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7thKeeper · Saturday at 7:25 AM

Aldebaran said:
Maybe for the same reason CA won't wait.

Texas didn't wait until 2031 because Texas redistricted before that? Kinda... Circular logic you got going there.

Freth · Saturday at 7:23 AM

I have a similar story myself. Welcome to the forums!

Hentenza · Saturday at 7:17 AM

JosephZ said:
That's a faulty comparison. Shar'ia councils are not "civil courts" and have no legal jurisdiction in the UK. Shar'ia councils operate much like Catholic tribunals or Jewish Beth Dins. They are not part of the legal system. They can only handle civil matters, are nonbinding, and have no legal authority, unless the country they are in grants them authority.

That's easy, the state provides legal protections for women and children. Shar'ia councils are voluntary, and if someone disputes a council decision, or especially if the decision is contrary to the law of the land, they can seek assistance through the formal courts.

Quite the naive view. From the UK parliament.

“We are fortunate to live in a democracy which enshrines the principle of equality before the law and is committed to the promotion of gender equality.

However, there are increasing concerns that many women and girls in this country today are suffering from systematic religiously-sanctioned gender discrimination, with particular reference to the application of Sharia law operating as a parallel quasi-legal system.

As the then Home Secretary Theresa May has said: “There is evidence of women being ‘divorced’ under Sharia law and left in penury, wives who are forced to return to abusive relationships because Sharia councils say a husband has a right to ‘chastise’, and Sharia councils giving the testimony of a woman only half the weight of the testimony of a man”.[1]

Respect for freedom of religion and belief

“In a free society, individuals must be able to organise their affairs according to their own principles, whether religious or otherwise. However, we cannot condone situations where rulings are applied which are fundamentally incompatible with our country’s laws, values, principles and policies.

Concerns

Arbitration tribunals which operate according to Sharia law and discriminate against women. Examples of such rulings include: inequality in access to divorce (for men often so easy it is effectively free and unconditional); polygamy (practiced by men who havemultiple ‘wives’ and numerous children); discriminatory child custody policies and inheritance laws; and the implicit sanctioning of domestic violence.
Arbitration tribunals which apply Sharia law going beyond their legal remit, including addressing cases of grievous bodily harm which should come to the police and the formal legal system.
Sharia councils operating as ‘courts’ with apparent legal authority.
Muslim women being coerced into agreeing to go before a ‘Sharia court’, council or Arbitration tribunal rather than the UK courts, or lacking information regarding any alternative system.

I have submitted a Private Member’s Bill, the Arbitration and Mediation Services (Equality) Bill, which seeks to address some of these concern. Its provisions would:

Strengthen the duties of public bodies to ensure that women are made aware of their legal rights;
Strengthen the powers of the police and judiciary to protect victims of abuse;
Prevent the operation of a parallel legal system by outlawing any person, such as a Sharia ‘judge’, falsely claiming legal jurisdiction. “

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/68996/html/

FredVB · Saturday at 7:14 AM

tall73 said:
I am done talking to you about my personal experience, because you will simply dismiss it. We can stick to the biblical evidence, which anyone can verify.

Of course you are. I did not expect one who says they were unhealthy from being vegan was honestly eating, and will not admit they were not, in the way I know to be healthy, from huge studies showing it, benefits to many individuals known from their change to this way, and benefits I have that I can believe would be from this way I had for well over nine years, and while Christians are especially resistant to hearing this I was Christian as I am now and have been for well over four decades, and I thank God so often that I was not so resistant, I knew verses better even well before giving up meat and several years later the other animal products.

Aside from the massive China Study and many other studies done earlier, there are newer ones still confirming it, other than ones with corporate business interests involved and invested in results.

Vegetarians have 12% lower cancer risk and vegans 24% lower cancer risk than meat-eaters, this study finds. An analysis of 79,468 North American Seventh-day Adventists in the Adventist Health Study-2 found that, after adjusting for lifestyle and demographic factors, vegetarians had a 12% lower risk of all cancers combined and vegans had a 24% lower risk compared to nonvegetarians.

