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keras · Aug 19, 2025

Douggg said:
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

It is known only to God the Father what day and hour that He will send Jesus for the resurrection/rapture.

Total avoidance of the questions I asked.
Here is another question: If we won't know when Jesus will Return, then why does 1 Thess 4:16 and Rev 19:12-16, say that glorious Day will be heralded by Trumpets and shouts from heaven? Plus, He will come exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated.

Do you really think that the Church will be raptured before any trials and testing? You contradict many scriptures if you do.
The forthcoming Day of fiery wrath, is the unknown Day. The foolish rapture believers will be terrified.

Apple Sky · Aug 19, 2025

truthuprootsevil said:
The book of Enoch tells us that the Watchers did exactly that, he was the leader of the Watchers.

I also tells us this in the book of Jasher ;

The book of Yashar (Jasher) chapter 4 further confirms this understanding of pre-flood hybridization.

18 And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.

HIM · Aug 19, 2025

bbbbbbb said:
That was not the topic of my post in reply to yours. If you believe that the topic is Hebrew 12:2, please tell me why you chose to go off-topic in your initial response. Thank you.

I didn't. Reread the post.

stevevw · Aug 19, 2025

CoreyD said:
I know it's hard for many, and I know that it is impossible... I use the word impossible, not because each individual cannot observe it, but because the heart refuses to let the individual observe it... it is impossible for many to see what is clearly written - the truth, which states that only few find the narrow door that opens to the narrow path leading to life. While the masses flood through the broad road leading to destruction, because they have itching ears, for what the many false prophets who have turned away from the truth, tells them.

I said a mouthful there, but one who knows the scriptures well can pinpoint the five scriptures I referred to in my comment.
Can you connect the five verses?
Matthew 13:15 For the hearts of these people are hardened, and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes - so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them.’
2 Corinthians 4:4 the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they will not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Matthew 7:13, 14 Enter through the narrow gate for wide is the gate and broad the way leading to destruction, and many are those entering through it. For small is the gate and narrow the way leading to life, and few are those finding it.
2 Timothy 4:3 For there will be a time when they will not endure sound teaching, but according to the own desires, having an itching ear, they will gather around them teachers to suit themselves,
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. (1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.)

While there are sincere people out their, whom have not hardened their heart, while turning their ears to what they want to hear, these will come to know the truth eventually, because their heart will lead them to it, due to humbling themselves.
I should rather say, God will lead them to the truth. John 6:44
Some who right now have itching ears for the watered down word of God, will also find the truth, because their heart will soften.

However, there are many, many, many... who will not soften their heart, and they will remain blind, because God knows their heart, and he lets them remain blind. The Bible says he gives them a strong delusion, so that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12

So, while there are many who cannot see that Satan has his own organized religion, made up of thousands of divisions, while Christ has one united body of organized worshippers.... not fighting among themselves, it is not something I am concerned about, and expect to change, or be "rectified", because I see what the scripture say... Not just I alone, because it is written clear for all to see... those who have eyes to see.
The Divisions will continue to grow, as more and more people.... or should I say, as Satan forms more churches to gather those who have itching ears, and refuse to believe the truth.

A good point. At the end of the day this will continue as prohpesised. It is the spirit of God who will reveal the truth to those with an open heart to recieve it.

That may mean like the individual that the church will experience further deception before some are awakened.

I think this is where we are at. The sorting out period. As the church is more divided than ever the more it moves away the more the truth will be revealed.

The more the opposite of Christs truth is allowed the more Christs truth will shine. The more the truth is revealed and the more people are convicted. The more darkness the more the light shines out in that darkness.

This is the nature of things and we have seen how defying God leads to chaos. But hopefully out of that chaos comes peace and order and God will allow every chance for all those who are to be saved for everything to work towards that end.

Paul says that we should obey our elders and rulers and pray they will be Godly and Christlike as it pleases God that everyone be saved.

Apple Sky · Aug 19, 2025

Strong in Him said:
When you say, "never been back", we have - many times.

Sorry I should have said, 'never been back' in over 50 years.

rjs330 · Aug 19, 2025

Cmon' man, everyone knows progressives are soft on crime.

Apple Sky · Aug 19, 2025

David Lamb said:
Anyway, "unmovable" certainly is not the same as "flat disc."

