• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

US Iron Dome needs to be 'far more complex' to deal with 'near-peer threats,' expert says

I'm not American but if there is a nuclear war we'll alll be affected by the fallout anyway.

I skimmed through a book "Nuclear War - A Scenario" over the last day or so by journalist Annie Jacobsen, which mixes factual data based on interviews with those in the nuclear field and a scenario in which North Korea launches two nuclear missiles aimed at US nuclear power plants and nuclear research facilities.

At one point in the book she quotes "The multibilion-dollar SBIRS constellation of early-warning satellites can no longer see what remains of the North Korean ICBM. It can no longer see the nuclear warhead en route to the United States. The warhead has gone ballistic and is now all but invisible to the satellite's sensors, coasting as it is on a high-speed trajectory to an apogee, or high point, somewhere over planet earth."

The point she was making is that the satellites are designed to pick up the launch phase ie. the hot gases and their signature. Once the rocket stops firing a few minutes later and it's gone "ballistic", the satellites can no longer see it.

I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to the military though. When the "Star Wars" program was being mooted under Reagan, I remember having a discussion with my old pastor. His comment was "They (the US) have gone quiet about it. I think they've got it up and running." Supposedly it was a failure, but that could be a convenient cover story. My assumption is that it's a laser based system designed to heat up the already red hot incoming warhead to incineration point. The old pastor was usually right (viz. God was telling him), but time will tell.


In the case of India’s Agni II with a range of 2,000km, the outer surface of the re-entry vehicle heats up to 3,000 degree centigrade.

Either way it would take a lot more detection and monitoring ability tnan a local "Iron dome" system for ICBM's. Adding to the problem are sub-launched ballistic missiles which reduce flight time from about 26 minutes for Russian and 28 minutes for Korean land based missiles to about 7 minutes for a Russian sub based 1000 kilometers from the US coastline.

Of course the US has a similar if not bigger fleet, with each Ohio submarine able to launch 80 warheads (20 ICBM's with 4 warheads each) in about a minute and a half. The author quoted "the firepower on one of these submarines can pretty much destroy a nation".

The scenario she painted in the book was depressing. Five billion people would die in an all out nuclear exchange in a matter of days, and survivors if any would be forced to live underground.
  • Prayers
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

No .. I am not accountable to you . deal with it .

The only way one person really can effectively "correct" a brother of sister in the Lord is by having a relationship with them.
Consider that Peter preached to thousands on Pentecost and told them they sinned by killing Jesus and he did not have a personal relationship with each one.

or consider the prophets who were told to cry aloud and show the sins of the nation. Or Jonah who warned Ninevah etc etc

Jesus told his disciples to preach repentance and remission of sins. Yes, all must be led by the Spirit .

“Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.” (Isaiah 58:1)

“Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:” (Acts 2:23)


as far as accountability, we are told to be ready to give an answer to every man that asketh for the reason of the hope that is in us. Jesus told us to love our neighbours and who is our neighbour?
Upvote 0

Persecution of Christians throughout 2024 in Indonesia

Every month violence, persecution, intimidation and harassment against Christians occur in Indonesia. All of them are carried out by Muslims. Christians are prohibited from singing together in their homes in several places, prohibited from praying together, prohibited from building churches and prohibited from carrying out various other religious activities.

The following is a list of events that have been reported in various national news media in Indonesia:


December 8, 2024
Prohibition of the Christmas event of the Pentecostal Church in Indonesia (GPDI) "Tegar Beriman" at the Cipta Graha Permai Housing Complex, Bogor Regency Government Complex.

December 2, 2024
Prohibition of singing practice by the Catholic congregation on Jalan Wahidin Sudirohusodo, Caile Village, Bulukumba Regency, South Sulawesi (Sulsel).

November 16, 2024
Bomb threat at the graduation ceremony of Parahyangan Catholic University (Unpar), Bandung.

October 1, 2024
Rejection of the permit to establish the Kanaan Jawa Church (GKJ) in Pondok Karya, Pondok Aren District, South Tangerang.

September 22, 2024
Prohibition of Christian activities by a Muslim woman, a State Civil Apparatus (ASN) in Perumnas 2, Kayuringin Jaya Village, South Bekasi District.

September 20, 2024
Rejection of the construction of the Gamaliel Christian school by Muslim residents in Parepare City, South Sulawesi (Sulsel).

September 2, 2024
Demolition of the Indonesian Bethel Church (GBI) in Sopan Jaya Village, Padang Laweh District, Dharmasraya Regency, West Sumatra.

August 1, 2024
Bomb attempt at two churches in Malang City. The perpetrator was arrested by the police while residing at Villa Syariah Bunga Tanjung Kav 34, Jeding Village, Junrejo District. The perpetrators are said to be sympathizers of the Islamic State.

July 3, 2024
Prohibition of non-halal culinary festivals in the city of Solo, Central Java

July 1, 2024
Prohibition of GPDI congregation activities in Margosari Village, Tarik District, Sidoarjo.

