• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

By the Law Is the Knowledge of Sin

What do you mean by "legalism"? If it is legalism for God to graciously teach us to obey His law and it is legalism for Jesus to graciously set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to it, then legalism would be a good thing, but that is not what I think it means.
You have identified the main element of legalism. It is an attempt to be declared righteous (i.e., justified) by God on the basis of one's obedience to His laws. His laws include all His dictates that distinguish right from wrong. The first and greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, strength, mind, body, etc. The second greatest one is to love your neighbor as yourself. Perhaps the third and fourth greatest ones are the commands to be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect and to be holy as He is holy. There are obviously many other laws in addition to these.

Jesus made it clear that fulfilling these laws is not reduced to carring them out in the flesh. Hatred and lust, for instance, break the laws concerning murder and adultery. Certainly, the societal impacts of physical murder are greater than murder committed only in the heart, but that doesn't aquit a person of breaking the law when he hates someone. What this means is that the declaration of a person as righteous must also include a declaration that the person's thoughts and intents are righteous in addition to his physical actions.

You say nobody is perfect, and you are right about that. I think we also would agree that nobody is perfectly holy, that nobody is perfectly righteous, and nobody perfectly obeys God's laws. And if we could discern the thoughts and intents of peoples' hearts, then I am sure we would be even more convinced of these facts.

What does this tell us? As you have already agreed, it tells us that "no one is justified (i.e., declared righteous) by the law in the sight of God" (Ga 3:11). God does not declare people to be righteous on the basis of their obedience to the law because no person passes that test. He knows the truth of the matter better than we do, and even we can sense that nobody is perfect, especially ourselves.

So, back to the question... Legalism is seeking to be declared righteous by God on the basis of our obedience to His laws. It is not simply a declaration from us that we are righteous because we obey God's laws. It is asking God, who knows everything and sees everything, to put His stamp of approval on our thoughts, intents, and conduct and declare that we are in full compliance with His laws. And those who preach legalism tell other people that they should seek God's declaration of righteousness through their obedience to His laws.

If you are not doing this, then fine. There is nothing wrong with trying your best to love God, to love your neighbor, to be perfect, and to be holy (etc). But everyone should understand that God will not look at us and declare us righteous on the basis of our success. He will only declare us righteous if we trust that Jesus' sacrifice for our failures to obey is sufficient for us.
Psalms 145:17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways and kind in all his works.

What exactly do you think is being communicated by saying that God's nature is righteous if there is no connection to God's works?

You're welcome.

I stated that there is no such thing as someone being righteous apart from also being a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law. I did not state that there is no concept in Scripture that faith is counted as righteousness. While the only way for someone to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough righteous works in order to earn it as the result, what it means for someone to become righteous is for them to become a doer of righteous works. In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law, and in 1 John 3:4-7, everyone who is a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law is righteous even as they are righteous.

While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was declared righteous (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), so the same faith by which he was declared righteous was also embodied by being an obeyer of God, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of His obedience (Romans 4:1-5). In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and that his faith embodied his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they were embodying his faith, but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

No, the fact that we are declared righteous by faith apart from works does not abolish our need to be a doer of righteous works, which is not righteousness through obedience to the law.

People in the Bible stated that someone else was more righteous than them (Genesis 38:26, 1 Samuel 24:17), so righteousness is not all or nothing, but rather for someone to be righteous means that their life is direct at being a doer of righteous works. Someone being righteous does not mean that they always do what is righteous, but that it is the goal that they are aimed at and when they have not acted righteously, then they repent. Likewise, someone being courageous does not mean that they have always acted courageously, but that their goal is to act courageously and they repent when they have not.

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent hi ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law. We can do works that embody our faith, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith by his works, so everyone who is a doer of the same works as James has faith in Jesus. The significance of our obedience to God's law is not that is is part of something that we are required to have successfully done first in order to earn becoming right with God as the result, but rather the significance is that it is the way to embody our faith, and it is by that faith that we are made right with God. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. Repentance is inherently an act of faith by turning away from doing what is right in our own eyes towards trusting in God with all of our heart to correctly leads us through His law and he will make our way straight.
Upvote 0

Former DOGE Employee beaten in DC trying to stop car jacking

Aren't there already several threads on this? Even the news source is from a couple weeks ago.