Well unmovable certainly isn't a spinning ball.

rjs330 · Aug 19, 2025

ozso said:
It doesn't make any difference on CF, so there's no reason to keep bring it up here all the time.

Some posters just can't help themselves from derailing threads. I think some thrive on doing so. Hatred of Trump is a driving force for so many on the left.

truthuprootsevil · Aug 19, 2025

I believe we are close to the return of Christ, closer than we think.

I believe the seven trumpets, the seven seals, the seven bowls, the seven veils, work together simultaneously.

I believe that in each, the six angel has sounded, and living on this planet is and will continue to go from bad to worse.

I see all the events written of unfolding. The Bible doesn't tell us the amount of time between the opening or soundings of the events, but it's been over 2,000 years to get to this point, so how long will we be living in the openings and soundings of the six angels?

truthuprootsevil · Aug 19, 2025

The book of Enoch tells us that the Watchers did exactly that, he was the leader of the Watchers.

Experimenting with humans and animals creating monstrosities ,with an s. So most of, if not all that is considered mythological creatures may have existed before the flood. These creatures probably were not great in numbers but well known to mankind that lived then.

Aaron112 · Aug 19, 2025

JesusFollowerForever said:
The question of how one’s name is written in or removed from this book is crucial in understanding salvation, judgment, and God’s justice.

Why ?

stevevw · Aug 19, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
Is some garbage in, more garbage out really useful? Do you actually want a world where lie and truth are indistinguishable and can swap places? (I really don't think you do.)

I don't think anyone does despite the claims to the contrary. Well at least people act that way. Like its about getting at what is truth ultimately.

The point being information is good and it can help find the truth. But it can also be used to obscure or deny the truth. Depending on how it is used.

honey badger · Aug 19, 2025

Aseyesee said:
The passage you quote about unbelief was Paul talking about the literal Israel in his present day … the all was not all of them; he being the prime example, but Abraham, the father of faith (or so one said) would do …

God doesn’t bind us no more than he would have confounded Jeremiah; it is our perception of God that binds us …

If the devil had no place in Jesus how can he be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; and in all points tempted like as we are … or why would Paul say not to give place to the devil (to those who seemed (by his writing) to be steeped in knowledge to the point where Paul had to explain where he saw from, or where he was at in this journey inwards) if the devil already had a place in us (not being possible that he would not have had this place already as a semi-permanent omnipotent residence from the foundation of the world) … or why would he turn one over to Satan seeing this was already the case before Paul was born, or how do you flee what is in you ... what you cannot …

Why would John have said that those born of God do not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God …

Jesus entered through the door even though he was this door he was speaking of …which is relative to every son …

The wall you speak of as something to be climbed over incloses me, and the heaven you refer to is where I am …

a knowledge that leads to death and a knowledge that leads to life ... two keys or two witnesses that speak as one ... which can be seen in mirror symmetry which permeates the entire natural world

RabbiJames · Aug 19, 2025

PARASHAH: Ekev (as a result) DEUT: 7:12-11:25

“Now, O Israel, what does Adonai your Elohim ask of you? Only to fear Adonai your Elohim, walk in His Ways, Love Him, and Serve Him, with all of your heart and all of your soul” (10:12)

I am jumping the gun a little bit, but just “how much do you love God?” is the question. We might say, “with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength!” Really? Seriously? Well, if you do, then you should be… or ask yourself the following;

Following his commandments with all seriousness, and there are a lot more than just 10. (yet we know that not all 613 are for today). “His Ways” are “His Commandments.” That is the reason behind Bible study. Are we celebrating the LORD's days? Do we look forward to study, worship, and being with other believers?

Do you speak positive words in one breath, and negative words in the other? Remember, can a tree produce both good and bad fruit? No, not a biological tree, but a human tree can! And we do it every day, blessings and curses from the same mouth. Are you following God’s chosen diet for you in Leviticus 11? It is for your own good health and welfare.

Are you saying, “The Torah commandments are in the past, we don’t need to follow them anymore,” then why don’t you go out and steal? Or take someone’s wife? Those commandments are in the Torah! The Torah/Law was not crucified on the Cross of Calvary, our sins WERE! The curse of sin and death WAS, because Yeshua bore it ALL. As one rabbi put it, "Be careful we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."

Would you risk your life for another life? Even for a street bum? Are material things very important in your life? Or too important? Would you risk losing them? Would you give them up to follow the Master? Do you let anger loose in your life? Or do you have it in check?

