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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

Look at these cuts. Do you notice they suddenlt stop 3/4 of the way through. In other words they have not been cut with a passing saw. The sudden stop shows this was not because of a saw which requires an even cut across the entire surface and then cutting down. even if uneven would still need to go completely across the surface to enable the saw to go back and forth.

This sudden stop is more aligned with a modern electric circular saw that can cut into and not across a stone. The cut does not go through the top of the rock but only inches deep. Yet the other end is also deep with a sudden stop. Therefore restricting passes with a hand saw.

I have actually done this with wood and a hand say and you have to spend ages with tiny passes that go nowhere. So ofcourse you get the circular saw and and its not problem to cut deep in one position.

The clear narrow and fine cut is more like a machine cut than one from sawing and abrasion which grinds. Plus why would they bother spending long days cutting 3 times a rock that looks like a leftover or test run.

View attachment 369251

Theres no way to pass a hand saw through this cut as there is another rock in the way. Once again it looks like the signature of a machine cut that goes into the rock.

View attachment 369249

Saying that because we cannot find what possibly caused this does not negate the signatures don't match the proposed tools in the records.
This is amateur hour, no background information such as whether the rocks are granite or limestone, location, or the civilization involved.
The first image looks very much like a circular diamond tipped saw was used which means it was done in modern times.
The reason why I am confident about this is the second image is a stark opposite, why is the grove is so shallow and open if they had the capabilities of producing groves as in the first image.

The groove in the second image is a clear signature of a copper saw with a water abrasive slurry most likely sand.
So the question is how was the grove cut around the corner assuming this is an Egyptian stone; the answer is very simple they drilled a hole in the corner. We know the Egyptians had the capability of drilling small holes in granite as evidenced at the Aswan granite quarries.
The purpose of the hole was to allow the copper saw to pivot and change direction of the cut and I believe this technique is also used in carpentry.

So rather than being the death knell of abrasion cutting using a copper saw, the second image reinforces it.
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Can you imagine love in heaven?

God has suffered, experienced unpleasant emotions with his love for Israel and the church. But he hates divorce which seems like human limitations. So He keeps on going. Chastisement is love. Attachment is love. I see your points about human love and love in general. It is painful to experience. But in heaven that’s something else altogether. A meeting of minds- love. Love for love - no separation, no end or fear. No pain or hardship or sin. It’s perfect where we are not. That’s why God endures us because of His promise to the imperfect never to leave. Perfect love casts out fear because fear hath torment. Those who feareth are not made perfect in love. To be made perfect in love is somewhat attainable on earth. :)
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Well, off we go

Just atrocious! Wind is a great technology - if sited correctly. It works at different times to solar - so they complement each other. Overbuild enough wind and solar across the continent - and you can get closer to a reliable grid from LIVE renewables minimising expensive storage. Sure - it's got to be sited correctly. While I'm excited Australia has heaps of solar, our wind takes a while to get through legislation - and they've just approved a REALLY BAD site down in Tasmania where there's an extremely endangered parrot - the cute little orange belly parrot. But as long as biologists and environmental agencies are actually DOING THEIR JOB (the Tasmanian one sounds compromised) - an approve the right wind farm in the right spot - it's a great technology!

But it gets worse. As I've shared elsewhere, the BBB punishes renewables and other green tech and climate science and now even medical science so bad that a huge brain drain is about to start.

Matt Ferrell of "Undecided" fame explores the health costs, lost factory costs, infrastructure costs, and talent costs as "brain drain" accelerates and Europe and China poach American scientists. Up to 75% are considering fleeing - and it takes DECADES to woo them back.

Rather than helping the economy, Trump's BBB has shot it in the foot, both kneecaps and a kidney as well! If it isn't reversed soon - it's going to take America DECADES to recover.

