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Apple Sky · Saturday at 2:50 AM

David Lamb said:
Why do you keep repeating the same thing, saying that The Hebrew word raqia (רקיע) must refer to a solid dome?

Because it does.

David Lamb · Saturday at 2:49 AM

Apple Sky said:
God (the divine Word) took on human flesh in Jesus, becoming both fully God and fully human in one person. He could perform what ever he wanted.

Of course He could. But the account says nothing about Him mysteriously passing through a solid dome. It just says that a cloud received Him out of the sight of the disciples.

HARK! · Saturday at 2:47 AM

eclipsenow said:
masked ICE goon-squads are starting to grab any 'ethnic looking' person off the street - American citizen or not

No they're not; unless you mean the ones that start fleeing frantically when ICE agents show up to arrest hardened criminals.

Apple Sky · Saturday at 2:47 AM

David Lamb said:
One further point has just occurred to me: The disciples watched Jesus ascending. He didn't just ascend to what we call the sky, where birds and aeroplanes fly, or the moon. He ascended to heaven, the dwelling-place of God. We don't read that He had to perform a miracle to pass through a solid dome.

God (the divine Word) took on human flesh in Jesus, becoming both fully God and fully human in one person. He could perform what ever he wanted.

The_Lost_Sheep · Saturday at 2:47 AM

HARK! said:
No we don't.

I know this is petty, but it grinds my gears when people say we live in a democracy. We do not. We live in a constitutional republic. There are big differences, fundamentally and practically, between the two.
And it always seems to be democrats who make this mistake. Makes me wonder why that is.

HARK! · Saturday at 2:43 AM

eclipsenow said:
We live in a democracy.

No we don't.

HARK! · Saturday at 2:42 AM

eclipsenow said:
True. But did you notice that Paul calls the Roman government "God's servants to do you good."
They maintain the law. But they also allowed exposure - the placing of full term babies in the woods to die by thirst or wild dogs!
My point? While Paul called on us to obey the law because chaos could bring down a civilisation - and Paul endorsed the Roman government as "God's servants" in this role - there is no way Paul would have endorsed letting babies be torn to bits by wild animals. That is - their role in protecting against chaos is good - but not every law they passed was good - and not everything they allowed was good.

I don't understand the relationship between "letting babies be torn to bits by wild animals" and removing criminals from our midst.

David Lamb · Saturday at 2:39 AM

Apple Sky said:
This would be true if they existed, the stars exist but not galaxies and planets as NASA describes, all's they show is composites of of the Uni - verse.

God did just that.

King James Bible
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

The Hebrew word raqia (רקיע), often translated as "firmament," refers to a solid, dome-like structure created by God on the second day of creation, separating the waters above from the waters below. It is described as a space that is stretched out and hammered into firmness.

Why do you keep repeating the same thing, saying that The Hebrew word raqia (רקיע) must refer to a solid dome? Even you said in an earlier post that it can men "expanse."

HARK! · Saturday at 2:38 AM

eclipsenow said:
Yes it is! Are you to obey God or the laws of men?

That's a false dichotomy.

See: Romans 13

David Lamb · Saturday at 2:37 AM

Apple Sky said:
I absolutely agree with this, do you agree there is a firmament or better known as the raqia above the earth ?

The term "raqia" (or "raqiya") is the original Hebrew word for "firmament," which refers to the "expanse" or "solid surface" of the sky in biblical cosmology, as described in Genesis. This concept represented a solid dome separating the waters above and below, but it is now seen as a metaphor by many theologians, as modern science views the sky as open space rather than a solid structure

KJV
And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. Ezekiel 1:22

Good News Translation
Above the heads of the creatures there was something that looked like a dome made of dazzling crystal. Ezekiel 1:22

The verse you quoted says nothing about the solidity or otherwise of the firmament. The KJV says that the firmament was "as the colour of the terrible crystal," not that it was as solid as crystal. The Good News Translation for some reason chooses to mistranslate the word meaning "colour" or "eye" as "dome," but even that version says that the firmament looked like a dome, not that it was a dome.

Apple Sky · Saturday at 2:37 AM

Strong in Him said:
is untrue. There is nothing that wasn't created by God.

This would be true if they existed, the stars exist but not galaxies and planets as NASA describes, all's they show is composites of of the Uni - verse.

Strong in Him said:
You can't "stretch out" a space.
Air cannot be "hammered into firmness"

God did just that.

King James Bible
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

The Hebrew word raqia (רקיע), often translated as "firmament," refers to a solid, dome-like structure created by God on the second day of creation, separating the waters above from the waters below. It is described as a space that is stretched out and hammered into firmness.

HARK! · Saturday at 2:35 AM

eclipsenow said:
No it doesn't. The OT didn't have ENTRY rules - just laws about how immigrants should live within Israel's borders.

