Trump: “I want to try and get to heaven, if possible,”

[BCP1928]

It looks like this thread is degenerating into another "who's a real Christian" discussion, which has no place in a political forum.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

There are Christians who believe you can and will continue to sin, yet your conscience is freed from the need to ask for forgiveness?

This sounds extremely dangerous to both self and others - making Christian faith a malevolent force in the world. I hope this is a minority position.

It is the "Once Saved Always Saved" doctrine.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

No, I consider the left trying to dissuade Christians from supporting Trump as being propaganda. Now if we're going to go after this president to condemn him based on whether or not he's ever in his life asked God for forgiveness, then we need to examine whether or not every other president has ever asked God for forgiveness. Although I'm not sure what the point of such a venture would be, since the United States isn't a Christian theocracy.

Nor do I see much point in trying to get Christian Trump supporters to change their mind about Trump, because that's not going to make any difference at this point. Unless the left really is afraid he'll somehow swing a third term. Or maybe they're hoping if they can get Christians to change their mind about supporting Trump, that will somehow convert them into becoming Democrats.

For over a century, Americans have considered the character of candidates before casting their votes. Discussions about values such as morality, faith, and personal conduct have been prominent, particularly among Evangelical Americans. In recent decades, topics like the sanctity of marriage and views on sexual ethics have influenced voting preferences. These factors played a role in distinguishing candidates such as Bob Dole from Bill Clinton, and Al Gore from W. Bush.

Just 28 years ago (1997), evangelical Christian leaders on television and in churches across the nation preached that if an individual could not remain faithful to his spouse, it would be difficult to place trust in him as President of the United States.

The political right, known as the moral majority, has advocated that only born-again Christians should hold office. Historically, evangelical Christians have not supported non-Protestant presidential candidates, which explains why there has only been one Catholic president in US history.

Non of these things by the “left”,

But all have changed since 2015. Now twice divorce is ok. getting married three times is ok. Grabbing women .. XYZ .. is ok. Now even not asking God’s forgiveness is ok.

Why call ourselves Christians if we can’t even say it is imperative that one must seek God's forgiveness for salvation?

The left is not harming Christians; rather, Christians are undermining themselves by abandoning Biblical principles for a mortal man.

 

[ozso]

Oh yes, the OSAS, doctrine. Okay, if you do not endorse, then why do you believe in what he is saying? In case you are not familiar with this OSAS, here is some information to review.

"Once saved, always saved" is a belief that, once a person is genuinely converted and accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, they are eternally secure in their salvation and cannot lose it, regardless of any future actions or sins.
This view can be concerning for several reasons. It may lead to a false sense of security, where individuals may feel they can live a life of sin without consequences, as their salvation is already guaranteed no matter what. The entire process of sanctification is eliminated by circumventing " repentance ".

I'm familiar with quite a lot related to Christianity. I can effectively argue either position. And I'm very familiar with what you're saying. But this thread isn't about debating that. The point is many Christians believe they do not have to keep asking God to forgive them. Therefore that's not proof that someone isn't a Christian.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It looks like this thread is degenerating into another "who's a real Christian" discussion, which has no place in a political forum.

Don’t you see what a unifying force Trump can be!

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Like I said. I'm not endorsing that view. I just know there are a lot of Christians who believe that point of view. Most likely several career bible teachers, scholars, and theologians hold that point of view.

So, You're defending something you don't consider biblical.

In another word you are saying, they are wrong about biblical teaching but who cares.

 

[ozso]

For over a century, Americans have considered the character of candidates before casting their votes. Discussions about values such as morality, faith, and personal conduct have been prominent, particularly among Evangelical Americans. In recent decades, topics like the sanctity of marriage and views on sexual ethics have influenced voting preferences. These factors played a role in distinguishing candidates such as Bob Dole from Bill Clinton, and Al Gore from W. Bush.

Just 28 years ago (1997), evangelical Christian leaders on television and in churches across the nation preached that if an individual could not remain faithful to his spouse, it would be difficult to place trust in him as President of the United States.

The political right, known as the moral majority, has advocated that only born-again Christians should hold office. Historically, evangelical Christians have not supported non-Protestant presidential candidates, which explains why there has only been one Catholic president in US history.

Non of these things by the “left”,

But all have changed since 2015. Now twice divorce is ok. getting married three times is ok. Grabbing women .. XYZ .. is ok. Now even not asking God’s forgiveness is ok.

Why call ourselves Christians if we can’t even say it is imperative that one must seek God's forgiveness for salvation?

The left is not harming Christians; rather, Christians are undermining themselves by abandoning Biblical principles for a mortal man.

I get what you're saying. But I still think the crux of this particular matter is trying to get conservative republican pro-trump Christians to change their minds and vote democrat.

 

[durangodawood]

....The point is many Christians believe they do not have to keep asking God to forgive them. Therefore that's not proof that someone isn't a Christian.

A person who can do wrong yet not have it weigh on their conscience is a malevolent presence. I would have thought that definitively not a Christian conscience. But if it is, then we need to re-examine the value of Christians in power.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Oh yes, the OSAS, doctrine. Okay, if you do not endorse, then why do you believe in what he is saying? In case you are not familiar with this OSAS, here is some information to review.

"Once saved, always saved" is a belief that, once a person is genuinely converted and accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, they are eternally secure in their salvation and cannot lose it, regardless of any future actions or sins.
This view can be concerning for several reasons. It may lead to a false sense of security, where individuals may feel they can live a life of sin without consequences, as their salvation is already guaranteed no matter what. The entire process of sanctification is eliminated by circumventing " repentance ".