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Trump to sign executive order directing AG to prosecute flag desecration

Your admission of guilt is noted, though if you’re going to pull a me to spare yourself the embarrassment of admitting I bested you on another topic, at least use the gif. So…

View attachment 369283
Okay. "Sure Jan" is an admission of guilt to you. I will remember that the next time you use it so I am not confusing it with passive aggressive dismissal. Would you like to address the OP topic now?
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The Receptive Pulpit of Tongues

If i may I'll share a little on grieving the Holy Spirit and at least what it means to me.

Psalm 78:40-41 (KJV)
40 How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert!
41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Ephesians 4:29-32 (KJV)
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Seems like more things grieve God than what I had previously thought. Our speech for sure, but anything that exalts itself against God is grieving.
I can recall services where there is resistance to God, in a way there is sort of a mass resistance to what God wants to do. Religious traditions can be the culprit. We always think we know so much but in reality are knowledge of the move of God is far more limited.
Matthew 9:24-26 (KJV)
24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
26 And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land.

Yes, we too can scorn the very thing that God wants to do. Jesus had to put those people out before he brought this woman back to life. There are a lot of do's and don't s in some churches too concerning the gifts of the spirit. I always feel like the leader in charge is an orchestra leader. They have to control things but not so much as to stifle them. Most I think lean to limiting anything unusual or outside their own understanding. But Jesus ministered sometimes in unusual ways.

I once was in a really free church and a woman would go around the congregation waving a banner during worship. I kind of thought it was distracting and one service I basically had a scornful attitude concerning it. In this state of mind I tried see if God too thought it was out of order. Interestingly, the next time she passed by the presence of God just hit really hard. I might question unusual things again, but I will try to do it in a way that is not judgmental and negative. I think it is best to shelve our own preconceptions and let God rule in every service and extend grace to those trying to do what God has asked them. Sure some things fall flat and seem to be of the flesh, but I think those are helpful learning experiences.
A church leader does have to stop distractions whenever possible because Satan will try and bring someone forward that will shut down what God wants to do. An example for this occurred when I was at a downtown mission church that was basically set up in a homeless shelter. The speaker that day was wrapping things up and just starting to offer salvation. The Holy Spirit was moving, when suddenly a man went up and told the preacher that the U.S. President had been shot. So, he immediately shut down the salvation appeal and went straight to praying for the President ( I think it was as far back as the second Bush). When he tried to switch back to salvation, the message was now totally flat. The shift of gears to the false report hampered what God was going to do. The minister should have listened and discerned but I am sure he is more careful since then. Flowing in God requires some risk taking, some trust of other believers, and total dependence on God. Our own ambitions need to be checked.

Other grieving is personal sin. like our speech or other characteristics that are mentioned in the scripture above. We do not have to feel condemned though, God does use imperfect vessels. he seems to shun human confidence and self image and will sometimes chooses the weak things of the world to confound the wise. (I Cor 1:27). Those that especially think they can not do what God is asking, are often the one's being called to do something.

i once attended a Phil Driscoll concert. his message was along the lines of allowing God to move and expecting the things of God, even if they are unusual. After the message he was playing some songs and I felt led to swing dance. Even I thought how unusual, but given the message I just said Ok, God but I can't do this alone. So I asked a woman I brought there is she felt Ok to swing dance right there in the aisle of the service. She amazingly said yes, and we danced well enough, but I could feel the brakes of the audience at least to some extent. No one asked us to stop, but even Phil Driscoll seemed a bit surprised. I still believe it was God though I am sure that some would object to it as improper. I suppose a weak conscience though will not permit most things. Sort of like I might try to judge a Christian cover of a secular song used during a church service. The rock song lyrics are just changed to Godly one's. If it brings additional people to the seats, is it worth it? I think so. No one should go so far as to alter the word of God but God uses lots of unusual things and actions sometimes. You have to love freedom in Christ.
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Trump to sign executive order directing AG to prosecute flag desecration

Sure Jan.
Your admission of guilt is noted, though if you’re going to pull a me to spare yourself the embarrassment of admitting I bested you on another topic, at least use the gif. So…

IMG_8882.gif
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The USA's 250th birthday to be celebrated with Octagon UFC/MMA fight, possibly on the White House South Lawn

The left goes on and on about supporting the working class. But when it comes to sports the working class love, look at how snooty they get.
That's rich. We're trying to support them with healthcare, jobs, and food security. 'The left' isn't suppressing the UFC. Putting the Octagon on the South Lawn doesn't somehow make UFC accessible to the nation's workers, starving for entertainment. It's already readily available to everyone.
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What to do about a bad heart?