Also, lols on "trying to stop carjacking" as though he were some kind of hero rather than just a mugging victim.
Upvote 0

Book Of Enoch And The Flat-earth

You cannot even prove that what is directly God inspired must be taken as "literal and inerrant."
“All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Just saying.
Upvote 0

What is God's purpose for our dreams?

Maybe try this,
In a prayer, ask God to use you. This is what I did and over time God gave me direction and purpose. "Lord, please use me as a tool as you see fit. I surrender to you Lord, please guide me and shape me in the way you want". Something like that. Let God be the potter, as you are the clay.
This way you will be aligned to do God's work so that you can confirm whether your selfish desires are just either getting in the way, or are truly in alignment to what God wants. The "follow your heart" idea is dangerous and not something I believe in anymore because feelings can be temporary. Make sure that your desires aren't just based off feeling, that one day you want to do that thing, and another day you don't feel like doing it. If God aligns you in a certain way you won't really lack motivation, your mind and heart posture will say "It would be a pleasure to do that thing for you Lord".
Upvote 0

DAVID MARCUS: De facto President Trump's handling of shutdown threat was a masterclass

The reader will note.I never said that Trump found a cure for cancer. I never said he was working on a cure for cancer. It was obviously a hypothetical. Thank the poster above for abundantly demonstrating what an overreaction looks like.
He is not only not working on a cure for cancer, he is actively working against cures for cancer by clawing back grants and funding while at the same time crippling the EPA from protecting clean air and water.
Upvote 0

6,000 Years?

When God began to create it, it was formless and void, but the text doesn't say how long it was in that state before God began.

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
The earth was formless and void while a wind from God swept of over the face of the water is what it says
Upvote 0

Antisemitism all time high in UK

It's not a question of acknowledgement, it's just an opinion: Which was superior? Aztec human sacrifice? Or death by torture at the hands of the Inquisition--which was happening at about the same time?

How do you know which one that is?
I guess this is just where the road splits in our thinking... We disagree
Upvote 0

Is being single, and able to handle it, a blessing?

Can I ask how old you are? Male/Female?
You're not alone though because I've been single my whole life and I don't regret it. I've turned down a handful of girls just because something in me didn't feel right about it. I've just in the last 1.5 years turned Christian and a lot of it make sense to me, self reflecting and holding true to my spirit. A lot of times God wants you single. You're not a loser because you're single. Celibacy should be celebrated (and thats no cope) and sex should be reserved to your future spouse. These days, God is teaching me how to be a husband I hope one day to find a God-fearing woman. I trust God 100% and if that's how you naturally feel and operate then so be it, you are made in God's image. I know it can feel like some outcast or exile in society but you would rather please God than to please people.
Upvote 0

Trump: “I want to try and get to heaven, if possible,”

Trump in no way ,shape or form remotely resembles the progressive ruler, King Cyrus.

FYI

"King Cyrus's policy was one of acceptance of all religions. Cyrus the Great was known for his military prowess, innovative governance, and a reputation for being a humane and benevolent ruler and is credited by some as a pioneer of human rights."
Trump is not half the man of Cyrus the Great, but I see a similarity in Trumps view toward religion and Israel. However, I don’t think we will ever see Trump the Great on a monument, unless he builds it himself.
Upvote 0

DAVID MARCUS: De facto President Trump's handling of shutdown threat was a masterclass

1.there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that trump could EVER find a cure for cancer
This is an expression of absolute knowledge; but only YHWH has absolute knowledge.