I am a fundamental Baptist who believes in OSAS.

Yet every time I come and humble myself to God, I ask for His forgiveness because I am not worthy to stand before Him!

 

[BCP1928]

I get what you're saying. But I still think the crux of this particular matter is trying to get conservative republican pro-trump Christians to change their minds and vote democrat.

That would imply that "liberal" Christians think conservative Republican pro-Trump Christians support his policies because Trump himself is a Christian, which not even you believe.

 

[ozso]

So, You're defending something you don't consider biblical.

No that's completely wrong. First of all, as I pretty clearly stated, I'm not endorsing it. I'm not defending it nor am I arguing against it. I'm just stating that many Christians believe that you don't have to keep asking God for forgiveness. Therefore that's not proof that someone is not a Christian.

In another word you are saying, they are wrong about biblical teaching but who cares.

No, that's completely false.

 

[ozso]

That would imply that "liberal" Christians think conservative Republican pro-Trump Christians support his policies because Trump himself is a Christian, which not even you believe.

Oh please, some on the left claim conservative republican pro-trump Christians are a cult who literally worship him as a christ-like being.

 

[Nithavela]

Yeah.

I'm sure Trump has put that much thought into it.

He doesn't really need to put that much thought into it when he has competent spiritual advisors like Paula White.

 

[ozso]

I am a fundamental Baptist who believes in OSAS.

Yet every time I come and humble myself to God, I ask for His forgiveness because I am not worthy to stand before Him!

Why ask for forgiveness if you believe in a doctrine that says you're already forgiven? Shouldn't you, given the context of that doctrine, rather apologize to God? Let Him know that even though He's already forgiven you, that you're sorry for what you did wrong?

 

[BCP1928]

Oh please, some on the left claim conservative republican pro-trump Christians are a cult who literally worship him as a christ-like being.

I think more "liberal" Christians see the adulation as to a Cyrus-like being, and not a Christ- like being. But that is beside the point. It's about policies, not the personal salvation of the President. No, this is just another "who's a real Christian" thread.

 

[ozso]

He doesn't really need to put that much thought into it when he has competent spiritual advisors like Paula White.

Sometimes people need time to think things over to form a good answer to a question. Good zing though. That's what this is really about after all.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Trump is basically a Cyrus. Cyrus did many bad things, but he was big on helping various religions get back to being able to worship as they wished. We know mostly about his helping Jews, but he didn’t favor one much over the other. Both have been placed in their positions at a particular time to accomplish their goals. Cyrus never actually confessed to any religion, and I’m not surprised that Trump thanks God but refuses to state his faith. For the time being, it might be good for America and the world. We will see.

Trump in no way ,shape or form remotely resembles the progressive ruler, King Cyrus.

FYI

"King Cyrus's policy was one of acceptance of all religions. Cyrus the Great was known for his military prowess, innovative governance, and a reputation for being a humane and benevolent ruler and is credited by some as a pioneer of human rights."

 

[ozso]

It looks like this thread is degenerating into another "who's a real Christian" discussion, which has no place in a political forum.

Agreed. A thread titled "Trump: “I want to try and get to heaven, if possible,"" doesn't belong in the American Politics section at all in my opinion.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I get what you're saying. But I still think the crux of this particular matter is trying to get conservative republican pro-trump Christians to change their minds and vote democrat.

I am a born-again Christian and do not identify as Republican or Democrat. I believe voting is a personal decision, and everyone should choose what they feel is best for the country or society. Whether someone votes for Trump or Harris, it doesn't matter to me. I really don’t care either way.

In America today, Christianity has become associated with individuals who have divorced and remarried multiple times, display disrespectful behavior, make false statements, and brag their sexual immorality openly. Some Christians appear to accept these behaviors because they support certain policies from this individual.

This thread discusses whether asking for forgiveness from God is important. Seeking God's forgiveness is a fundamental tenet of Christianity, but some defend President Trump to the extent that they support spreading false teachings.

Will an unbeliever who reads this thread, after seeing what’s been said about forgiveness, be open to a Christian asking them to seek God’s forgiveness for salvation? Wouldn’t they want to know the context in which they should ask?

Is it appropriate for Christians who accept multiple marriages and divorce to address the sanctity of marriage? Additionally, is it effective for a pastor to preach about humility, respect, and loving one's enemies while simultaneously praising and defending an individual whose behavior is characterized by name-calling, demagoguery, and frequent dishonesty?

If Christians choose to vote for President Trump or support his policies, that's their decision. However, why do they feel compelled to justify his actions that conflict with Christian principles?

It is possible for Christians to state that they supported President Trump because of certain policies, while acknowledging that his sexual behavior and approach to marriage do not align with Christian values or biblical principles.

Is it possible for Christians to state, "I voted for President Trump because of his policies, though his personal character or the way he treats others does not align with the Christian lifestyle"?

The events taking place today will have a lasting impact beyond President Trump's tenure in politics. Eventually, President Trump will leave the White House and his influence on American politics will diminish. What will remain, however, is the manner in which the majority Christian population supported a leader whose actions often did not align with traditional Christian values. That will be the lasting legacy of this era.

As a Christian, I am concern about that.

 

[rambot]

Oh please, some on the left claim conservative republican pro-trump Christians are a cult who literally worship him as a christ-like being.

A lot do.

But the only basis they have for that is comparing trumps and their behaviour to other cults and cult leaders that have existed.

That doesn't seem fair.