May 8, 2024
Dissolution of worship at one of the congregation houses of the Protestant Church in Western Indonesia (GPIB) Benowo, Cerme Indah Housing Block P/36 RT 11 RW 03 Betiting Village, Cerme District, Gresik, East Java, on Wednesday night (May 8) at 19.00.

May 5, 2024
Assault, stabbing and dissolution of Catholic student worship on Jalan Ampera RT 007/002, Babakan Village, Setu District, South Tangerang City, on Sunday (05/05) night.

April 16, 2024
Persecution of prayer house in Pandeglang Banten

March 21, 2024
Dissolution of Sunday service & removal of church sign of Indonesian Gospel Tabernacle Church at KM 43 RT 15 Kel Sungai Merdeka Kec Samboja Barat, East Kalimantan.
Christian Persecution of Indonesian Gospel Tabernacle Church at KM 43 RT 15 Kel Sungai Merdeka Kec Samboja Barat, East Kalimantan

March 24, 2024
Eviction, prohibition of worship and unpleasant treatment of the congregation of Thessalonika Church in Teluknaga, Tangerang Regency.
Christian Persecution Thessalonica Church

March 17, 2024
Prohibition of Sunday service events at residents' homes on Jalan Saga Bunar, Balaraja District, Tangerang Regency

February 25, 2024
The congregation of GKI Palsigunung Bajem Jalan Asem, RT.003/RW.04, Kelapa Dua Wetan, Ciracas, East Jakarta has had difficulties obtaining worship permits by the City Government, Sub-district Head, Village Head, and RW and RT.

Source: Daftar Kasus Intoleransi dan Persekusi Sepanjang Tahun 2024 Terhadap Umat Kristen dan Katolik – Kristen Alkitabiah
  • Prayers
Reactions: Pop D.

The times of the Gentiles/nations to be fulfilled....

Peace in Christ.

WE are the “temple of His body” that has been destroyed.

John 2:19-22 KJV
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

(22) When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

His body…His people…have drunk the cup that He drank of when He died on the cross for us. We...His people...have lived according to the path of Christ who died ...and then was resurrected to glory. The temple of His body has been destroyed (drinking the same cup that He did)...but it will be raised to glory in the glory of His kingdom/government.

Mat 20:23 KJV
(23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

For His manifested life that is supposed to shine in our mortal bodies (the revealing of the Son of man) has not happened in any of His people as the temple of His body has been destroyed.

The manifested Son of man is being betrayed (given up) now unto the chief priests (church leaders) and unto the scribes (the church scribes' handwritings of ordinances).

They are extinguishing His manifested life in our flesh (the Son of man) from ever appearing there in the temple of His body.

The Son of man goes away as has been written. They are condemning Him to death when Christ died and rose to life so that we might have His resurrected life now in this mortal body. His resurrected glory life is not being revealed because it is being given up.

Mat 20:17-19 KJV
(17) And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,

(18) Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

Not only that, the “gentiles”…the outside people of the world…mocks Him because of this. They....the church leaders and their scribes...have delivered Him to the outside nations. They mock and scourge and crucify Him.

We have been living through this time….the “time of the gentiles”... where they have been doing these things in the face of His people. We are being treated with contempt and shame rather than with respect and glory. We have drunk of the cup that He drank from as we are the temple of His body that has been destroyed. Not one stone is left upon another.

(19) And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

We….His people…have been living through this time of the “gentiles” where they have mocked us/Him. They have “trodden down” Jerusalem…and we are that “city” that was supposed to rule over them...but instead they are ruling over us....trodding us down.

Luk 21:24 KJV
(24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

They...the nations/gentiles...hate us because of His name's sake.

Mat 24:9 KJV
(9) Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

But the time of the gentiles/nations doing all of these things is to be fulfilled. On the "third day" He shall rise again....the temple of His body (we are His body) shall rise just like He did 2000 years ago.



Now (when the time of the outside nations is fulfilled) is the time that the temple of His body is to be built up.

Now is the time to be raised up in His power and glory in this earth.

Now is the time that the Son of man reveals Himself to this earth as we shall reveal Him in our mortal flesh. Now is the time that we receive power over the “gentiles”…the nations of this earth.

Now is the time He shall be lifted up in glory upon this earth. And if He be lifted up, then He will draw all people to Him….including the outside people of this world.

Questions

There is no book of apocalypse

The Apocalypse is also known as the Revelation. It's the 27th book of the New Testament.

Both names for the book are correct. Both "apocalypse" and "revelation" mean "to make known".

Apocalypse is a transliteration of the Greek title of the book.
Revelation is a translation of the Greek via Latin.

-CryptoLutheran
Upvote 0

1 poll finds majority of Greenland respondents support joining US

The US already have military bases in Greenland and friendly relations with both Greenland and Denmark.