The study tracked participants for almost eight years, matching cancer cases to state and provincial registries. Reduced risk was strongest for colorectal, stomach and lymphoproliferative cancers, with vegan diets showing notable protection against breast cancer in younger women and prostate cancer in younger men. Pesco-vegetarians had significantly lower colorectal cancer risk, while lacto-ovo vegetarians showed lower lymphoma rates. Medium-frequency cancers as a group, such as melanoma, thyroid, ovarian and pancreatic, were also less common in vegetarians.

Body mass index partially explained some differences, but dietary patterns themselves appeared influential, possibly due to higher intake of fruits, vegetables, legumes and nuts, and avoidance of processed or red meats, which are linked to carcinogenic compounds. No cancer type showed increased risk in vegetarians. Researchers highlight the role of plant-based nutrients and phytochemicals in reducing inflammation, supporting immune function and improving gut health. They caution that vegan diets should be balanced to prevent nutrient gaps, particularly vitamin B12, iron and omega-3 fatty acids, which may require fortified foods or supplements.

Strengths of the study include the large vegetarian sample, long-term stable diets, validated dietary measures and minimal confounding from smoking or alcohol. Limitations include reliance on baseline diet data, relatively small numbers for rare cancers and the observational design, which cannot confirm causation.

Source: Fraser, Gary E., et al. "Longitudinal Associations Between Vegetarian Dietary Habits and Site-Specific Cancers in the Adventist Health Study-2 North American cohort." The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2025).

Of course, I am always talking about the healthy way, not just anyway of avoiding animal products.

tall73 said:
This was already addressed. Those instances had various readings extant, so we know there is a variant reading. You are alleging changes where no reading that you advocate for exists. Those are not the same at all.

This is admitting the lack of evidence.

And there is no reason to think that this was added. The early church father witnesses to the fish reading show these readings were early.

The only folks with an interest in doing so would be those ideologically opposed to eating fish. And "I heard" is not evidence.

But perhaps you should spell out how that works. I am interested to know how the fishermen-turned-disciple John, for instance, didn't know how to describe what a fish was without confusing people.

This has been addressed previously as well.

Mark 6:43 And they took up twelve baskets full of fragments and of the fish. (NKJV)

Regarding Jesus' later statement, try reading contextually. The discussion was that they didn't bring bread, and He pointed out bread was not an issue. He also made a play on the bread with the yeast of the pharisees.

Mark 8:13-21 13 And He left them, and getting into the boat again, departed to the other side. 14 Now the disciples had forgotten to take bread, and they did not have more than one loaf with them in the boat. 15 Then He charged them, saying, “Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.”
16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “It is because we have no bread.”
17 But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, “Why do you reason because you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive nor understand? Is your heart still hardened? 18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments did you take up?”
They said to Him, “Twelve.”
20 “Also, when I broke the seven for the four thousand, how many large baskets full of fragments did you take up?”
And they said, “Seven.”
21 So He said to them, “How is it you do not understand?”

Didn't you just say what you could show us? Why have you not shown us? The only time you tried to your own source referenced eating fish as great, citing the example of Jesus providing it.

If you want to post evidence, put your primary source material, with links to it so we can all view it.

I have posted various church father quotes, with links, and various Bible texts, and you have not responded, other than to claim that all of the texts were doctored--but we have no record of it in the form of manuscripts without meat in those sections.

Here are some of the texts you are claiming were doctored:

Genesis 9:1-7 1 So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. 3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Deuteronomy 12:15 “However, you may slaughter and eat meat within all your gates, whatever your heart desires, according to the blessing of the Lord your God which He has given you; the unclean and the clean may eat of it, of the gazelle and the deer alike.

Deuteronomy 11:15 And I will send grass in your fields for your livestock, that you may eat and be filled.’

