subject to oral laws, those are the tradition and commandments of men that Paul wrote against (Colossians 2:22).

The website I used to find the 613 laws is: http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm

I tried to look up the word Shirah in the Hebrew dictionary and it came back with 0 results.


Devarim 31:19Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
19 Now therefore write ye this shirah for you, and teach it the Bnei Yisroel; put it in their mouths, in order that this shirah may be an ed (witness) for Me against the Bnei Yisroel.

 

[BobRyan]

As for Col 2 -- condemning the traditions and doctrines of man - and upholding the Word of God --

Col 2 is opposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

A bit of a problem for those who "need" to avoid this part of Colossians 2 context and detail.

Maybe its you having the problem.
bugkiller

?? I find your logic "illusive" again.

illusive or just not in agreement with you?
bugkiller

Illusive --- or is this where you reveal the logic in your post?

 

[BobRyan]

The website I used to find the 613 laws is: http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm
.

And then the 1050 commands in the NT ? Or did you decide to ignore those?