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The 'coercive bargain' theory of Christianity.

So, this is about what I call 'the coercive bargain' theory of Christianity. I will say from the outset, it's an idea I thoroughly reject. If you are a parent, you do not demand your children's love because you will only do good to them if they comply, and you will torment them unmercifully if they don't. Similarly, if you love God, and your neighbour, you will do good unto them because you love goodness, and need no other justification. If you need some promise of reward to get you to believe and to do good, what is left is a mere transaction. And if you believe the alternative is eternal torment, goodness is reduced to some petty, tawdry insurance policy against that. And it's counter productive. For who would really love a parent who inflicted their power thus?

Virtue, it is said. is it's own reward. Pursue it, then, for it's own sake.

Best wishes, Strivax.

The Adoration of our Lord

Let me preface this with: I am in RCIA new to the Catholic faith but I've been seeking Christ since I vocally declared him as my Lord and Savior for about 4-5 years now.

My first Adoration was a big event where I didn't understand the language I didn't feel much. But I had a new found respect for our Latin American community and how reverant they are.

Second Adoration absolutely tore my heart apart. I was a crying mess, I was shaking and I never wanted the love I felt to end. I was deep in the woods away from civilization chaperoning young teens who hated being there and were very disrespectful.

Third Adoration was a beautiful musical experience, but I felt almost nothing at all. I enjoyed the perfomance and gave praise to God. A good night, but I expected tears or some kind of response to our Lord again, but didn't.

Tonight, was my Fourth Adoration; again this one was within our Latin community and initially I was simply happy to be present before our Lord, but I did not feel anything. I decided in my heart that I don't need to feel anything at all to serve him.

At the end of the Adoration, oh boy, the Priest came up, lit incense and began to pray in Spanish before the Eucharist.

I can't describe the outpouring of love that filled me, it was out of no where, my mind was totally empty, no thoughts, only my eyes fixed on our Lord in the Eucharist.

I don't think I've ever shed so many tears. My poor bible study buddy Sebastian who invited me thought I was in pain or something considering my state.

I wanted to share this, because I am so grateful that we have these Adorations!!!

If you know of one happening near you please GO!

I find myself in the Chapel often, and yes I sometimes have strong reactions there too. But there is something special about the Adoration with members of the church and a Priest there present with you.

US Rep. Ferguson voted in Georgia county where he no longer lives, records show

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Flood Geology

In a recent online debate (here), Inquiring Mind asked me to consider a different view of geology. Perhaps most of those rock layers and fossils down there had been formed in a single global flood in Noah’s day. Really? Do we still need to answer this argument? Flood geology, as this view is often called, was popular in the seventies, but it was so badly defeated, even its followers tend to avoid the debate. Instead, they often identify as advocates of Intelligent Design, avoiding questions of how all those fossils got down there. They know flood geology is impossible to defend against the attack of informed scientists. But that message doesn’t always get down to the troops, who keep on fighting, thinking the war is still going on. Hence, the need remains to address flood geology.

noahs-ark-gd1744e681_1920.jpg

Where did all those fossils come from? There are trillions of them. Mainstream geologists, of course, recognize that they were produced over a span of hundreds of millions of years as life progressed. But young Earth creationists cannot accept that explanation. It looks too much like evolution. So, they want another explanation. Many settle on flood geology. On the surface it sounds scientific. And it fits neatly with their theology. I understand the attraction. I was once there, devouring the flood geology line. But that was long ago, and my views have changed.

Flood Geology is Born​

In contrast to these modern flood geology advocates, creationists in the 1800’s were often quite open to old Earth views. Fundamentalists like Charles H. Spurgeon, C. I. Schofield and Benjamin Warfield accepted that the fossils we see deep in the earth could have been there for perhaps millions of years. Even William Jennings Bryan, the creationist lawyer in the Scopes Trial, testified at that trial that creation may have lasted millions of years.

These men saw little choice but to accept that the Earth was old. After all, geologists were finding rock layers down there with many strange fossils. British geologists had found two distinct rock layers in Great Britain that each had their own distinctive fossils. They called these the Devonian and Silurian layers. Where the two layers met, the Devonian rocks were always on top. So obviously, the Silurian rocks were laid down first. There must have been a past Silurian period followed by a Devonian period. Later, Adam Sedgwick noticed that rocks to the west were from a distinctly different third layer. He called these rocks the Cambrian layer. Where the Cambrian layer met the Silurian or Devonian layers, the Cambrian rocks always graded below the other layers. So now they knew of three time periods. They would soon learn of another period, the Ordovician. And wherever those layers met, they always followed the same order: Cambrian, Ordovician, Silurian, and Devonian.

trilobite-wes-warren-f0vDEW7VoHY-unsplash.jpg

Adam Sedgwick was a creationist, as were many of the other early geologists. They were simply recording what they saw. If God created everything, and we find there were different periods in the past when different creatures were on Earth, then these geologists figured that these creatures must be God’s past work. Perhaps God had simply made different life in different periods and had found the need to wipe out each previous period with a catastrophe.