Do you look forward to studying and/or listening to HIS word? If so, then there should be hundreds reading this portion of the Bible study now on these forum sites, not just 30 or 40.

Many say “I love God with all my heart,” but the fruits don’t jive with the words. I am speaking to myself as well. It is just something to think about the next time you say. “I love God with all my heart.” Now let’s get started with this Midrash entitled “Ekev.”

Moshe starts out reminding and assuring the Children of Israel that “because ye harken unto these ordinances and keep them, and do them…YHVH shall keep with thee the covenant…. He starts on a positive note; however, we know that history reveals that Israel did NOT keep the covenant, but broke the covenant, and went after strange gods, idolatry, etc. Perhaps this was an incentive to obey, and they would reap the blessings of obedience…IF…they would obey.

Many parts of this study are a repetition of the words “if” and “then”. We are talking about a conditional covenant. ALL covenants are conditional. The word “life” itself contains the word “if” right in the middle. We can sum up “life” as many “conditional experiences” depending on how we react to them; if” we react in one way, “then” the result will follow, either negative or positive. Even the covenant of salvation which is for ALL mankind is “conditional” “If” we repent and accept Yeshua/Jesus as our Redeemer and LORD, “Then” we will receive the gift of salvation which follows. Salvation is a gift for all mankind, yet we must receive it through a repentant and contrite heart, a willingness to turn “Shoov” and follow the Master. Our master is like our father, who loves his children very much.

The father promises his son that if the son would obey the rules of the house, do his homework on time, help take out the garbage, clean the bathroom, help mom with the dishes…THEN…the father would take the son camping during the summer. It is all about “rewards” for “obedience”

Is this any different for us? I would say not. Rewards for obedience have nothing to do with our salvation experience. Our salvation is based on FAITH and FAITH ONLY, and not on our obedience to mitzvoth, yet obedience to the Torah comes as a result of our relationship with Yeshua HaMashiach. Even he said, “If you love me, obey my commandments. Back on Mt. Sinai, Yeshua was with the Father during the giving of the Ten Commandments, and later, the rest of the 603 that were given during the 40 days of being with God. So, did Yeshua give us ALL the commandments? I would have to say YES.

More than once, Moshe reminds the people to “follow and obey” the commandments, to “Hear” (Shema) the word “Shema” is related to “Shamar”, which is to “guard”. So, to “Shema” the commandments of Adonai, is to “remember, observe, put into action, and guard, not only 'hear and listen to”. We must always remember that obedience to the commandments of Adonai, the ones that can be observed today, has nothing to do with our salvation experience. We are saved, secure, forever, by the blood of Yeshua, by his once-only sacrifice. Obedience to the Torah commandments comes as a “result of” our family relationship with Adonai. As obedient children, we will “want to” do as our father tells us to do, for our own good, to be a Holy, set-apart people.

An interesting verse is 8:1 “All the COMMANDMENT which I command thee this day shall yet observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land….” In Hebrew, it is “Kol ha Mitzvah”; it is written in the singular and not in the plural! But shouldn’t it be “mitzvoth” (commandments)? One would think so, but it IS in the SINGULAR, but why? The sages’ comment that all the commandments can be summed up into ONE commandment; “Love YHVH thy God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might, and strength” and when we do love Adonai in this way, we will follow all the rest of the commandments, including loving our neighbor as ourselves.

Chap 9:4…. Moses reminds the people that it isn’t because they are a “righteous” nation that God is allowing Am Israel to move into the land of Canaan, conquer the pagan inhabitants, and take possession, but rather it is because of those nations’ “unrighteousness” and “wickedness” that is the reason. Just like the time of the flood, the wicked world was destroyed, and Noach and his family were saved, yet Noach had his problems too; his righteousness had flaws too, just like ALL of us. Our holiness is full of “holes”, and our salvation is because our God is merciful and he just chose to love us, just because HE is a LOVING and MERCIFUL GOD, and not that we deserve salvation. We can also state that the land of Canaan was being given to the Israelites because of the promise that YHVH made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, too. YHVH never breaks his promises.

Chap 9:24. Here is an interesting verse, God calls Israel "rebels" during those 40 years. "Ye have been 'rebellious' since the day I knew you." In Hebrew, the word is written with a small "m" then a large "M" "maMrim" It has the root "Mara", bitterness. Is there a deeper meaning here? Well, the Hebrew letter "Mem' (M) has the value of "40" the number of years that the Israelites spent in the desert. The small "m" might be a way that God is telling the Israelites "you made yourselves Small" with your rebellious attitude. Yet if you "humble" yourselves, you will be exalted (made big). This is just an idea.

