Are the 10 Commandments Required for Christians? Is the Sabbath important to God?

[from scratch]

Until you read the Bible -

Mark 7:6-13

Where He quotes from one of them (in this case the 5th commandment) AND calls them "The WORD of God" -- condemning the church traditions that try to set them aside.

Matt 5:19
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
...
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.




Matte 19

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.


1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Back to the merry-go-round. She spins merrily right along and never stops.

LK 24:44 covers this and allows for Jesus to be a priest as Heb 7:12 states contrary to the law. Jots an tittles have indeed passed from the law or Jesus isn't your priest.

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.

10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

 

[from scratch]

You failed to do that succesfully on any thread - so now you simply ask that we not talk about it.

Your arguments were not only debunked by scripture - but even your own pro-sunday sources condemned that idea.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective bible student.

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in Christ,

Bob

No they don't and I object to your making it appear I said such.

 

[BobRyan]

No they don't and I object to your making it appear I said such.

I think you misread the post again;


Added comment for FromScratch in red

============================

We've already exhausted another thread wherein the fallacy of a Genesis 2:3 origin for the Sabbath was already exposed.

You failed to do that succesfully on any thread - so now you simply ask that we not talk about it.

Your arguments were not only debunked by scripture - but even your own pro-sunday sources condemned that idea.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective bible student.

[FONT=&quot]

we saw - #149 the 7 point list that even the pro-Sunday Sources affirm. (The same seven point list that we also find here -- #2)

And here #150 -- with an example of D.L. Moody affirming those very same 7 points

And of Course here - #67 where the Baptist Confession of faith affirms those very same 7 points.

And now we have this post #152 where the BCF language about the "CHANGE" to the still binding 4th commandment is being claimed.

And of course even the Catholics seem to love all SEVEN of the primary Baptist Confession of Faith points on the TEN commandments. #167

Seven points - where ALL those at war with God's Ten Commandments - find themselves at war with all 7 points listed. (Which includes the Sabbath binding in Gen 2:3 in Eden - for the people of God as all TEN still are for the saints today).

(NOTE for From-Scratch) -- As it turns out - "details matter" when in a debate discussion.

And all of them admit that the moral law of God is at the heart of the Jer 31:31-33 "New Covenant"

[/FONT]

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I find it most interesting that Jesus didn't quote a single one of the Ten Commandments.

Until you read the Bible -

Mark 7:6-13

Where He quotes from one of them (in this case the 5th commandment) AND calls them "The WORD of God" -- condemning the church traditions that try to set them aside.

Matt 5:19
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
...
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.




Matte 19

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.


1 John 5
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Back to the merry-go-round.

For the rest of us -- it is the Bible.

We like to call it "the Word of God".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

FromScratch - what is your response to the Bible texts showing the statements of Christ specific to the TEN Commandments?

To ignore all of the texts?

LK 24:44 covers this and allows for Jesus to be a priest as Heb 7:12 states

How "nice" but you are the one that claimed the following

Originally Posted by from scratch

I find it most interesting that Jesus didn't quote a single one of the Ten Commandments.
​

Which as we just saw -- did not survive this review of the texts - #34

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

No they don't and I object to your making it appear I said such.

Just keep this discussion in perspective: It is being argued that the Catholic Catechism is the source of the Seventh Day Adventist Sabbath doctrine, and every mention of the real source of the doctrine, using easily verifiable cites, has been denied, denounced, deflected and sidestepped.

As I have written elsewhere, Adventist statements almost always contain more than 10 layers of outright lies. The formula that I have urged is to playfully imagine the maximum number of lies that you think might be possible, then double or triple the wildest number you can come up with. That is likely to be the correct number of lies in an Adventist statement.

 

[VictorC]

I just reviewed the OP for this thread. It doesn't have any mention of the Sabbath's origin. Your disdain for exposure claims a bias that isn't found elsewhere.

Once again, we have seen that Mark 2:27, Exodus 20:11, and the Genesis account itself all work together to testify of the Sabbath's origin long after God rested on the seventh day. Your latest argument is now contradicting the Law itself in Exodus 31:13. To accept your argument, one has to conclude that the Bible is not a reliable witness. On the contrary, Scripture is reliable, and your contradiction to it isn't acceptable.