And so, by the late 1800s, it had become clear that there was a series of distinct long periods of time with distinct life in the past. Geologists put together the beginnings of our familiar Geologic Column based on their observations.

geologic-column.jpg

Many fundamentalists had no problem accepting these long ages. Why fight science? Many found they could put a gap before Genesis 1:2 , which was a convenient place to insert these long ages. Others extended the length of the days in the rest of Genesis 1, so each day was actually millions of years.

But then, when Darwinism became widely known, it became obvious that these rocks were showing a picture of evolution on Earth. Many Christians could not accept this. They not only disputed evolution, but they also looked for ways to dispute the millions of years that life had been on Earth.

One creationist counter argument was popularized by Phillip Gosse in his 1857 book titled Omphalos, which is the Greek word for bellybutton. Gosse argued that Adam, to be truly man, was created with a bellybutton. Thus, Adam had the appearance of age, and of a birth that never took place. Likewise, all the fossils that scientists were finding were explained away as things that had been created that way from the creation of the world. Fossils in the Earth were like Adam’s omphalos. They were always just there.

The argument is silly. Why would God create all these fossils to look like animals that never lived?

There is overwhelming evidence that the earth is old, and overwhelming evidence that those fossils are real.

If we are going to state that God just created it that way, with all that history written in the rocks that never happened, why not just say that God created the world last Thursday, with all your memories implanted in you at creation? A God who could fake an entire history of the earth in rocks could fake an entire history of you in your mind. So, in the end, Omphalos arguments have little more validity than Last Thursday arguments.

There was an alternate view. Seventh Day Adventist, George McCready Price, taught that those fossils are the remains of animals that had been buried in Noah’s flood. But few people took his ideas seriously.

But then, in 1961, a hydraulics engineer, Henry Morris, and a theologian, John Whitcomb, wrote their book, The Genesis Flood. Morris and Whitcomb argued that all those rock layers had been deposited in Noah’s flood, and the flood sorted them out the way they appear down there. Morris promoted his view of geology and the flood and began the creationist organization, the ICR.

Creationists finally had a counter argument that at least looked more substantial than omphalos. Flood geology as a defined discipline was born. Although this hypothetical global flood required some miracles, flood geologists argued that, once things got started, natural laws caused those flood waters to form what we now know as the fossil record. These men called themselves scientific creationists. After all, they used what appeared to be scientific arguments to suggest that the fossil record was created through their model of creation. Yes, Virginia, there is a creation model.

But this was all built on a flimsy basis. The model totally fails to predict the rock layers down there. Clearly those layers came from something other than a global flood. Let’s look at what we see...

Excerpted from Flood Geology and Scientific Creationism at my website (www.mindsetfree.blog)
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Is Apostolic succession biblical?

From what I understand, the Apostles did select a new Apostle to replace Judas, which can be found in Acts 1:21-26 .

In other texts, such as Timothy 1:6 , Timothy 4:14 , and Timothy 5:22 , we see Apostles being reminded to "lay their hands" on elders, to confirm them as Church leaders.

...So in the Bible, we see the replacement of an Apostle, by the laying on of hands, as well as others who were selected for other leadership roles, by the laying on of hands as well.

Senate Passes Omnibus Spending Bill Funding Government Through Most of Next Year with 14 Republicans joining Democrats in passage

But that isn't the best part. The best part is that the Electoral Count Act was reformed in the bill so that a vice-president cannot unilaterally decide an election. I am heartened that 14 Republicans had the integrity to secure our elections and prevent further insurrections (including, to my utter shock, my own state's Senators.) There is also more assistance to Ukraine to stop Russia's imperialistic empire building in its tracks.

Since the House still holds its Democratic majority, it will sail through and be signed by the president, insuring that 2023 won't be marred by House Republicans threatening to shut down the government if draconian cuts aren't made to Social Security, etc.

What a wonderful Christmas present--to see our government working effectively together.