Exodus 12:8 8 Then they shall eat the flesh on that night; roasted in fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. (NKJV)

Leviticus 7:31 And the priest shall burn the fat on the altar, but the breast shall be Aaron’s and his sons’. 32 Also the right thigh you shall give to the priest as a heave offering from the sacrifices of your peace offerings. 33 He among the sons of Aaron, who offers the blood of the peace offering and the fat, shall have the right thigh for his part. 34 For the breast of the wave offering and the thigh of the heave offering I have taken from the children of Israel, from the sacrifices of their peace offerings, and I have given them to Aaron the priest and to his sons from the children of Israel by a statute forever.’ ”

Leviticus 19:5 ‘And if you offer a sacrifice of a peace offering to the Lord, you shall offer it of your own free will. 6 It shall be eaten the same day you offer it, and on the next day. And if any remains until the third day, it shall be burned in the fire.

1Ki 17:6 And the ravens brought him bread and meat in the morning, and bread and meat in the evening, and he drank from the brook.

Joh 21:12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord. 13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.

Luke 22:14 When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him. 15 Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer

Matthew 15:35 So He commanded the multitude to sit down on the ground. 36 And He took the seven loaves and the fish and gave thanks, broke them and gave them to His disciples; and the disciples gave to the multitude. 37 So they all ate and were filled, and they took up seven large baskets full of the fragments that were left.

Luk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Deuteronomy 14:22 “You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. 23 And you shall eat before the Lord your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the Lord your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the Lord your God has blessed you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. 27 You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.

Deuteronomy 15:19 “All the firstborn males that come from your herd and your flock you shall sanctify to the Lord your God; you shall do no work with the firstborn of your herd, nor shear the firstborn of your flock. 20 You and your household shall eat it before the Lord your God year by year in the place which the Lord chooses

Deuteronomy 12:20 “When the Lord your God enlarges your border as He has promised you, and you say, ‘Let me eat meat,’ because you long to eat meat, you may eat as much meat as your heart desires.

Luke 15:20-24 20 “And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. 23 And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; 24 for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry. (NKJV)
Abraham was not rebuked for eating meat, or serving it to the LORD:

Genesis 18:1-8 1 Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4 Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant.” They said, “Do as you have said.”
6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, “Quickly, make ready three measures of fine meal; knead it and make cakes.” 7 And Abraham ran to the herd, took a tender and good calf, gave it to a young man, and he hastened to prepare it. 8 So he took butter and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate. (NKJV)

Luke 24:41-43
41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. 43 And He took it and ate in their presence. (NKJV)

A baseless claim that all of those Scriptures are doctored is not convincing.

Here are various church fathers who do reference fish in feeding the multitudes, or eaten with honeycomb, or as a good gift, etc. some at quite early dates.

Ignatius of Antioch: Epistles of Ignatius - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

ccel.org

Ignatius Died around 108
To the Philippians

And how can He be but God, who raises up the dead, sends away the lame sound of limb, cleanses the lepers, restores sight to the blind, and either increases or transmutes existing substances, as the five loaves and the two fishes, and the water which became wine, and who puts to flight thy whole host by a mere word?

CHURCH FATHERS: On the Resurrection (Justin Martyr)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org

Justin Martyr 100-165
On the Resurrection

And when they were by every kind of proof persuaded that it was Himself, and in the body, they asked Him to eat with them, that they might thus still more accurately ascertain that He had in verity risen bodily; and He ate honey-comb and fish.

Philip Schaff: ANF09. The Gospel of Peter, The Diatessaron of Tatian, The Apocalypse of Peter, the Vision of Paul, The Apocalypse of the Virgin and Sedrach, The Testament of Abraham, The Acts of Xanthippe and Polyxena, The Narrative of Zosimus, Th

ccel.org

Origen 185-253
Commentary on Matthew

It must be observed, however, that while in Matthew, Mark, and Luke,5349 the disciples say that they have the five loaves and the two fishes, without indicating whether they were wheaten or of barley, John alone says, that the loaves were barley loaves.

Philip Schaff: ANF05. Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Caius, Novatian, Appendix - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

ccel.org

Cyprian 210-258
To Antonianus About Cornelius and Novatian.

23. The Lord also in His Gospel, setting forth the love of God the Father, says, “What man is there of you, whom, if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give good things to them that ask Him?”2494 The Lord is here comparing the father after the flesh, and the eternal and liberal love of God the Father.

