• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

How Is One’s Name Written in the Book of Life?

It is notable that 2 Peter 2:1 uses the term “bought” in reference to false prophets, which could suggest that these individuals were once saved or redeemed. However, it is important to recognize that a single verse—or even a few verses—does not establish doctrine, particularly when the overarching message of the New Testament emphasizes that salvation is an eternal and freely given gift.

If a man were capable of maintaining his own salvation, there would have been no necessity for Jesus to come to earth and die on the cross—the Old Testament would have sufficed. Similarly, if a man could sustain his faith until death, the Old Testament covenant would have been adequate. However, God instituted a new covenant because human beings cannot achieve salvation through their own efforts or by simply enduring in faith. Salvation is not something that can be earned or maintained solely by human action.
So, you do not accept scriptural evidence that salvation can be lost. Please cite scripture evidence, apart from stating salvation is a free gift, as I have stated the path that God provides to make it a free gift. I will explain more about the free path to salvation.

You have not accepted the way I have explained the path that God had if the person is to get in without works which equates to making salvation free gift. If a person has to do works, it is not free.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. NKJV

Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. NKJV


As it has been explained to me bearing our cross is to put to death our self. Jesus made it plain that we are to put to death our sins, with His help, if we are to be His. Jesus has not promised us a long physical, rich or easy life on earth. He promised a free eternal life in heaven. Free because He paid the price. When we are born from above, we could be taken to heaven then. God gives us the opportunity to show our love by furthering His kingdom and bring Him glory.

Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives."
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. NKJV


God has made it clear all will be chastised.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

This is very early in the church history. In Acts 18 we read God said that there were many of His people in Corinth. In chapter 1 of 1 Corinthians Paul states quit clearly that the church was well blessed in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Because this happened very early in the Corinthian Church history most, if not all, the people are being chastised for the first time.

1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. NKJV

There were people in Corinth that could discern spirits. If a person was causing a disturbance, by drinking the wine and getting drunk, and did not have the Spirit of Jesus they would have asked them, at the very least, to abstain from taking the Lords supper. They probably would have ejected them from the church. If they were not Christian they would be without the Spirit of Jesus and without being chastised by God.

As Paul writes in verse 30 some went to sleep, meaning they died and went to heaven, because they did not quit drinking.

You have not accepted the way I have explained the path that God had if the person is to get in without works which equates to making salvation free gift. If a person has to do works it is not free.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. NKJV

Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. NKJV

As it has been explained to me bearing our cross is to put to death our self. Jesus made it plain that we are to put to death our sins, with His help, if we are to be His. Jesus has not promised us a long physical, rich or easy life. He promised a free eternal life in heaven. Free because He paid the price.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

This is very early in the church history. In Acts 18 we read God said that there were many of His people in Corinth. In chapter 1 of 1 Corinthians Paul states quit clearly that the church was well blessed in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Because this happened very early in the Corinthian Church history most, if not all, the people are being chastised for the first time.

1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. NKJV

There were people in Corinth that could discern spirits. If a person was causing a disturbance, by drinking the wine and getting drunk, and did not have the Spirit of Jesus they would have asked them, at the very least, to abstain from taking the Lords supper. They probably would have ejected them from the church. If they were not Christian they would be without the Spirit of Jesus and without being chastised by God.

As Paul writes in verse 30 some went to sleep, meaning they died and went to heaven, because they did not quit drinking.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. NKJV

Paul does say that drunks will not enter heaven. In verse 9 he states the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom. That would eliminate every person still in the flesh.

You have not accepted the way I have explained the path that God had if the person is to get in without works which equates to making salvation free gift. If a person has to do works it is not free.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. NKJV

Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. NKJV

As it has been explained to me bearing our cross is to put to death our self. Jesus made it plain that we are to put to death our sins, with His help, if we are to be His. Jesus has not promised us a long physical, rich or easy life. He promised a free eternal life in heaven. Free because He paid the price.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

This is very early in the church history. In Acts 18 we read God said that there were many of His people in Corinth. In chapter 1 of 1 Corinthians Paul states quit clearly that the church was well blessed in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Because this happened very early in the Corinthian Church history most, if not all, the people are being chastised for the first time.