So answer this: why can't you find the Sabbath recorded in the Genesis record?

You failed to do that succesfully on any thread - so now you simply ask that we not talk about it.

Your arguments were not only debunked by scripture - but even your own pro-sunday sources condemned that idea.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective bible student.


in Christ,

Bob

We can restore posts as easily as you run from them by deleting their content. You didn't provide an answer to my question: why can't you find the Sabbath recorded in the Genesis record?

The answer is obvious: there is no such record. Adventism relies on mythology that is against the Law.

 

[BobRyan]

We can restore posts as easily as you run from them by deleting their content. You didn't provide an answer to my question: why can't you find the Sabbath recorded in the Genesis record?

.

Hint Gen 2:1-3.

Even God affirms this point about Gen 2:3 in Ex 20:11

As does Christ in Mark 2:27

As does even the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith.


your own pro-sunday groups denounce your idea of war against God's Ten Commandments including your opposition to the 4th commandment today and also starting in Eden in Gen 2:3.

- as we saw - #149 the 7 point list that even the pro-Sunday Sources affirm. (The same seven point list that we also find here -- #2)

And here #150 -- with an example of D.L. Moody affirming those very same 7 points

And of Course here - #67 where the Baptist Confession of faith affirms those very same 7 points.

And now we have this post #152 where the BCF language about the "CHANGE" to the still binding 4th commandment is being claimed.

And of course even the Catholics seem to love all SEVEN of the primary Baptist Confession of Faith points on the TEN commandments. #167

Seven points - where ALL those at war with God's Ten Commandments - find themselves at war with all 7 points listed. (Which includes the Sabbath binding in Gen 2:3 in Eden - for the people of God as all TEN still are for the saints today).

Note to From-Scratch -- As it turns out - "details matter" when in a debate discussion.

And all of them admit that the moral law of God is at the heart of the Jer 31:31-33 "New Covenant""

In the mean time even the pro-Sunday sources below denounce your war on God's Ten Commandments.

 

[LarryP2]

We can restore posts as easily as you run from them by deleting their content. You didn't provide an answer to my question: why can't you find the Sabbath recorded in the Genesis record?

The answer is obvious: there is no such record. Adventism relies on mythology that is against the Law.

I noticed that artful dodge too! I have responded to a number of Adventist Sabbath Porn Product posts, and they were deleted afterwords to make it appear I was talking to myself.

We are dealing with very slick, conniving, extraordinarily-gifted con artists that will pursue any tactic, no matter how dishonest and unethical, so suck gullible Christians into their vile, Ebionite heresy. Remember, this monstrosity achieved its original marketing "legs" with the travelling freak show of Ellen White's on-demand "visions." With James White the Carnival Side Show barker.

 

[VictorC]

Hint Gen 2:1-3.

Bob, Genesis 2:1-3 records God's rest. That wasn't the Sabbath. You've already seen Scripture attest to our entrance into this rest, which wasn't available until after the tenure of the Law driving the Sabbath came to an end.

Even God affirms this point about Gen 2:3 in Ex 20:11

No, Bob. Exodus 20:11 uses God's rest as the reason to ordain the Sabbath in this verse. The impetus has to exist before the result, and Exodus 20:11 proves that God's rest wasn't the Sabbath. It uses the same sentence structure Deuteronomy 5:15 has for the same result:

And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.​

By your twisted and tortured reasoning, the Sabbath = the exodus from Egyptian bondage - that's how you handle the disparate nouns in Exodus 20:11 that delineate discrete events.

As does Christ in Mark 2:27

Jesus flatly came right out and told you the Sabbath wasn't God's rest. But you don't believe Jesus. You don't believe the Law's record where God Spoke these Words: "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you'".

As does even the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith.

The very reason I told you these sources can't be reconciled with Scripture. Neither can your posts. Neither can Adventism. Neither can the quaint notion of a 'Sunday sabbath' you've adopted as your argument.

your own pro-sunday groups

Uh-uh. They aren't 'mine'. They're yours. Bringing them up affirms your disdain for God's Word and a love for mythology.

 

[VictorC]

I noticed that artful dodge too!