There was no security need for Trump to attempt to humiliate Greenland or Denmark. Frankly, Trump's rhetoric comes across as either bullying/trolling, or absurd and insane.
Just the space force is there. Oh, but there is a security need and yes I agree with the rhetoric sometimes.
Upvote 0

God's Sabbath Blessing

The question is did God bless the day He rested and then all seventh days? Or did He mean only the day He rested? It surely doesn't seem to mean every seventh day and there is nothing said about the seventh day until God had the Israelites stop and rest after crossing the Red Sea where they were safe from attack by the Egyptians. God didn't have them rest on the seventh days during their flight out of Egypt now did He?

Israelites were slaves and had no rest. God demanded that they take time off and remember His leading them out of bondage. Deut 5

Once again using Is 66 as a reference must be accompanied with all of the New Earth promises Isaiah wrote about. In Is 65 concerning the New Earth He wrote that man would live to over 100 and if he didn't it was because he was cursed. Apparently, man, according to Isaiah, will have the ability to sin and will sin. Babies born in Heaven will not die as an infant. I do not believe you have ever explained those verses. You just keep using Is 65 as some sort of a proof text that everyone will come before God and then go out amongst the dead bodies.

Gentiles, if they wished, could join ranks with the Israelites according to scripture. That does not take away the fact that God has never asked Gentile nations to keep the ceremonial laws given only to Israel. Whether you agree or not the Sabbath
was a ceremonial law.

You like to quote Mark 2:27 as one of your "proof texts". If Jesus meant that to mean all mankind why is there no proof of any other nation ever having a seventh-day sabbath law. Jesus told the disciples to go into all the World and spread the Good News. There is no proof anywhere that it included Sabbath observance.
Ye shall not surely die huh?
Upvote 0

The Genre of Revelation is in dozens of non-biblical books back then, and has certain rules in reading it!

In regards to OP, there's something called double-prophecy, where yeah, there's a lot of prophecy that's applicable to X person at X time, but also Y person at Y time, & XY to both the X person at X time & Y person at Y time, & all can be true. It's not one or the other. There's examples of this in OT prophecies.
What the theologians I read say is that John is dressing up the geopolitical concerns of his day as theological types. They give us theological truths. These can be applied throughout history - but are not predictive - like a prophecy of timetables. They're descriptive. So they describe things like North Korea's Christian persecuting regime - and give those poor Christians something to hang onto. Was Hitler a beast government? Yes. Was North Korea and Stalinist Russia and the USSR? Yes yes yes.

Can I point Revelation at a situation today in the Middle East and divine what is going to happen?
Absolutely not!
Upvote 0

Ecumenical initiative calls for unity to celebrate Easter together

Agreed. The calendar isn't what divides us.
The divisions are way bigger than any calendar. Unsolvable even. Because fundamentally it comes down to a lack of desire to overcome obstacles. Pope Francis naively thinks we can overcome such obstacles, and indeed we could, but it just ain't gonna happen no matter how much some of us want it. 'Cause some of us don't.
Upvote 0

What Is Your View Of The End Times..?

I don't know all the lingo, but I believe the world will get really bad, it gets worse over time, not better, although it is true it has always been terrible in sin, a lot of Revelation is meant to be literal & hasn't happened yet, & God will pour out his wrath on the unrepentant, & then a new heaven & a new earth will be created for him & the saints. I don't know when that will all be tho other than soon.

I reject any 'we will make heaven on earth' teaching or 'it's all just symbolism & no one really knows anything about it.'
  • Like
Reactions: RandyPNW
Upvote 0

Why didn't Jesus write any manuscript directly himself?

Yep, all true. In church we also discuss the importance of man's testimony. Mankind won't believe the supernatural, it has to come from another man b/c we understand each other b/c we are mankind. It's another reason he came as a man too.
Also John in the Bible discusses one of the witnesses is the Holy Spirit. He has not stopped his testimony.
Upvote 0

The Exodus censuses

Maybe. Counts are frequently seen as exagerrated in other extra-Biblical texts. Maybe people just counted different back then, we don't know. We see today how quickly things just 10 years ago are forgotten by newer generations & newer generations are always wanting to change things, sometimes just to change them or to make a name for themselves.

I know for example some cultures when they count w/ their fingers they include their knuckles.

For me, I'll trust the Bible what I read, but it's worth wondering about for sure.
Upvote 0

Book recommendations for deep study

You can't beat going to the source of Protestant thought. I recommend contemporary Lutheran theology. I would recommend Paul Hinlicky, particularly this book:


Also, I think Bonhoeffer is good, but it helps to be grounded in Lutheran theology. Nevertheless, I think this is a good interpretation of Bonhoeffer's most enigmatic work. It's a pity that Bonhoeffer's thought was lost in the culture wars of the 1960's, he has alot to say to contemporary issues about Christian ethics. I have tried to keep in mind his notion that a Christian is firstly a person for others, and not primarily a "religious" person.

Upvote 0

Filter

Forum statistics

Threads
5,889,903
Messages
65,591,598
Members
276,896
Latest member
Grey Fang