(CLV) Lv 18:26
As for you, you will observe My statutes and My ordinances, and you shall not do any of these abhorrences, either the native or the sojourner sojourning in your midst

(CLV) Lv 18:27
for the men of the land who were before you have done all these abhorrences, and the land is unclean,

(CLV) Lv 18:28
so that the land shall not vomit you out when you defile it, just as it vomited out the nations which were before you.

(CLV) Dt 3:25
Let me cross over, I pray so I may see the good land that is across the Jordan, this good hill-country and the Lebanon.

(CLV) Dt 3:26
Yet Yahweh was enraged with me on account of you and did not hearken to me. Yahweh said to me: Let it be enough for you! Do not continue to speak to Me further on this matter

The_Lost_Sheep · Saturday at 2:30 AM

I haven't yet read through this thread, but wanted to share my own personal opinion. I presume some people are up in arms over Trump's vendetta to clean up the disaster the past administration inflicted upon us

This is a very tricky topic. On the one hand, God detests lawlessness, and therefore we must not stand for it either. There are many very important reasons why we have immigration laws and procedures, and must enforce them.
On the other hand, God is no respecter of nations, and we were taught many times to treat foreigners with love, as we were once foreigners in Egypt.

So what do we do? How do we handle this while staying in accordance with God's wishes for ALL of us, not just US citizens?

We do what Jesus would do. We pursue justice. We enforce the laws. We enforce them with love and a soft heart, but enforce them we must.

Interested to see other's thought on this topic.

David Lamb · Saturday at 2:20 AM

Jerry N. said:
If the 4000 were gentiles, it seems important.

Feeding the 4,000 and feeding the 5,000—same or different?

FEEDING THE 4,000 AND FEEDING THE 5,000—SAME OR DIFFERENT? by Shawn Brasseaux Anyone familiar with Scripture is aware of Christ Jesus miraculously feeding the multitudes. The Bible student will und…

forwhatsaiththescriptures.org

I have just re-read the account of the Feeding of the Four Thousand. I see nothing in that account that even implies that thos four thousand were Gentiles. Yes, He had just healed a Canaanite woman's daughter. However, we cannot make too much of that. In Matthew 8, we read of Him healing the centurion's servant, a Gentile. The very next thing we read is the healing of Peter's mother-in-law. Surely we don't assume that she was a Gentile just because Jesus had previously healed a Gentile.

HARK! · Saturday at 2:14 AM

NxNW said:
Nonexistent.

Debunked

Pommer · Saturday at 2:14 AM

Oompa Loompa said:
Tulsa Gabbard has already provided a lot of information.

Oh!?
I was unaware of her presence on these forums, what’s her avatar’s moniker?

Strong in Him · Saturday at 2:14 AM

Apple Sky said:
Look up the word ' Raqia ';

The Hebrew word raqia (רקיע), often translated as "firmament," refers to a solid, dome-like structure created by God on the second day of creation,

Genesis doesn't say that.

Apple Sky said:
It is described as a space that is stretched out and hammered into firmness.

You can't "stretch out" a space.
Air cannot be "hammered into firmness".

The_Lost_Sheep · Saturday at 2:13 AM

Hello Matt! I lived in Tampa for five years as a kid, and miss the heck out of that place!

stevevw · Saturday at 2:12 AM

Hans Blaster said:
I think I found where it happened:

There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

The short video speaks for itself. Is this possible. If so what are the implications for the mainstream view of human evolution and history. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi4gFfjzKck&ab_channel=MichaelButton

www.christianforums.com

Its funny because within a few hours there were many jumping in. I have never seen a thread explode so much lol. It certainly sparked some interest and reactions. I was looking at the replies and there were too many to reply to. I cannot keep up lol.

I think the conspiriacy narrative was introduced from the first couple of posts. Before anything was discussed. Which tells me that some will dismiss things out of hand.

Not that what is being linked is fact. But that its dismissed before theres any investigation into whether its fact. Because any talk of alternative narratives is immediately assumed as conspiracy and we have seen on occassions how conspiracy turns out truth.

stevevw · Saturday at 2:10 AM

BCP1928 said:
This is the fourth or fifth time that I know of he has taken to the CF forums with exactly the same line of argument. And we do know how to do what they did, but you can't tell that to Steve. I'm a machinist and interested in the history of the trade. I sometimes teach a course in metalworking with simple hand tools. As a class project, the students make a padlock with a key--but I'm just making that up, right? No, Steve deserves at least some piling on.

Don't pretend you don't love it lol. It gets the juices runing and sparks the imagination. Otherwise you would not jump in lol.

The_Lost_Sheep · Saturday at 2:08 AM

I wanted to introduce myself; my real name is Andrew, and am excited to meet some new people and hopefully make new friends.

I was raised Christian, but about 20 years ago I backslid and left the flock. I lived the life of a godless sinner, made many mistakes and did things that would make the devil blush. But Jesus hunted me down and after all these years, brought me back home last year, hence my username, the lost sheep.

I think that perhaps I can give a fresh perspective on some things, and certainly still have much to learn, as we all do. I'm looking forward to talking to you all here, see you around!