Philip Schaff: ANF07. Fathers of the Third and Fourth Centuries: Lactantius, Venantius, Asterius, Victorinus, Dionysius, Apostolic Teaching and Constitutions, Homily, and Liturgies - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

ccel.org

Lactantius 250-325
The Divine Institutes

And when He had tarried there three days, and the people were suffering from hunger, He called His disciples, and asked what quantity of food672 they had with them. But they said that they had five loaves and two fishes in a wallet. Then He commanded that these should be brought forward, and that the multitude, distributed by fifties, should recline on the ground. When the disciples did this, He Himself broke the bread in pieces, and divided the flesh of the fishes, and in His hands both of them were increased.

I do not have to back off from asserting that if there are a number of verified changes to scripture passages found, as there are, it is possible and even likely there are more, that are not, maybe what is found is the tip of the iceberg. The scriptures warned of the scribes with lying pens.

What of this verse (not other ones, this! here is where something is missing that should be mentioned if it existed and there were not changes to other related texts, but here it was neglected), Mark 8:18-20?

There were the apostles and James who was the brother of Jesus.

It is all diversion from what I was saying all along that can't be shown otherwise, about God's will, it was what was shown in the beginning and God did not change, God never will change.

Maria Billingsley · Saturday at 7:10 AM

saved24 said:
Please pray, my brother has still not sent us a copy of my parent's will, as executer, we found out that he is supposed to do so. (we were told it was in probate, but that's not true apparently) Both my parents have passed, my Dad was a the last to pass a few years ago. They are dearly missed. <3 Please pray my brother sends us each a copy of their will. Of course I don't want my relationship with my brother to be broken so that is a concern too. He has broken ties with one sibling, but not our older sibling.

Prayers and advice. If your dad had a living trust then it was turned into an irrevocable trust and filed with the local county. You can obtain a copy there. If in fact it is on probate then the court will be the executor and fillfil those duties.

BCP1928 · Saturday at 7:09 AM

The_Lost_Sheep said:
I know this is petty, but it grinds my gears when people say we live in a democracy. We do not. We live in a constitutional republic. There are big differences, fundamentally and practically, between the two.
And it always seems to be democrats who make this mistake. Makes me wonder why that is.

Sure, why have elections at all, since we're not a democracy?

prudent_commenter · Saturday at 7:08 AM

ozso said:
I have no desire for a pet whatsoever. Not even a goldfish. Single people who have pets have them as a surrogate companion. Also single people and childless couples have a pet as a surrogate child. That's why they'll spend thousands of dollars on a vet bill and they grieve so badly when the pet dies.

Exactly.

I am seeing hypocrisy more and more everyday, but can't explain from where it is coming from.

Maria Billingsley · Saturday at 7:01 AM

The_Lost_Sheep said:
I wanted to introduce myself; my real name is Andrew, and am excited to meet some new people and hopefully make new friends.

I was raised Christian, but about 20 years ago I backslid and left the flock. I lived the life of a godless sinner, made many mistakes and did things that would make the devil blush. But Jesus hunted me down and after all these years, brought me back home last year, hence my username, the lost sheep.

I think that perhaps I can give a fresh perspective on some things, and certainly still have much to learn, as we all do. I'm looking forward to talking to you all here, see you around!

Praise our Lord,

Andrew

Welcome!

David Lamb · Saturday at 6:54 AM

Apple Sky said:
Pluto for instance;

View attachment 368960

Pluto is no longer considered a planet anyway, but who took the two pictures? Are you suggesting that Pluto has two eyes like the right-hand picture seems to? I know you put a laughing Emoji in your post, so I'm not taking it too seriously.

Strong in Him · Saturday at 6:51 AM

Apple Sky said:
It's not the way NASA portrays them. They portray them as planets in our so called solar system, one big lie.

The KJV mentions planets.
Planets and so on existed long before NASA was even formed.

Strong in Him · Saturday at 6:50 AM

Apple Sky said:
But I do have evidence, God's evidence.

Don't be silly.