Chap 11, Moshe gives an order; “Therefore, thou shall love YHVH thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his ordinances and his commandments ALWAYS! Moshe cannot say this enough, like a father tells his children, “obey the rules, obey the rules, obey the rules” it is for their good. Unfortunately, the admonition of obedience for many people goes in one ear and out the other.

We can also see on various occasions that Moshe intercedes before “Am Yisrael” before Adonai. He reminds them of their sin with the golden calf, and how Adonai wanted to destroy Israel, and even Aaron, for permitting the people to do such a thing. Yet Moshe convinces Adonai to give Israel and Aaron another chance…and then another…and then…Could we go on? Doesn't that describe all of us? Moshe here is a type of Messiah who intercedes for his people, as Yeshua intercedes on our behalf before the Father.

We all continue to have a rebellious heart, many times walking in the flesh, disobeying His Mitzvoth (commandments), yet we have life, we are not struck down, He forgives our trespasses through Yeshua, whose blood paid for all of our sins, past, present, and future. We just have to have discipline and learn to walk in His commandments, trusting Him as Messiah and LORD. Trusting in HIM seals the covenant personally, and walking in HIS commandments is a result of the first.

Let us go forth with a renewed heart, and show our love to God, by learning and obeying His WORD, through the power of the HOLY SPIRIT, we can be obedient sons and daughters of Adonai El Elyon, and live a lifestyle that honors HIM.

"Walk in Adonai's ways! love him, fear him, and serve Him"

Christsfreeservant · Aug 19, 2025

“Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.” (1 John 5:1-4 NASB1995)

Always, if you can, read the Scriptures in their biblical and appropriate context. So many people are taking Scriptures out of their context and they are making them say what they do not say if taught in the appropriate context. And verse one here is a perfect example of that. We cannot just read verse one which says, “Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him,” and stop there. For it is not just with our lips that we are born of God, but it is faith shown by what we do in obedience to the Lord which determines our birth.

For faith in Jesus Christ is not of our own doing, not of the will nor of the flesh of mankind. We believe in Jesus only as we are persuaded of God (John 6:44). And God persuades us as to his righteousness and holiness, and of our sinfulness, and of our need to repent of (turn away from) our sins and to now walk worthy of God in walks of surrender and in obedience to our Lord and to his commands. For Jesus said if anyone would come after him he must deny self, take up his cross daily (die daily to sin) and follow (obey) him. For if sin is our practice, and not obedience, we will die in our sins.

For it is not enough just to acknowledge with our lips that Jesus is the Christ, or to profess love for God. For what we truly believe will be shown by our actions. And this love that we are to have for God comes from God, who is love, and it prefers what God prefers, which is all that is holy, righteous, morally pure, faithful, and obedient to our Lord and to his New Covenant commandments. And if truly we believe that Jesus is the Christ, it will be revealed by our submission to his lordship, our surrender to his will, by our dying with him to sin, and by our obedience to his commands.

So, if truly we are loving God with a pure biblical love for him, which prefers what he prefers, and which results in us obeying his commands, in practice, this will also be shown in how we treat other people. For God will be the one ruling in our hearts and minds, filling us with his love and grace, and giving us love for other Christians and for the people of the world. We will have the mind of Christ, therefore, in how we treat others. And this is not saying we will do it perfectly, for we are still clay in the hands of The Potter, being molded into the likeness of character of Christ, and we are not yet complete.

But lack of perfection is never to be used as an excuse for willful, deliberate, and habitual sin against God and against our fellow humans. For to overcome the world has to do with us putting sin to death in our lives daily, by the Spirit, and us walking in obedience to our Lord’s commands daily, and us no longer yielding to the flesh and to sin, in practice, but us now making righteousness, godliness, moral purity, uprightness, faithfulness, honesty and obedience to our Lord what we practice, in lifestyle. For faith in Christ Jesus which is genuine = obedience, and disobedience = unbelief.

Gospel:[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

Your Love Inspires Me

An Original Work / April 28, 2011
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Your love inspires me
to want to know you more.
I worship and adore
my gracious, loving Lord.
Washing all my sin,
purify within,
Your grace and
Your loving kindness
save from sin.