1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. NKJV

There were people in Corinth that could discern spirits. If a person was causing a disturbance, by drinking the wine and getting drunk, and did not have the Spirit of Jesus they would have asked them, at the very least, to abstain from taking the Lord's supper. They probably would have ejected them from the church. If they were not Christian, they would be without the Spirit of Jesus and without being chastised by God.

As Paul writes in verse 30 some went to sleep, meaning they died and went to heaven, because they did not quit drinking.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. NKJV

Paul did write that drunks and also the unrighteous would not inherit the kingdom. The unrighteous would eliminate everyone still in the flesh.

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. NKJV

Paul later explained how Christians who did those things got into heaven. The drunks in chapter 11 got into heaven smelling of smoke.

If you disagree, please state your objections with supporting verses.
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Trump Calls For Ilhan Omar’s Removal From Congress

Yes. They have already been shared on these forums on multiple occasions.
Are you talking about this?

Ilhan Omar speech proved to be mistranslated but outrage continues spread

Republicans, rightwing figures and foreign politicians have seized upon the video despite proof the lawmaker was misquoted

According to the Minnesota Reformer, a Minnesota-based news outlet, which worked with two independent Somali translators, Omar said: “We are people who know that they are Somali and Muslim”, not that she was “Somalians first” as the video suggested.




Omar’s speech accurately translates to the following:

“As Somali people, we are people who love each other. We might have some disagreements, but when things get real, we are people who have each other’s backs. We are brothers and sisters, courageous people, and people who know they are Somalis and Muslims, and support each other and their brethren.

When we heard the other day that some Somali people—or who claim to be Somalis—signed an agreement with Ethiopia, many people called me and said to me, ‘Ilhan, you should talk to the U.S. government. What’s the U.S. government going to do about this?

My answer was that the U.S. government would do what we ask it to do. We should have this kind of confidence in ourselves as Somalis. We live in this country, we are taxpayers. This is the country where one of your own is sitting in Congress. As long as I am in Congress, no one can take Somalia’s sea, and the U.S. government won’t support others to rob us. Don’t stress over it, Minnesotans.”
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Another look at the moon landing.

These experimental mRNA drugs have what accumulating evidence shows are serious side-effects from the S-proteins that the altered genetics causes cells in the body to become S-protein factories to produce.

This was one of the main reasons why I refused to take the Covid jab, we used to call it 'Satan's Juice'.
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Political Pawns

People with different ideology have very different understanding and ways of interpreting the US Constitution.
Attorney General Jeff Sessions was a lifelong Republican and the first senator to endorse Donald J. Trump. Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, also a lifelong Republican, was appointed by President Trump. Former FBI Director James Comey was a registered Republican, and President Trump once praised Comey’s disclosure of Clinton’s email investigation as courageous. Attorney General Bill Barr, another lifelong Republican who previously served under other Republican presidents, was also appointed by President Trump. Christopher Wray, former FBI Director, has been a lifelong Republican. He was appointed Assistant Attorney General and led the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice under President George W. Bush. In 2017, President Donald Trump selected Wray to serve as FBI Director.

If these individuals' ideologies differ greatly from President Trump and his MAGA movement, why did he appoint them to top government positions? Specifically, why did President Trump select Christopher Wray as FBI director if Wray is perceived as a deep state liberal?
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Pregnant women taking Tylenol to spite Trump

LoL! I guess the company that makes Tylenol is one big wopping joke to you too, eh?
No, but quoting that source as though it has any authority and should be trusted is, actually, pretty hiliarious.

Why would I think Kenvue is "one big wopping joke" and how is what I wrote indicative that I think that way?
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Help with Mark 9:29

The Bible does not present fasting as a compulsory act or a requirement for being saved, though it is portrayed as a valuable practice.

While not fasting is not a sin in the same way that breaking a commandment is, deliberately avoiding this beneficial spiritual practice could lead to missing out on the blessings and growth that come from drawing closer to God. It's more about a spiritual discipline to be practiced rather than a rule to be followed without fail.

Neglecting prayer is considered a sin because the Bible instructs believers to pray continually and rely on God, and prayerlessness obstructs God's purposes and hinders the believer's spiritual life.

Prayer id the key to unlocking heaven's resources and receiving the power needed to overcome temptation and lead a righteous life.

Yes - there is a strong affirmation of Godly fasting in Isaiah 58 and the heart of it's function is this verse..