Praise our Lord,

Andrew

HARK! · Saturday at 2:07 AM

eclipsenow said:
At least Alligator Alcatraz has to go.

Federal judge orders closure of Trump’s ‘Alligator Alcatraz’ immigration jail

Judge’s order finds jail, which has attracted waves of criticism, was causing severe harm to Florida Everglades

www.theguardian.com

That Judge's preliminary ruling is under appeal.

David Lamb · Saturday at 2:04 AM

Apple Sky said:
Look up the word ' Raqia ';

The Hebrew word raqia (רקיע), often translated as "firmament," refers to a solid, dome-like structure created by God on the second day of creation, separating the waters above from the waters below. It is described as a space that is stretched out and hammered into firmness.

I have looked up the word. Strong's Concordance says:

"07549. raqiya [raw-kee -ah;] from 07554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky: firmament."

Thse NASB Hebrew Concordance says:

"07549. raqia (956a); from 07554; [an extended surface, expanse: ]

NAS-expanse (16), expanse of heaven (1)."

AnaHebrewEnglish Concise has:

7549 (17)
expanse (14)
heaven (2)
sky (1)

My Bible software program's concordance says that it can also mean a solid surface, but it seems clear from the other references that it does not have to. You yourself said in your previous post that the word can mean "expanse" or "a solid surface." Now you seem to be saying that it can only mean a solid surface.

One further point has just occurred to me: The disciples watched Jesus ascending. He didn't just ascend to what we call the sky, where birds and aeroplanes fly, or the moon. He ascended to heaven, the dwelling-place of God. We don't read that He had to perform a miracle to pass through a solid dome.

stevevw · Saturday at 2:03 AM

Tuur said:
Finally watched the video. It's not a earth shattering as it claims. All of my life I've been taught that Neanderthals weren't the brutes initially assumed. I've yet to try it, but would like to make a throwing stick (not a spear) similar to what H. heidelbergenis might have used. Like all throwing sticks, they were airfoils made to travel far and level. The video seems like arguing against a theory that has been on the ropes for about 60 years.

I think it misses it in insisting on permanent settlements. If there was enough food, a settlement could be permanent. The whole point of a nomadic life was that different food is available in different places at different times, and they move to go with it. That holds if the food is a herd of some sort. Food goes yonder; you follow it. Structures are just as easily tents as buildings, and some sort of organization makes camp life more efficient and pleasant. And being nomadic doesn't necessarily mean being on constant move. Go here when the salmon are running; go there when there's bison about. Should be about time for the berries to be ripe over yonder. That sort of thing. And if you've preserved food in some way, have enough to settle down for winger. Iif you come back to the same campsite year after year, then it makes sense to have something waiting when you return.

What you are describing or rather the basis and assumption that this is being based on is itself the point of the video. This is still trying to conform human history to the evolutionary story. That it was all about survival.

When it seems the evidence points to a much more complex history and often dictated by religious belief rather than survival. The great megaliths are not about shelter or fortresses for defense but monuments to the gods.

Everything was about the gods and this began very early. Much ealier than thought.

The narrative was that we are much smarter today because we have evolved from the primitive ways. But the idea of primitive and knowledge is dictated by todays worldview. It may be that these ancient peoples were just as smart if not smarter and we have become dumber in some ways.

Its just that what we consider being smart or knowledgable today is based on westernised ideas that make other ways of knowing primitive or superstition. Its a western centric view of knowledge.

Strong in Him · Saturday at 2:02 AM

Apple Sky said:
I agree

Good.
So your statement

Apple Sky said:
There's three things here that God didn't create, the solar system, the planets & the Galaxies

is untrue. There is nothing that wasn't created by God.

Apple Sky said:
so this must include the firmament or better known as the raqia.

Hardly anyone knows the Hebrew word "raqia" - the firmament, or expanse, is better known as the sky, Genesis 1:8.

Apple Sky said:
The term "raqia" (or "raqiya") is the original Hebrew word for "firmament," which refers to the "expanse" or "solid surface" of the sky in biblical cosmology, as described in Genesis.

Genesis does not say that the firmament is solid.

Apple Sky said:
If this is true then how the heck do these rockets get through.

a) it's not true.
b) the quote says "Biblical cosmology" - that means what people in Bible times believed about the universe, planets, stars and so on. As people didn't have any of the technology that we have today and had not explored/studied the universe they had no idea about the kind of things that we know now. It's the same in the NT. Jesus told the disciples to preach the Gospel; he didn't say "get on a plane", translate the Bible into Swahili, or get a computer and learn about digital evangelism". The Apostles had no idea these things would be possible.
c) you're wondering how a rocket, made from metal and travelling at a high speed can break through a solid firmament that isn't there?
If there was a solid thing up in the sky called a firmament, what is it supposed to be made of? Glass? Crystal? You don't think a rocket would be able to smash through that?

Apple Sky said:
King James Bible
And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. Ezekiel 1:22

So?
That talks about the colour of "the likeness of the firmament" - it does not say "the firmament is made of crystal."

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