Because of what You’ve done
for me, I praise You, Lord.
You freed me from my sin,
and made me whole within.
As I come to You
with a contrite heart,
I pray that
Your love and mercy,
You impart.

Jesus died for you, then
He rose up from the grave.
He conquered death and sin,
so by our faith we’re saved.
He became a man.
This was in God’s plan,
So that we might be forgiven,
cleansed within;
saved from sin.

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Our Love For God
An Original Work / August 19, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

David Lamb · Aug 19, 2025

Jack Terrence said:
Show from the Old Testament where the names of gentiles were written in the book of life. And why are their names not written upon the New Jerusalem?

I imagine the verse you have in mind is:

““He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And [I will write on him] My new name.” (Re 3:12 NKJV)

If so, that doesn't say that anybody's name is written on the new Jerusalem, but that God's name, and "the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem" will be written on him who overcomes.

David Lamb · Aug 19, 2025

Jack Terrence said:
The natural man in 1 Corinthians 2 refers exclusively to the Jewish rulers who crucified Christ (verse 8). Note that Paul said only that they didn't understand.

8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Paul didn't say that none of the common people understood it. Calvinism has no case.

Certainly in the earlier part of the chapter he mentioned the Jewish leaders who arranged Christ's crucifixion, but when he later talks of the natural; man, the context shows that he is not thinking only of those Jewish leaders:

“12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.” (1Co 2:12-14 NKJV)

Surely "the spirit of the world" was not only evident in the actions of the Jewish leaders, but in all who do not know the Saviour.

Gene2memE · Aug 19, 2025

ozso said:
He says go back to the original more failsafe system and do what other democracies have already done. Oh my the totalitarian horror of it all.

Other Western democracies have (generally) expanded mail in voting since the pandemic. It's certainly easier in Australia to vote by mail than it was 6 years ago.

Douggg · Aug 19, 2025

keras said:
Indeed; the Lord does nothing without revealing His plans to His servants the Prophets. Amos 3:7

So where does the fanciful notions like a 'rapture to heaven'. or there being a 'King of Jewish Israel' come from?

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

It is known only to God the Father what day and hour that He will send Jesus for the resurrection/rapture.

Strong in Him · Aug 19, 2025

Apple Sky said:
I have three questions in regards to the moon landings.

1. Why have we never been back ?

When you say, "never been back", we have - many times.
The first manned aircraft to have landed on the moon was in 1969, there were others after that. I think man last walked on the moon in 1972.
But many aircraft have been to the moon since, to take photos and/or collect samples. The latest of these was in May 2025.

List of missions to the Moon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As to your other two questions, I don't know - look it up. (And I don't mean on YouTube.)

David Lamb · Aug 19, 2025

Apple Sky said:
No I can't, I can only give verses that state that the earth is unmovable which must refute a spinning globe.

When the bible talks of something or somebody being unmovable, it doesn't mean that the thing or person is absolutely motionless. Think of this verse, for example:

“For the king trusts in the LORD, And through the mercy of the Most High he shall not be moved.” (Ps 21:7 NKJV)

It would be ridiculous to take that as meaning that the king (David) never moved about his palace, or went to war.

Anyway, "unmovable" certainly is not the same as "flat disc."

stevevw · Aug 19, 2025

JosephZ said:
Hamas is a product of the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories. The occupation of the Palestinian territories and unjust treatment of Palestinians provided a fertile environment for the rise of an Islamic terrorist group and its ability to recruit and gain support among a largely Muslim population. Hamas was able to thrive because many Palestinians, after 20 years of occupation following the 1967 war, became frustrated with the secular Palestinian organizations' lack of progress in ending the occupation and the creation of an independent Palestinian state. The creation of Hamas and its rise to power were a result of Palestinian anger, desperation, and frustration.

Isreal pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and the opportunity for Palestinians to self govern. They chose to empower radical ideologues that were around way from the current conflict.

The same radicals I might add who list westerners just below the Jews in exterminating if we don't conform to their radical ideology.

JosephZ said:
The only way Hamas can be eradicated is by addressing the long-standing grievances of the Palestinians, improving the lives of the Palestinian people, and creating an independent Palestinian state. Anything short of these things will ensure that Hamas and/or its violent ideology will survive and continue to be a threat to Israel and peace in the region.