6. Is this not the fast that I choose:
To release the bonds of wickedness,
To undo the ropes of the yoke,
And to let the oppressed go free,
And break every yoke?
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The Trump DOJ goes "woke" and will target free speech.

1759256597013.png


Case of grad students targeted for pro-Palestinian language.

This case -– perhaps the most important ever to fall within
the jurisdiction of this district court –- squarely presents the
issue whether non-citizens lawfully present here in United
States actually have the same free speech rights as the rest of
us. The Court answers this Constitutional question
unequivocally “yes, they do.” “No law” means “no law.”

Judge finds Trump administration unconstitutionally targeted noncitizens over Gaza war protests

U.S. District Judge William Young in Boston agreed with several university associations that the policy they described as ideological deportation violates the First Amendment.
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Political Pawns

At this point, MAGA cares nothing about the Constitution. It's just a road-block for what they really want to do.

Or, considering the current Congress and Supreme Court, I should say the Constitution is just a speed bump for them.
That is absolutely not true. Conservatives are indeed upholding the Constitution. For you to suggest otherwise proves my point that people with different ideology have very different interpretations of our Constitution.
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It seemed so easy for the thief on the cross to be saved.

What do you think "given all things into his hands" means? It's not about physical objects.
It means the fulfilment of God's plan and Jesus' control of the situation.
Yes it is the means for the fulfilment of Gods plan, I read scripture literally and the plan is Gods will/ desire that none be lost but all are reconciled back to the Father.
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It seemed so easy for the thief on the cross to be saved.

Jesus is the judge of the sheep and goats, he was granted all authority.

The goats dont go back to the father (if they were ever from Him at all). They go to the pit
John 12:47 " Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it" The Father is the judge not Jesus.
Ephesians 4:6 " one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all" so yes God is the Father of the goats also.
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EX-FBI chief Comey’s post to ‘86’ Trump condemned by White House as attempt to put ‘hit’ on president

So Trump is the ethics board now too? Seems like a lot of work for one guy...
Not the way he does it - rage tweeting on the toilet at 3 am comes easily to him.
Maybe - now comes the trial.

If Comey's case goes to trial, and he gets convicted by a jury of his peers, then justice will have been served. So, too, will justice be served if Comey goes to trial and is acquitted by a jury of his peers. Something tells me that you would find only one of those results acceptable.
Or the judge throws the case out for insufficiencies. From all I've read, the charges were drafted very poorly by this newly hatched prosecutor, even taking into consideration that this is her first ever case.
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Another look at the moon landing.

If you mean, "what do you bring to the table?", i.e "what is your contribution to this discussion?", I've told you, several times.
i) I am a Christian and believe the Bible. The Bible does not teach flat earth; that is not it's purpose. I believe the earth is a globe and I believe in God.
ii) I am not a scientist so I cannot explain how the earth rotates, how something disappears due to the earth's curvature or anything else.
But I have no reason to distrust those who can. I did not study science at any level; why would I imply that I know more than those who have studied it at every level - O levels/GCSEs through to Masters' degrees? How can I argue against science when I don't know any to be able to argue against it? (By your own admission you don't either, which is why you rely on YouTube.)
iii) I haven't been to the moon nor landed on it - so why would I disbelieve those who have? What purpose would they have for lying?
What purpose would NASA have for trying to set up/perpetuate a hoax? Who is it going to affect, except other scientists or people from other countries?

The late John Stott said that the Bible tells us WHO created the universe; scientists tell us HOW he did it.
I agree with that. God has given us ALL things, including, to some, the ability to discover, to ask questions, to investigate/experiment. He doesn't have a problem with people studying his creation - why should you?
The categorization to me that is most useful regarding experts vs non-experts is that there are people - maybe 5 % to 20 % of the population - who have developed skills at doing two things:

1. dig - investigate and find factual claims and assess their veracity; and
2. think - for themselves; develop a rational mind.

People who have these skills in one area can apply them with some effort to any other area of study.
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Another look at the moon landing.

That may be something for the medics and pharmacies to debate.
I do not share your view that anything should be (uncritically) "left to the experts". There is a scene in the movie Lorentzo's Oil, based on a true-life story, where Lorenzo's parents (Augusto and Michaela Odone - real persons) had been studying for themselves what is causing the leukodystrophy (ALD) that their son has. In a meeting of parents with ALD kids, Augusto announces some positive results in adding erusic acid, from an oil, to his son's diet. Some attendees are adamant that the cure should be left to the experts to find while Augusto (an engineer, like myself) has learned the biochemistry and has a prospective solution to the problem. The group is highly divided over the matter.