With all of the CAPS, that statement has the look and feel of Truth Social. As the Left continues to slide in the polls; there is much that they could do to cling to their power, by emulating MAGA.
Upvote 0

Trump: “I want to try and get to heaven, if possible,”

If you look over the last 100 years, how many world leaders have been Christians? The only one I could argue for is Jimmy Carter, but I would not bet my life on it. The best one could hope for is one that supports Christian values in politics. Does Trump do that? Many have claimed to be Christian and worked against Christian values. Their relationships with God are really not our business.
Upvote 0

Trump: “I want to try and get to heaven, if possible,”

Oh please, some on the left claim conservative republican pro-trump Christians are a cult who literally worship him as a christ-like being.
A lot do.

But the only basis they have for that is comparing trumps and their behaviour to other cults and cult leaders that have existed.

That doesn't seem fair.
Upvote 0

Trump: “I want to try and get to heaven, if possible,”

I get what you're saying. But I still think the crux of this particular matter is trying to get conservative republican pro-trump Christians to change their minds and vote democrat.

I am a born-again Christian and do not identify as Republican or Democrat. I believe voting is a personal decision, and everyone should choose what they feel is best for the country or society. Whether someone votes for Trump or Harris, it doesn't matter to me. I really don’t care either way.

In America today, Christianity has become associated with individuals who have divorced and remarried multiple times, display disrespectful behavior, make false statements, and brag their sexual immorality openly. Some Christians appear to accept these behaviors because they support certain policies from this individual.

This thread discusses whether asking for forgiveness from God is important. Seeking God's forgiveness is a fundamental tenet of Christianity, but some defend President Trump to the extent that they support spreading false teachings.

Will an unbeliever who reads this thread, after seeing what’s been said about forgiveness, be open to a Christian asking them to seek God’s forgiveness for salvation? Wouldn’t they want to know the context in which they should ask?

Is it appropriate for Christians who accept multiple marriages and divorce to address the sanctity of marriage? Additionally, is it effective for a pastor to preach about humility, respect, and loving one's enemies while simultaneously praising and defending an individual whose behavior is characterized by name-calling, demagoguery, and frequent dishonesty?

If Christians choose to vote for President Trump or support his policies, that's their decision. However, why do they feel compelled to justify his actions that conflict with Christian principles?

It is possible for Christians to state that they supported President Trump because of certain policies, while acknowledging that his sexual behavior and approach to marriage do not align with Christian values or biblical principles.

Is it possible for Christians to state, "I voted for President Trump because of his policies, though his personal character or the way he treats others does not align with the Christian lifestyle"?

The events taking place today will have a lasting impact beyond President Trump's tenure in politics. Eventually, President Trump will leave the White House and his influence on American politics will diminish. What will remain, however, is the manner in which the majority Christian population supported a leader whose actions often did not align with traditional Christian values. That will be the lasting legacy of this era.

As a Christian, I am concern about that.
Upvote 0

Trump: “I want to try and get to heaven, if possible,”

Trump is basically a Cyrus. Cyrus did many bad things, but he was big on helping various religions get back to being able to worship as they wished. We know mostly about his helping Jews, but he didn’t favor one much over the other. Both have been placed in their positions at a particular time to accomplish their goals. Cyrus never actually confessed to any religion, and I’m not surprised that Trump thanks God but refuses to state his faith. For the time being, it might be good for America and the world. We will see.
Trump in no way ,shape or form remotely resembles the progressive ruler, King Cyrus.

FYI

"King Cyrus's policy was one of acceptance of all religions. Cyrus the Great was known for his military prowess, innovative governance, and a reputation for being a humane and benevolent ruler and is credited by some as a pioneer of human rights."
Upvote 0

Trump: “I want to try and get to heaven, if possible,”

Oh please, some on the left claim conservative republican pro-trump Christians are a cult who literally worship him as a christ-like being.
I think more "liberal" Christians see the adulation as to a Cyrus-like being, and not a Christ- like being. But that is beside the point. It's about policies, not the personal salvation of the President. No, this is just another "who's a real Christian" thread.
Upvote 0

Filter

Forum statistics

Threads
5,875,285
Messages
65,363,141
Members
276,198
Latest member
BEN_T