That won't happen until Hamas either surrender or are gone from Gaza. Hopefully the root of this radical ideology Iran with it.

The idea that Hamas is some legitimate war and terror due to percieved past wrongs is the very ideology that is causing the conflicts. Hamas ontologicall believe in a different reality. No amount of cowing andcatering to the demands will change their fundemental belief that Isreal is to be eliminated from the land and the face of the earth.

These radicals have even admitted this ie

Hamas in Its Own Words

The Hamas Charter:
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (Preamble to Hamas Charter).

The Hamas Charter specifically dates Hamas’ ideological roots to well before the establishment of Israel and sees itself as part of a “chain of the struggle” against not only the state of Israel but also Jews (who they term “Zionists”) who lived there before it became Israel in 1948.

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz ad-Din al-Qassam and his brethren the fighters [and] members of Muslim Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Muslim Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1968 and after. (Hamas Charter, Article 7).

Hamas sees the territory of Israel as exclusive to all the world’s Muslims (not just Palestinians), forbids a Jewish state on “any part” of the land and promotes the idea that it is the “duty for every Muslim” to reverse Israel’s existence:

The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [holy possession] consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part or abandon it or any part of it. (Hamas Charter, Article 11).

Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Muslim wherever he may be. (Hamas Charter, Article 13).

In its founding charter, Hamas cites a particularly violent hadith as proof that Muslims need to fight and kill Jews:

The hour of judgment shall not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, so that the Jews hide behind trees and stones, and each tree and stone will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him,' except for the Gharqad tree, for it is the tree of the Jews. (Hamas Charter, Article 7).

Peace is not an option for Hamas, only violence:

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. (Hamas Charter, Article 13).

Since its creation in December 1987, Hamas has invoked militant interpretations of Islam to spearhead a Sunni extremist movement committed to destroying Israel.

Hamas also rejected any prospect of peace or coexistence with the state of Israel. “Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with.”

In December 2012, Khaled Mashaal, a leader in exile, reflected the traditional Hamas hardline, “The state will come from resistance, not negotiation. Liberation first, then statehood. Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north,” he said in a speech. “There will be no concession on any inch of the land. We will never recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation, and therefore there is no legitimacy for Israel… We will free Jerusalem inch by inch, stone by stone. Israel has no right to be in Jerusalem.”

When activist cry from the "River to the Sea" they are actually declaring the elimination of Isreal.

Ismail Haniyeh in 2020: He explained that Hamas rejects ceasefire agreements by which, “Gaza would become Singapore,” preferring to remain at war with Israel until a Palestinian state is established from the River to the Sea: “We cannot, in exchange for money or projects, give up Palestine and our weapons. We will not give up the resistance... We will not recognize Israel, Palestine must stretch from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea.”
Hamas Political Bureau Chairman Saleh Al-Arouri in an August 2023 interview: He expressed Hamas’ desire for “total war” with Israel: “Therefore, we are convinced that if a total conflict begins, the airspace and seaports of this entity will be shut down, and they will not be able to live without electricity, water, and communications.”
Hamas senior leader Khaled Mashal stated on October 19, 2023 that he views the current loss of civilian life in Gaza – brought about by Hamas' strategy of using human shields – as essential: “No nation is liberated without sacrifices... In all wars, there are some civilian victims. We are not responsible for them.”
Hamas senior leader Ismail Haniyeh, commenting on the loss of civilian life in Gaza on October 26, 2023: “The blood of the women, children and elderly […] we are the ones who need this blood, so it awakens within us the revolutionary spirit.”

Hamas in Its Own Words

www.adl.org

David Lamb · Aug 19, 2025

Valletta said:
Except for the angels I have mentioned. Of course Heaven wasn't opened up to the saints in OT times, nor for part of the NT, and I have mentioned angels being addressed in Psalms. But it is in the Bible that we are to pray for one another, and we ask others to pray for us. Certainly that cloud of all those witnesses, all of those saints, should not be excluded. There is nothing in the Bible that says they should be excluded. We are in communion with the saints.

Yes, and I remember answering you, saying that the Psalms are not talking of praying to angels. If they were, then the Psalms would also encourage us to pray to the sun, moon and stars:

“Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all you stars of light!” (Ps 148:3 NKJV)

Also, asking others to pray for us is not the same thing at all as praying to them.

RileyG · Aug 19, 2025

Questioning

RileyG · Aug 19, 2025

Ice cubes

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