The Senate on Thursday passed a nearly $1.7 trillion "omnibus" spending bill to fund the government through most of next year, with 18 Republican senators joining all Democrats in sending the bill to the House, where it's expected to pass on Friday.

It came amid a showdown among Republicans over the sweeping legislation, which also includes reforms to the Electoral Count Act designed, among other things, to ensure that a vice president cannot unilaterally decide a presidential election. It also contains tens of billions of dollars in new funding for Ukraine.

The Orthodox View on The Papal Dogma of the Immaculate Conception

I feel that this is a very good summary of Orthodox Mariology, anthropology, and Christology and why the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception poses several issues if one understands Orthodox doctrine. I post it here because it summarizes so much Orthodox thought I felt it was a reference material.

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More people in the Netherlands giving up on faith: 58% are not religious

Residents of the Netherlands are continuing to abandon religion, according to research from Statistics Netherlands (CBS) that looked at the beliefs of people aged 15 and up. Non-religious people first emerged as the majority of the population in 2017, and since then they have continued to make up a larger proportion of society. Fewer than 13 percent of people said they regularly attend religious services.

The largest proportion of atheists and non-religious people was found in the 18-25 year age range, with 72.4 percent identifying as such.

The sharpest fall [in religious people] was observed among Roman Catholics. Some 27 percent identified as part of that religion in 2010, falling to 19.8 percent in 2020, and 18.3 percent in 2021. Although the proportion of Catholics has dropped significantly, it still represented the largest single religious group in the Netherlands.

The percentage of people calling themself Protestant fell from 18.0 percent down to 13.6 percent in 2021. During that time, the popularity of Islam also fell from 5.0 percent to 4.6 percent.


The drop in Islam is interesting, since many seem to clutch their pearls about being overrun, but I imagine that difference is around the same size as the limits of the accuracy of the poll.

Should a Christian just leave a hostile environment?

I lived in a big city. Not the worst part of town but within 3 miles from some of the worst areas. Keep in mind although cities seem big they are still in close proximity to bad areas, about 3 miles apart sometimes.

Recently less than one mile from where I lived someone was murdered at night. I have been targeted by criminals a couple of times. I have witnessed criminal activity in the city.

The crime statistics for where I live was that around 1 in 113 will be a victim of a violent crime.

I have never lived in such a harsh place, the area is bleak, a lot of people here are always on guard for good reasons and there is a lot of nasty personalities and rudeness.

Why did I live in the city in the first place? The reason is because I could make more money that way, that was the main reason. My parents told me it would be a good idea, even though they never lived in a city and in matter of fact when I grew up living with my parents we lived in a area where the crime rate was only 1 in 1,600! Much less chance than 1 in 110.

I have never for my 18 years ever heard or experienced something as bad living where my parents lived.

Currently I moved out of the city and closer to my parents.

As of right now the place I live has much less crime, it is 1 in 330 where I live now.

I am working towards moving into even safer areas.

Even though I won't make as much living in the city, I come to believe the safety is worth it.

Im not sure what to do....

So im in school again and im happy about it. Because of my credits in graduate by Dec 2023.. anyway. I get refunds from school. 3k in Jan and Feb. My Tax may be either 4/5k.

I feel like there's so much ai want to do. I want to move, get a car BUT since I lost CAPS( government funded daycare) they helped with the cost of daycare so much and without it.. I'll be shelling out 2777 a month for tuition for my kids.

if I use the 3k for Jan ill be left with 300bucks. Idkwhen CAPS will kick in. I called 4 times already and emailed and my application for it has been done since Nov 30th they told me they haven't touched or assigned my application and they're backed up and I have to wait.

I don't want to make the wrong decision and waste the money im about to get. I called other daycares and the prices are abt the same. One being 2030. My family won't watch the kids-- they don't have too. Just putting that out there incase someone asks about it.

I Just feel i have 2 ways to go about it. One is to use the 3k on the daycare until CAPS kicks in ( only issue is not knowing when it will) and prayerfully it'll kick in sometime in Jan or Feb. I'm just afraid it won't. I could find a job working from home but I'd be working just to put my kids in school.

Second is what my friend suggested. Just use the money to get a car ...BUT... daycares wont have spaces open until August. 7 months from now.

Idl im not aure what to do. I just dont want to waste money but i want to leave where im at bc its kinda toxic.


Any advice is helpful.

How to trust God? What does it mean?