Sweet child, God is not angry at you, and if you knew His heart for you then you would not be angry at Him. Being angry at Him simply means you don't understand what is going on, you are hurting somehow, the confusion has made you think negative things about Him, and His heart is hurting for you even if you can't understand how that is possible. God IS love, He doesn't "do" love. He never stops loving you for any reason (1 John 4:8).

God the Son did not show up in the world through a woman, walk among evil men for 33 years, allow them to beat him until He could not be recognized, and nail Him to a wooden cross until He died in agony for you, all for you to think He cannot be trusted. No one dies for someone they do not truly love, and only He really truly loves you and stays with you even with your hard feelings toward Him. (John 15:13 - Genesis 16:13)

1 John 4:9-10
In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1 John 4:19
We love Him because He first loved us.

God loved all of us before we ever loved Him back, and He is loving you right now even if you don't feel much love toward Him. God proved His insane love for you by sending His Son Jesus to die for you before you loved Him, not after (Romans 5:8).

Don't you know that Peter the disciple cursed and disowned the Lord Jesus practically to His face (Matthew 26:74)? Don't you know the Lord Jesus knew Peter was going to do that seeing as He told Peter in advance that he would do it (Matthew 26:34)? And do you know that the Lord Jesus was not only not mad at Peter at any time, but was praying to the Father and forgiving Peter in advance and loving Peter every moment before and after the event (Luke 22:32)?

Love does not count wrongs against it, and while there is a God of justice in Heaven, He sent His Son to die for you so that He could love you in spite of your mistakes.

1 Corinthians 13:5
Berean Standard Bible
It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no account of wrongs.

Romans 8:32 says that if God gave His Son's life to us to save us, what will He not do for us?! God has made a solemn promise that He would not be angry at you (Isaiah 54:9) and God cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18).

No no, if you are angry at God it is because someone has whispered in your ear that He is not good and you are believing it somehow and in some way, but we know He is good. I think you know He is good, and I think you feel abandoned somehow, when He is always with you and never leaves you (Hebrews 13:5 - Matthew 28:20).

What I think you need to do, is be brutally honest with Him and have a talk. I think you need to give Him what you are carrying around and holding on tight to so He can fix it (1 Peter 5:7).

He already knows what you are thinking, what you are feeling, what is upsetting you exactly, and why you are holding on to it. He still has not left you, He still loves you, His heart is aching to help you and love on you, and He refuses to force you to come to Him. Love does not force people to come to them and interact with them against their will. You are His Child and He is hurting for you right now and wants to fix this for you.

He will never turn you away under any circumstances (John 6:37) and He will use all of this situation for your good (Romans 8:28).

If you are feeling condemned because of your feelings, know that you are not if you are in Christ (Romans 8:1) and that you never will be even if your heart is telling you such things (1 John 3:20).

Again, take your heart and everything you are feeling to Him and put one step in His direction, and you will know He is there and that He cares (1 Peter 5:7). Just talk to Him. You do not have a bad heart, just a hurting heart, and an afraid heart, and fear is a control mechanism used by the enemy. Don't let that keep you from the one that loves you with all of His being. You simply need to see how much He really loves you and when you do, and you listen in your heart to Him speaking to you, He will lift you up.

The fact it is bothering you shows He lives inside of you, do not doubt your conversion. Remember that you will always be His Child and no one can take you out of His hand, not even you (John 10:28).

I am praying for you.