It's the same used Dodge, but with tacky paint job that looks worse than the avocado green Dodge tried to make popular in the 70's.

 

[LarryP2]

It's the same used Dodge, but with tacky paint job that looks worse than the avocado green Dodge tried to make popular in the 70's.

I've figured it out finally: It's an automatic Adventist Sabbath-Product™®© spam-generating computer that randomly sends out Adventist Sabbath-Product™®© infocommercials. It actually cannot respond and interact to a human conversation. Artificial intelligence is still a ways off.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, Genesis 2:1-3 records God's rest.

Ex 20:11 insists that in Gen 2:3 God rested - and that this fact alone makes the day binding for all mankind.

And now we have this post #152 where the BCF language about the "CHANGE" to the still binding 4th commandment is being claimed. There the BCF says it started in Eden as the 4th commandment - Sabbath - seventy-day of the week. But then the BCF says the commandment was bent, edited "Changed" at the cross. Which is an example of "Bending" and "Breaking" that Christ also condemned in Mark 7:6-13 when the Jewish "Magisterium" tried it with their own church tradition.


The BCF points to the scriptures that declare the Sabbath Commandment starting with Adam in the Garden of Eden - Gen 2:3 post #219


You've already seen Scripture attest to the fact that when made it was "Made for Mankind" as the links above point out.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, Genesis 2:1-3 records God's rest. ... Exodus 20:11 proves that God's rest wasn't the Sabbath.

Until you read Ex 20:11 without the bias you are using.

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

 

[VictorC]

Ex 20:11 insists that in Gen 2:3 God rested - and that this fact alone makes the day binding for all mankind.

God's rest is binding? "Binding"? We had to wait until after the Sabbath ended before it was given to us. What does this have in relation to the Sabbath? You just affirmed your concession that Genesis 2:3 wasn't the Sabbath.

 

[LarryP2]

God's rest is binding? "Binding"? We had to wait until after the Sabbath ended before it was given to us. What does this have in relation to the Sabbath? You just affirmed your concession that Genesis 2:3 wasn't the Sabbath.

I'm starting to figure out the programming algorithm. I think there must be a programming glitch that someone overlooked when the automatic Adventist Sabbath-Product™®© infomercial generating computer is confronted with Genesis.

 

[LarryP2]

God's rest is binding? "Binding"? We had to wait until after the Sabbath ended before it was given to us. What does this have in relation to the Sabbath? You just affirmed your concession that Genesis 2:3 wasn't the Sabbath.

I'm starting to figure out the programming algorithm. I think there must be a programming glitch that someone overlooked when the automatic Adventist Sabbath-Product™®© infomercial generating computer is confronted with Genesis.

It needs to be reprogrammed with the latest and almost unanimous opinion of Adventist Hebrew scholars who reject the Genesis Sabbath creation ordinance.

 

[FuzzyBunnySlippers]

Of course the 10 commandments are important to Christians. It was important to the founding fathers of America too. When they created the laws of the land many of the 10 were used.
We're reminded of this, the Christian faith being interlinked to the founding of this free land, when we see Moses and the 10 commandments statue on the façade of the United States Supreme Court.
Boldly proclaiming God's law. And boldly renouncing the detractors of true American history.

I love that! So much.

 

[VictorC]

Of course the 10 commandments are important to Christians. It was important to the founding fathers of America too. When they created the laws of the land many of the 10 were used.
We're reminded of this, the Christian faith being interlinked to the founding of this free land, when we see Moses and the 10 commandments statue on the façade of the United States Supreme Court.
Boldly proclaiming God's law. And boldly renouncing the detractors of true American history.

Isaiah 33:22 was the inspiration for the three parts of the Federal Government of the United States:

For the Lord is our Judge,
The Lord is our Lawgiver,
The Lord is our King;
He will save us.​

This is why our government is divided into Judiciary (judge), Legislative (law giver), and Executive (king) branches. We draw on many object lessons found in God's Word...
...and we affirm God's redemption from the old covenant that drove us to God's redemption.

Galatians 3
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.​

 

[stevenfrancis]

I spoke with a Seven Day Adventist this weekend and they asked this question...Is following the 10 Commandments Required for Christians?