Paul writes about trusting God in Romans. What does this mean? Does it mean I act with kindness because he did? Or just listening for Him and doing what He tells me?

Thank you!
BillTr
BillTr
In ancient greek the world faith means both faith and trust.Here it comes with the meaning of trust.
Trust in God because He knows what's necessary for your salvation.
An illness, an accident; Maybe.
You have to trust Him always.That's the most difficult part of our faith. Trust our God when all things go bad. At that time, God seems so distant and seems not to care for our prayers.
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Demonizing the unvaccinated was ‘incredibly dangerous’: Shawshank Redemption star Tim Robbins

Tim Robbins shared that while he used to get angry at people who didn’t follow COVID protocols, he now looks back on the attitude toward the unvaccinated as ‘incredibly dangerous.’

(LifeSiteNews) — An Academy Award-winning actor denounced the demonization of the unvaccinated during the COVID-19 outbreak and regrets his own anger toward those resisting standard anti-COVID policies such as masking.

Tim Robbins, famous for his leading role in the beloved film The Shawshank Redemption, decriedthe effect that COVID health “doctrine” “had on us as human beings” on British comedian Russell Brand’s December 18 podcast.

“We turned into tribal, angry, vengeful people,” Robbins said. “I don’t think that is something that is sustainable for the earth. That we start demonizing someone who doesn’t agree with our particular health policies and turn them into monsters. Turn them into pariahs. Say that they don’t deserve a hospital bed.”

Continued below.

PC Concern

This morning this little box popped up in the far right corner at the bottom on my windows 10.

It came and went so quickly, that if I had happened to be turned around at that time, I would’ve missed it.

Without. regretfully, writing down exactly what the message said, I went right ahead. And started searching for answers on Google.

I saw things talking about how to go to security center… Properties… Service status… And so on. But the directions they were giving me stopped matching what I saw on screen.

I’m guessing it isn’t something very serious, since the message went by so quickly and didn’t necessarily sound way alarming.

Please pray for me to know what to do, if anything, so that I don’t have any problems with my PC. Thank you.

Sean Hannity Testified He Didn't Believe Trump's Election Fraud Lies 'For 1 Second'

Sean Hannity Testified He Didn't Believe Trump's Election Fraud Lies 'For 1 Second'​

is in the Huff post and new york times but they claim Fox declined to comment and there is no link to the court transcript
Has anyone found the court transcript ?
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TSLA-Musk - How low will they go?

Seeing Tesla set a fresh one year low. How low will she go? Any predictions on the TSLA stock? I would say $74 within the next year.

Is befriending non-Christians a Christian duty?

I was careful to not word my title as "sinners" (since we all are), but I'm specifically talking about people outside of the Christian faith.

When I was attending traditional church, I knew someone who was going through a rough time. They wanted to know more about Christianity, so because I was "generally new" to understanding it, I couldn't answer some of the questions they had at that time. So I asked an elder in my church if they could help (I explained my friends situation briefly, including their alcohol addiction), the elder agreed to meet with my friend, in a public place, just so long as they weren't drinking (or drunk). I have seen this kind of unwillingness to engage with people outside of the church or denomination often and it makes me wonder, why? When Jesus himself engaged with "sinners" (although he did not sin) he never turned people away who needed his help.

Why then, are there people and church groups who treat the Christian faith like its an exclusive club? It's like the scripture that says "be in the world but not of the world", makes many people think they have to completely separate themselves from all "outsiders".

But did Jesus do this? No. He was accused by the Pharisees because he ate and drank with sinners, so they tried to make him "guilty by association".

Even Paul said in 1 Timothy 1:15-16:
“Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them all. 16 But God had mercy on me so that Christ Jesus could use me as a prime example of his great patience with even the worst sinners. Then others will realize that they, too, can believe in him and receive eternal life.

So what makes so many Christians today, averse to following this example? Because they believe they will fall into sin? Be "contaminated" by it? It seems counter-productive to me to have faith in God, but simultaneously shut ourselves within a church building or a group of fellow believers, and not step out to share the good news of the gospel whenever we can.

Luke 5:30-32

30 But the Pharisees and their teachers of religious law complained bitterly to Jesus’ disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with such scum?[a]”

31 Jesus answered them, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do. 32 I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent.”

Matthew 11:19

19 The Son of Man,[a] on the other hand, feasts and drinks, and you say, ‘He’s a glutton and a drunkard, and a friend of tax collectors and other sinners!’ But wisdom is shown to be right by its results.”