Isaiah 54:10
For the mountains shall depart And the hills be removed, But My kindness shall not depart from you, Nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,” Says the LORD, who has mercy on you.
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"If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail," President Donald Trump said as he signed executive orders in the Oval Office on Monday.

Trump is attempting to tie flag burning to various state laws that prohibit altercations cause by "fighting words" in the manner that those laws have been upheld by the Supreme Court.

But the Supreme Court was very, very specific as to what "fighting words" mean.
Agreed. Either this is a paper tiger, where no possible instance is going to rise to the level of 'fighting words'...

or the courts will suddenly sway and 'fighting words' will become more inclusive, and this will curtail free speech rights.
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A conversation about unity.

I honestly begin to think that our interlocutors do not understand what is at stake, I think that they do not realise that you either have The church that Christ founded, or you have a human institution whose contents, beliefs, practises are entirely up to The people there and they can determine them by democratic vote. in such a church The truth doesn't matter. It's opinion that counts. everybody's got an opinion. and that kind of makes opinions a little bit worthless
Their willingness to compromise in pursuit of unity shows us all how shallow their beliefs are.
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Trump to sign executive order directing AG to prosecute flag desecration

I said this in the other flag burning thread, and I'll repeat it here:

Trump is attempting to tie flag burning to various state laws that prohibit altercations cause by "fighting words" in the manner that those laws have been upheld by the Supreme Court.

But the Supreme Court was very, very specific as to what "fighting words" mean. "Fighting words" as defined by the Supreme Court (and as has been applied by state courts) are not something that merely make some given Tom, Dick, or Harry somewhere angry enough to take a poke at someone.

The US Supreme Court, in Chaplinsky v New Hampshire, defined "fighting words" as speech directed at a specific person, face-to-face, and so personally insulting or provocative that it is likely to cause that individual to fight back right then and there.
That is correct. So there should be no reason for anyone to be upset with Trump's EO.
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Trump to sign executive order directing AG to prosecute flag desecration

I didnt weaponize anything. I only pointed out the fact that white women on the thread are trying to explain racism to black men. Some would call that "whitesplaining."
You weaponized my race and yours, literally, just above. And I repeat, you no idea what it’s like to be a woman but you claimed more about the subject than I do and it didn’t bother you.

So, again, you can feign ignorance and play these games with other people, but you’re not going to get anywhere with me.
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Trump to sign executive order directing AG to prosecute flag desecration

I said this in the other flag burning thread, and I'll repeat it here:

Trump is attempting to tie flag burning to various state laws that prohibit altercations cause by "fighting words" in the manner that those laws have been upheld by the Supreme Court.

But the Supreme Court was very, very specific as to what "fighting words" mean. "Fighting words" as defined by the Supreme Court (and as has been applied by state courts) are not something that merely make some given Tom, Dick, or Harry somewhere angry enough to take a poke at someone.

The US Supreme Court, in Chaplinsky v New Hampshire, defined "fighting words" as speech directed at a specific person, face-to-face, and so personally insulting or provocative that it is likely to cause that individual to fight back right then and there.
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The Falsifiability Criterion

Many fundamentalist theists want to reject the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection because they are not convinced by the available evidence to believe it has been proven true (Spoiler Alert: Nothing is ever proven absolutely true in science). These theists tend to reference skeptical counter-arguments from apologists and/or so-called "experts" who operate under the notion that divine creation should be the default position until the evidence they are demanding for the Theory of Evolution is provided as proof. The problem with demanding proof for the truth of Evolution is that science does not function to prove any of its hypotheses are absolutely true, and there are very good reasons for this.

To begin with, science requires its hypotheses to be falsifiable. The hypothesis that claims species evolve through a process of natural selection is, indeed, potentially falsifiable. Every time a qualified and reputable scientist conducts an experiment in a relevant field, there is an opportunity for the results to disprove the Theory of Evolution. In fact, the exact purpose of every scientific experiment is to try and disprove the corresponding hypothesis. So, what justification do scientists have for not attempting to prove their hypotheses are true? Isn't the primary purpose of evidence collection to prove a claim is true? No, such a perspective on the role of evidence would consistently leave scientists and their conclusions susceptible to Confirmation Bias. Accordingly, the Falsifiability criterion has been instituted as a mitigation for the possible influence of confirmation bias.