I side with the Odone faction. In the end, they find a way to stop the advance of the disease and are assisted somewhat by a leading ALD expert who is also in the Washington, DC area (played expertly by actor Peter Ustanov) and who later attributes the breakthrough to the Odones.
But for the average person in the street, a vaccine is something that protects against the severe symptoms of a particular illness.
Yes, a vaccine; but the mRNA drugs do not meet the definition of a vaccine! - no matter how often they are referred to as such. The emperor has no clothes.
Getting a flu/measles/mumps/Covid vaccination means that should the person get flu/measles/mumps/Covid, they won't get it as severely as someone who has not had the vaccination. Their body already recognises the disease and has produced antibodies.
This applies to vaccines but not to genetcally-altering drugs. Please educate yourself on the topic.
Vaccines for Covid were discovered/produced. People were vaccinated and it saved lives.
Who told you this? CNN? MSNBC? Do some digging, please.
At one point, there was panic about the MMR vaccine; people stopped getting their children vaccinated and there was an increase in cases of measles and mumps.
These experimental mRNA drugs have what accumulating evidence shows are serious side-effects from the S-proteins that the altered genetics causes cells in the body to become S-protein factories to produce. I'll say no more but there is much more that can and has been said and can be found on the Internet, at places like researchgate.com and elsewhere.

It is not entirely clear that even (actual) vaccines do all that is claimed of them. (Polio is a case in point.) It is still an debated area of uncertainty. For instance, it is well-known that public sanitation that was introduced in the UK and US in the late 19th century is the dominant cause for the reduction of epidemics. See the book by Suzanne Humphreys (MD) and Roman Bystrianyk (medical historian) titled Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and the Forgotten History, (dissolvingillusions.com) for support of this thesis.
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Charlie Kirk shooting suspect Tyler Robinson could face firing squad

Even easier then - just link the posts. You've already spent more time telling me that you're not going to answer my question than it would have taken to do that.
I dont want to waste my time.
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Another look at the moon landing.

And what do you give to the table ? Zilch.
If you mean, "what do you bring to the table?", i.e "what is your contribution to this discussion?", I've told you, several times.
i) I am a Christian and believe the Bible. The Bible does not teach flat earth; that is not it's purpose. I believe the earth is a globe and I believe in God.
ii) I am not a scientist so I cannot explain how the earth rotates, how something disappears due to the earth's curvature or anything else.
But I have no reason to distrust those who can. I did not study science at any level; why would I imply that I know more than those who have studied it at every level - O levels/GCSEs through to Masters' degrees? How can I argue against science when I don't know any to be able to argue against it? (By your own admission you don't either, which is why you rely on YouTube.)
iii) I haven't been to the moon nor landed on it - so why would I disbelieve those who have? What purpose would they have for lying?
What purpose would NASA have for trying to set up/perpetuate a hoax? Who is it going to affect, except other scientists or people from other countries?

The late John Stott said that the Bible tells us WHO created the universe; scientists tell us HOW he did it.
I agree with that. God has given us ALL things, including, to some, the ability to discover, to ask questions, to investigate/experiment. He doesn't have a problem with people studying his creation - why should you?
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So - is Obama in jail yet? Or going to be executed? I thought this 'traitor' accusation was meant to be serious. :-)

He admitted it in public. He knew (or possibly directed) that Russia was probing personal emails. So weird that some people can't see what is right in front of them.

Press conference on July 27, 2016:
Donald Trump
"Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing."
And, almost miraculously, soon after Wikileaks receives a tranche of emails stolen from the DNC. Not quite Hillary Clinton, but close enough to create confusion when talking about "the emails".


An indictment filed by Robert Mueller, the special counsel, said Russian hackers attempted “for the first time” to break into email accounts used by Clinton’s personal office “after hours” on 27 July 2016.

That day, at an event in Florida, Trump invited the Russian state to search for the approximately 30,000 emails that Clinton was found to have deleted from her private server on the grounds that they were not related to government work.

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Trump said. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

No direct link with Trump’s remark was alleged in Mueller’s indictment.
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