If GOD had wanted to tell us the shape of the earth and how it works there would be a whole chapter on it - if not, a book.
I.E. "The earth is this shape - the moon is so many miles away - the earth revolves on its axis and around the sun" etc, etc. But it doesn't say that.
The Bible is not a science text book - didn't anyone ever tell you that?

Strong in Him · Saturday at 6:46 AM

Apple Sky said:
I believe in the word of of God.

As do we all.
Just not in the same way that you do.

Apple Sky said:
King James Bible
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Yes - it says nothing about teaching science, astronomy or so that you might know the shape of the earth.

You believe whatever the Bible says? Good; the KJV mentions planets - deal with it.

Apple Sky · Saturday at 6:41 AM

David Lamb said:
How do NASA's photos of planets differ from those of other photographers?

Pluto for instance;

Aryeh Jay · Saturday at 6:41 AM

And to suggest a "double standard" Maxwell would have to be much closer to Trump than she was. Unless you know something...

bbbbbbb · Saturday at 6:40 AM

orchid

Aryeh Jay · Saturday at 6:39 AM

ozso said:
Funny how the left went along with convicted person Michael Cohen's testimony aginst Trump. Even though one of Cohen's convictions was for lying to Congress.

Such a glaring double standard.

It is funny. It's also disgusting that Trump's former Jewish lawyer turned on his employer so quickly.

Jerry N. · Saturday at 6:35 AM

David Lamb said:
The account in Matthew 15 seems to indicate that He was not far from the Sea of Galilee:

“Jesus departed from there, skirted the Sea of Galilee, and went up on the mountain and sat down there.” (Mt 15:29 NKJV)

We don't need to assume that some of the 4000 were Gentile in order to show that the gospel was for Gentiles too, because we have plenty of instances where it is clearly stated that Jesus was speaking to Gentiles. The Canaanite woman, the centurion, and others.

You noticed that the Apostles were much more worried about the 5000 Jews who hadn’t eaten for 1 day as compared to the 4000 who hadn’t eaten for 3 days. If part or all of the 4000 were Gentiles, along with the Canaanite woman, the centurion, and others, they didn’t get it. It took supernatural events with Peter and a lot of discussion in Jerusalem to finally come to the conclusion that Jesus came for both Jew and Gentile. Even though the apostles were saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, they had to overcome prejudice. This gives a different light to dealing with fellow Christians and their paths to maturity. How could it have taken so long for the Apostles to understand?

Aryeh Jay · Saturday at 6:33 AM

The previous administration was very weak on immigration enforcement and letting these future murderous killers into the country. If only there was a way to hold accountable the slack and uninterested President at the time.

David Lamb · Saturday at 6:30 AM

Apple Sky said:
It's not the way NASA portrays them.

How do NASA's photos of planets differ from those of other photographers?

Apple Sky · Saturday at 6:28 AM

David Lamb said:
I refer you back to my earlier post, where I mentioned that other astronomers who have no connection to NASA take photos of planets. I even posted a photo of the moon and Venus taken by a photographer in Shropshire.

It's not the way NASA portrays them. They portray them as planets in our so called solar system, one big lie.

Aryeh Jay · Saturday at 6:20 AM

Larniavc said:
So two people guilty of sexual assault are trustworthy because…?

Because one of them was elected President three times, and the other was an innocent victim.

Larniavc · Saturday at 6:18 AM

I really don’t know; stanning for sexual predators?

I mean how does that even fly on this a Christian website?

1 Thessalonians 5:22

David Lamb · Saturday at 6:15 AM

Apple Sky said:
Not as NASA portrays them.

I refer you back to my earlier post, where I mentioned that other astronomers who have no connection to NASA take photos of planets. I even posted a photo of the moon and Venus taken by a photographer in Shropshire.

Larniavc · Saturday at 6:15 AM

Valletta said:
Trump ‘was never inappropriate with anybody,’ Epstein accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell told DOJ

Audio and transcripts of the interviews were released Friday as the Trump administration seeks to quash rampant speculation about Epstein, who was found dead in his Manhattan jail cell.

nypost.com

Of course. Soon the Democrats will come up with yet another claim about something.

So two people guilty of sexual assault are trustworthy because…?

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