To understand how the falsifiability criterion secures the unmatched credablity and reliability of all currently accepted scientific theories, it is necessary to explore a little bit of philosophy. Let's begin with the Problem of Induction. Inductive reasoning is demonstrably unreliable when evaluating a claim because the resulting conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from the supporting evidence. An example of this fact is the inductive argument for the claim that all swans are white. At one point in history, swans had only ever been observed to be white in color. Therefore, it seemed reasonable to inductively infer from the evidence available at the time that all existing swans must be white. But how could the truth of this claim be verified to rule-out the possibility of confirmation bias?

To verify the claim's truth, every individual swan in existence would have to be observed to determine if all are white in color. Obviously, this evidence is not reasonably obtainable. Consequently, the possibility for a different colored swan existing somewhere unobserved could not be reliably ruled-out. So, the truth of the claim that all swans are white turned out to be Underdetermined by the available evidence. Therefore, the possibility of confirmation bias could not be ruled-out. However, it is important to note that a single observation of a different colored swan would function to reasonably falsify the claim.

As it happened, someone did eventually observe a black swan in Australia. This discovery reasonably demonstrated that the claim, "all swans are white," was a product of confirmation bias after all. So, while it wasn't possible to observe every individual swan in existence at the time to determine the claim's truth value, it was possible to reasonably falsify it. It logically followed from this outcome that falsifiability was a more reliable and justifiable criterion for scientific claims than the verifiability of their truth given the problems of confirmation bias, induction, and underdetermination.

The fact of the matter is that these problems are not unique to science but apply universally. Science may have uniquely solved these problems by implementing the falsifiability criterion for its hypotheses, but nothing seems to logically prohibit this solution from functioning in non-scientific contexts as well. If theists want to reject the solution provided by the falsifiability criterion, then they must provide a justifiable alternate solution to the universal problems of confirmation bias, induction, and underdetermination that equally apply to their religious claims about divine creation. Otherwise, despite the quantity and quality of the supporting evidence theists might have for their unfalsifiable creation claims, the unresolved problems of confirmation bias, induction, and underdetermination will provide a reasonable justification to dismiss their corresponding apologetic arguments as logically fallacious.

Meanwhile, the falsifiable Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection continues to survive all tests designed to try and disprove it. Accordingly, it is widely accepted as the most reasonable explanation. Please note that the acceptance of this scientific claim does not necessarily correspond to any assertions about it being absolutely true. Sure, many science communicators may colloquially refer to Evolution and other scientific claims as being "proven true," but such phrasing should be understood to mean that the theory is falsifiable yet has never been disconfirmed by any quanity or quality of evidence discovered to date. Therefore, all arguments rejecting the Theory of Evolution on the grounds that the available evidence is insufficient to prove it is true are fallacious and should be immediately dismissed.

At the same time, any suggestion that some quantity or quality of newly discovered evidence will function to falsify the Theory of Evolution should be carefully examined and considered. However, anyone defending the Theory of Evolution must be mindful to identify and expose where intellectual dishonesty exists in the objections they encounter. In all previous circumstances where such invalid objections have been made by duplicitous individuals, the proposed disconfirming evidence turned-out to be either manipulated or misrepresented.

For debate: Any arguments theists could give to justify the acceptance of unfalsifiable religious claims about divine creation in the absence of a solution to the universal problems of confirmation bias, induction, and underdetermination.
Proving a negative proposition—that something doesn't exist—is impossible.
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Pray for People Battling Cancer (3)

My aunt is nearing her time. I don't like to put numbers on it, but it's soon. It's been very quick.

I've been praying that she can find comfort in the Lord: that he loves her & takes care of her & she can go to the Cross & he to let her know he's there. (She is a believer FYI)
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