Can Christians:
Have and worship other Gods?
Make graven images, and bow down to them?
Take the name of the Lord thy God in vain?
Forget about the Sabbath and not keep it holy?
Dishonor their father and thy mother?
Kill?
Steal?
Commit Adultery ?
Bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Covet?

So their usual question is why do Christians think only 9 of the 10 C's apply to them when God wrote it down with his own finger, Jesus kept the Sabbath, Jesus said he didnt come to abolish any laws, the apostles kept the Sabbath even after Jesus death?


How do you respond to people when they try to corner you on this issue?

I've never BEEN cornered on this issue, and haven't even been on one of these threads before, but if I were to be cornered on it, I'd relate some version of the following. Then accept my trouncing with appreciative humility. I would then pray for the one trouncing me. Ask them to pray for me, that I be more understanding of their position. Then hopefully move on to something else.

It's my understanding that the early Jewish Christians retained synagogue on Saturdays, which would have focused on the readings, then also celebrated the "Lords Day" on Sundays which focused on the Eucharist. As time marched on, the readings were incorporated more into the Lord's Day and eventually with the advent of what would become the Mass/Divine Liturgy. As the Church filled with Gentiles, (whom the Apostles interpreted lighter laws for), the Mass/Divine Liturgy continued to bring over more and more elements from the Jewish Sabbath worship, until the Mass/Divine Luturgy was sufficient for those of Jewish beginnings and Gentile beginnings. The Mass/Divine Liturgy is to this very day divided into the Liturgy of the Word, where we keep our history, and our stories alive by hearing the written word of God, then by hearing a homily in order to tie the written Word of God into our current day lives. Then, we move to the Liturgy of the Eucharist, the source and summit of Christian life. Here we commune with the Word of God made flesh, as we eat and drink Christ's body and blood which are real food, and real drink, (John ch. 6), to receive the sustaining grace of God through the Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit, as He asked us to do on that solemn Thursday night. Since the Mass/Divine liturgy, and disappearing distinctions between Jewish and Gentile Christians, Sunday became the day of observance for the entire Christian community. It satisfies spiritually the Sabbath for the gentile, and the Christian or Messianic Jew is still free to observe the Sabbath on Saturday as well, (so long as they also observe the Lord's Day on Sunday). Gentile Christians do not sin with Sunday worship and observance, unless their conscience, which is the dwelling of the Holy Spirit of God informs them that they sin. In which case, I would think those spoken to by the Holy Spirit to continue Saturday observance should by all means continue to do so, but it seems that if they are Christians, they should ALSO observe the Lord's Day established by the early Church, and continuing to this day.

Saturday observance is certainly permissible for Christians, so nobody should be scandalizing SDA's, Messianic Jews, or others who deem this necessary. God bless you all. In fact, in the Catholic Church, anyway, we have Mass available from 4:00 PM on Saturday until sunset on Sunday, so we even cross over a bit. The Christian teaching is not to scandalize your brother for their traditions. I'll need to look up the passages from St. Paul regarding this. I forget where they're located off the top of my head. They regard eating and not eating meat and various things of this nature, and not to make a brother or sister feel shame for their tradition.

The Sabbath was made for man. And not man for the Sabbath. Jesus, our Lord told us this. So, take a day out of your life, each week, and devote it to the Lord your God, and rest from your labors. It doesn't violate the the commandment if this is Saturday or Sunday. It is only one's heart which can violate the commandment, doing something because one "must" rather than because they love the Lord, and are pleased to give Him our devotion on our day of rest. Because Jesus wrote the law in our hearts. Hearts that were too hard before the incarnation. A devout Christian's love for God is no less valid on Sunday than a devout Jew's love for God on Saturday. And many of us worship EVERY day.

I guess that's what I would say. Not sure where it would get me. People who wish to speak strongly about these matters are usually full of good intention, I have no doubt. They are speaking as the spirit has moved them, just as I can only speak as the spirit has moved me. I thank God always that He left us a Church, and Apostles to keep the Church going from generation to generation, so that many of us, aren't burdened with these decisions of expression.

May God bless,
A thoughtful and prayerful Good Friday to one and all,

Steve