1 Timothy 1:15-17

15 This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them all. 16 But God had mercy on me so that Christ Jesus could use me as a prime example of his great patience with even the worst sinners. Then others will realize that they, too, can believe in him and receive eternal life. 17 All honor and glory to God forever and ever! He is the eternal King, the unseen one who never dies; he alone is God. Amen.
eleos1954
eleos1954
Befriend definition

(bɪˈfrend) transitive verb. to make friends or become friendly with; act as a friend to; help; aid. to befriend the poor and the weak. SYNONYMS assist, comfort, succor; welcome.
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YahuahSaves
YahuahSaves
Is that definition to show a "yes"?
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Why don’t Protestants like the Crucifix, and some the cross

Many Protestants seem to dislike crucifixes, so they only use crosses. Now, it seems like the more modern Protestants don’t even like crosses in their churches either.

This makes no sense to me. In 1 Corinthians 1:23 Paul was very clear when he wrote, “we preach Christ crucified.”

I’m not say we don’t need to preach Jesus risen, but I think we should do both.
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WanderedHome
WanderedHome
I see Christian Forums started limiting responses to 420 characters? What's up with that?... So, to severely summarize my response... it's the unfortunate result of iconoclasm. Same happening in the world with attacks against culture from the Postmodernists. Now, even mildly traditional Evangelicals and moderate leaning liberals are being labeled as bigots and thrown in with the racists of the extreme right.
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WanderedHome
WanderedHome
oh, haha, I see... I hit reply, but apparently it posted it as a quote?? Oh well, ask for more explanation if you want.
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What TRADITIONS was Paul Teaching?

2 Thess 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Tradition: a giving over which is done by word of mouth or in writing in plural of the particular injunctions of Paul's instruction, 1 Corinthians 11:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:15.

of the body of precepts, especially ritual, which in the opinion of the later Jews were orally delivered by Moses and orally transmitted in unbroken succession to subsequent generations, which precepts, both illustrating and expanding the written law, as they did, were to be obeyed with equal reverence, as opposed to the divine teachings, Mark 7:8; Colossians 2:8 , precepts received from the fathers, whether handed down in the O. T. books or orally, Galatians 1:14 ---

14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.​
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How did the universe come about?

This is the one question that changes everything, the game changer. Here's what I mean by that. If the Atheist answers and says "I don't know", than that Atheist has just confessed to being an Agnostic. If the Atheist answers and says "The purple people eater created it", than the Atheist has just confessed to being a Creationist, with the creator being the purple people eater. If the Atheist answers and says "Nobody created it", again confessing a creator named Nobody.

Here's the thing, there was never nothing. There was always something. Nothing can't produce something because it can't produce anything...it's nothing, with nothing in it to make something, otherwise, it wouldn't be called nothing, it would be called something. Thus GOD - from everlasting to everlasting.

The big bang doesn't work because - "nothing" can not produce an accident, even by accident. The big bang can not exist without the Elemental "LAWS" : formation, compression, combustion...etc. Who made the laws?

In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth. What a breath of fresh air knowing that while we were laying in the dust of the earth GOD administered mouth to mouth and we became alive with a purpose - to express the righteousness of God to the whole creation.

Romans 8:1 19
19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the children of God. Halleluiah!

House GOP locates emails, texts showing Pelosi office directly involved in failed Jan. 6 security

"Leadership and law enforcement failures within the U.S. Capitol left the complex vulnerable on January 6, 2021," the report concluded. "The Democrat-led investigation in the House of Representatives, however, has disregarded those institutional failings that exposed the Capitol to violence that day."

Catholics need a restorative justice approach to the church’s sexual abuse crisis

Wounds remain. This was a chief conclusionof an independent working group on the clerical sex abuse crisis in the U.S. Catholic Church that proposed the following measures last month:

—Develop a national center with experts and practitioners to equip the broader church with practices of restorative justice that would accompany those who have been directly and peripherally harmed by abuse, particularly forums in which victim-survivors tell their stories and receive love, recognition and empathy.


—Establish a national healing garden as a permanent site of healing, prayer and accompaniment for victim-survivors of sexual abuse by members of the clergy and for the broader church.

—Institute an annual day of prayer and penance for healing and reconciliation for victim-survivors of clergy abuse and for broader healing in the church.

—Create trauma-informed training for clergy, seminarians, lay ministers, lay leaders and parish communities to communicate the realities and effects of trauma in order to compassionately accompany victim-survivors.

Continued below.
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