Zechariah 11 - The Fifth Seal?
- By DennisF
- Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum
- 2 Replies
Wow! Your diagram has going for it that it at least makes falsifiable predictions. That is, it makes claims that are in principle falsifiable, as any scientific claim must be to have any real meaning. You (plural) are going at eschatology in accordance with the futurist school, where the eschatological events are all compressed into "the last days" at the end of the age (of Pisces). This leaves most of the previous 20 centuries of history free of any eschatological meaning.The burning of the cedars of Lebanon refers to the 1st Trumpet's 1/3 burning of the trees. There is the implication of there being a coup as it is a reference to Judges 9:15 and the parable of the Trees
15But the thornbush replied, ‘If you really are anointing me as king over you, come and find refuge in my shade. But if not, may fire come out of the thornbush and consume the cedars of Lebanon.’
The locusts of Joel are the same locusts as in the 5th Trumpet. These will begin at the Feast of Tabernacles/ 15 Tishri and will begin with at the start of the Trumpets.
The one month (Zechariah 11:8) is the time of the winter Sabbath great tribulation, the 1st phase of the 6th Trumpet in Rev 9:13-21. (If it starts Oct 17th, then this will be March 15th, 2025). Then the Dan 9:27 covenant will be confirmed by the Rev 10 mighty angel (aka the Dan 7 Little Horn, king of Babylon, Lucifer from Isa 14) one month later.
the 3 shepherds being dismissed during this month are: the Dan 7 Lion head, Bear head, Leopard head. See my thread about this month which I call the East Wind.
Futurist Only - The East Wind
The ‘east wind’ is the time of the great tribulation that occurs during Revelation 9:13-21 (the winter, sabbath great tribulation of Matt 24:15-16), at the start of the 6th Trumpet. But to start with, let’s look at Deuteronomy 28 for a moment. Deut 28:7 The LORD will cause the enemies who rise...www.christianforums.com
After the Dan 7 Little horn (4th Beast) has possession of the saints for a time, times, and half a time (which is to say the 1st half of the covenant) (Dan 7:25), then he is killed after he tries to be like God (Isaiah 14:12-14) (same as Michael warring with Satan and thus falls from heaven in Rev 12:7-9). This is the breaking of the covenant after 1260 days at the 7th Trumpet. When he is killed, then the 'rest of the beasts' are given an extension for a season and a time (Dan 7:11-12). The 'rest of the beasts' are the 'lion, bear, leopard' that were dismissed from before - the beast from the seas' Leopard, Bear, Lion.
At the time of the confirming (and breaking) of the covenant, the beast has 7 heads, 10 horns, 7 crowns (Rev 12:3).
At the time of the beast from the sea, there are 10 horns, 7 heads, 10 crowns. The 3 dismissed shepherds (Lion, Bear, Leopard) turn into the 3 horns of Daniel 7:8 during the 1st half of the covenant and then become kings again with the resurrected Dan 7 Little Horn.
Dan 7:7 After this, as I watched in my vision in the night, suddenly a fourth beast appeared, and it was terrifying—dreadful and extremely strong—with large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed; then it trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the beasts before it, and it had ten horns. 8 While I was contemplating the horns, suddenly another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like those of a man and a mouth that spoke words of arrogance.[...]23 This is what he said: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on the earth, different from all the other kingdoms, and it will devour the whole earth, trample it down, and crush it. 24 And the ten horns are ten kings who will rise from this kingdom. After them another king, different from the earlier ones, will rise and subdue three kings. 25 He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the appointed times and laws; and the saints will be given into his hand for a time, and times, and half a time.
At the 7th Trumpet, the Lion, Bear, and Leopard shepherds that were present for the East Wind month are reinstated to round out the 10 kings given power by the dragon (7 heads plus the 3 reinstated heads).
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I am looking at the topic from the standpoint of historical eschatology, where it has been happening all along. I have recently written down some notes of the topic and what follows is the first of them, for what they are worth.
Eschatology 1
I have been putting some effort into studying biblical eschatology. This is, to many Christians, about like trying to learn particle physics, but it is possible (and somebody has to do it!). Certainly I do not have the remaining future to the end of the age figured out, but I find that the book of Revelation is not as cryptic as many suppose, given some knowledge of the Old Testament symbolism from whence most of it comes. For instance, the "four creatures" are Israel assembled - see Numbers 2.) Here are a couple of ideas:
1. The seven seals of Rev. 6 are the first of three "nested" sequences (followed by trumpets, bowls) and the first four are the Four Horsemen. Somewhere in the Middle Ages the idea came about that these were like the judgement of the seven bowls (and trumpets), but the facts do not fit this interpretation. First, the white horse of the first seal elsewhere is the Lamb empowered (see Rev. 19:11). What he carries is not clear from the Greek, though Bible translators have to put something down for it. It might be the "weapon" of the Word of God, or more likely, the cross, not a bow.
(Feucht's First Law of Bible Study: never assume the translators had it right! This applies to every translation simply because translation as such is impossible; whole articles are needed to adequately explain some phrases in scripture, and some of it - especially paleo-Hebrew - can have multiple possible meanings.)
Second, the Black Horse is depicted as famine. However, it has been learned since the Middle Ages that nobody is going to starve if a choinix of wheat sells for a denarius, and the luxury items (oil, etc.) are "held" - made available. This is more like prosperity than famine.
I interpret the seals as phases of civilization, from the gospel spreading (white horse), leading to a strong society, growing into an empire phase (red horse) of military expansion, to economic prosperity and its materialist emphasis (black horse), to civil collapse of a death culture (chloros or green horse, the color of gangrene & death). The righteous suffer (covered by the blood of Jesus "under the altar") in the fifth seal from the death-mongers, then ecological disaster, and finally the threatening reappearance of the Son of Man in space (heaven) to the Rulers, and everyone taking for the underground, especially to the under-reported tunnels and underground facilities of all large cities, who do not try to commit suicide by calling the rocks to "fall on them". The Greek word pipto also means to alight - to close the tunnels from the wrath of the Lamb.
2. Much of what happens in biblical eschatology is positioned chronologically at the "end of the age". (The English word world is etymologically were-ald - were, as in werewolf, is man and ald is old German for age, or "the age of man".) It is generally supposed (as I also had) that this time is unknown, yet for millennia, the ultimate time clock for humanity has been the stars, and also for millennia, and before the babylonian mystery religion - the source of all extant paganism including New Age - corrupted it, the 12 constellations of the zodiac were the age clock. Before the sun rises in the east on the spring equinox, whatever constellation is in the night sky at that location is the age we are in. Astronomically, this corresponds to the cycle of precession of the earth, as a spinning top wobbling on its spin axis, pointing the earth to the different constellations. The period of this precessional cycle is 25,920 years. Each age is thus 1/12th that or 2160 years. The age of Pisces, which began not long before the first advent of Jesus, is now ending and the age of Aquarius is beginning. In the arid Ancient Near East (ANE) context, water was symbolic of life, and the bearer of life is Aquarius - a fitting symbol for the next age under the rule of Christ.
What every student of eschatology wants to do is determine its chronology. If we know when various events occur (whether past, present or future) we can assemble a coherent history from it. Yet that is the ultimate challenge, and the three major schools of biblical eschatology reflect that: preterist (past), futurist (future) and historicist (all along). The celestial age clock does not nail down the dating, however; constellations span a width in the sky and offer only a time resolution of several decades which can be over a century.
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