Flood Geology

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doubtingmerle

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In a recent online debate (here), Inquiring Mind asked me to consider a different view of geology. Perhaps most of those rock layers and fossils down there had been formed in a single global flood in Noah’s day. Really? Do we still need to answer this argument? Flood geology, as this view is often called, was popular in the seventies, but it was so badly defeated, even its followers tend to avoid the debate. Instead, they often identify as advocates of Intelligent Design, avoiding questions of how all those fossils got down there. They know flood geology is impossible to defend against the attack of informed scientists. But that message doesn’t always get down to the troops, who keep on fighting, thinking the war is still going on. Hence, the need remains to address flood geology.

noahs-ark-gd1744e681_1920.jpg

Where did all those fossils come from? There are trillions of them. Mainstream geologists, of course, recognize that they were produced over a span of hundreds of millions of years as life progressed. But young Earth creationists cannot accept that explanation. It looks too much like evolution. So, they want another explanation. Many settle on flood geology. On the surface it sounds scientific. And it fits neatly with their theology. I understand the attraction. I was once there, devouring the flood geology line. But that was long ago, and my views have changed.

Flood Geology is Born​

In contrast to these modern flood geology advocates, creationists in the 1800’s were often quite open to old Earth views. Fundamentalists like Charles H. Spurgeon, C. I. Schofield and Benjamin Warfield accepted that the fossils we see deep in the earth could have been there for perhaps millions of years. Even William Jennings Bryan, the creationist lawyer in the Scopes Trial, testified at that trial that creation may have lasted millions of years.

These men saw little choice but to accept that the Earth was old. After all, geologists were finding rock layers down there with many strange fossils. British geologists had found two distinct rock layers in Great Britain that each had their own distinctive fossils. They called these the Devonian and Silurian layers. Where the two layers met, the Devonian rocks were always on top. So obviously, the Silurian rocks were laid down first. There must have been a past Silurian period followed by a Devonian period. Later, Adam Sedgwick noticed that rocks to the west were from a distinctly different third layer. He called these rocks the Cambrian layer. Where the Cambrian layer met the Silurian or Devonian layers, the Cambrian rocks always graded below the other layers. So now they knew of three time periods. They would soon learn of another period, the Ordovician. And wherever those layers met, they always followed the same order: Cambrian, Ordovician, Silurian, and Devonian.

trilobite-wes-warren-f0vDEW7VoHY-unsplash.jpg

Adam Sedgwick was a creationist, as were many of the other early geologists. They were simply recording what they saw. If God created everything, and we find there were different periods in the past when different creatures were on Earth, then these geologists figured that these creatures must be God’s past work. Perhaps God had simply made different life in different periods and had found the need to wipe out each previous period with a catastrophe.

And so, by the late 1800s, it had become clear that there was a series of distinct long periods of time with distinct life in the past. Geologists put together the beginnings of our familiar Geologic Column based on their observations.

geologic-column.jpg

Many fundamentalists had no problem accepting these long ages. Why fight science? Many found they could put a gap before Genesis 1:2 , which was a convenient place to insert these long ages. Others extended the length of the days in the rest of Genesis 1, so each day was actually millions of years.

But then, when Darwinism became widely known, it became obvious that these rocks were showing a picture of evolution on Earth. Many Christians could not accept this. They not only disputed evolution, but they also looked for ways to dispute the millions of years that life had been on Earth.

One creationist counter argument was popularized by Phillip Gosse in his 1857 book titled Omphalos, which is the Greek word for bellybutton. Gosse argued that Adam, to be truly man, was created with a bellybutton. Thus, Adam had the appearance of age, and of a birth that never took place. Likewise, all the fossils that scientists were finding were explained away as things that had been created that way from the creation of the world. Fossils in the Earth were like Adam’s omphalos. They were always just there.

The argument is silly. Why would God create all these fossils to look like animals that never lived?

There is overwhelming evidence that the earth is old, and overwhelming evidence that those fossils are real.

If we are going to state that God just created it that way, with all that history written in the rocks that never happened, why not just say that God created the world last Thursday, with all your memories implanted in you at creation? A God who could fake an entire history of the earth in rocks could fake an entire history of you in your mind. So, in the end, Omphalos arguments have little more validity than Last Thursday arguments.

There was an alternate view. Seventh Day Adventist, George McCready Price, taught that those fossils are the remains of animals that had been buried in Noah’s flood. But few people took his ideas seriously.

But then, in 1961, a hydraulics engineer, Henry Morris, and a theologian, John Whitcomb, wrote their book, The Genesis Flood. Morris and Whitcomb argued that all those rock layers had been deposited in Noah’s flood, and the flood sorted them out the way they appear down there. Morris promoted his view of geology and the flood and began the creationist organization, the ICR.

Creationists finally had a counter argument that at least looked more substantial than omphalos. Flood geology as a defined discipline was born. Although this hypothetical global flood required some miracles, flood geologists argued that, once things got started, natural laws caused those flood waters to form what we now know as the fossil record. These men called themselves scientific creationists. After all, they used what appeared to be scientific arguments to suggest that the fossil record was created through their model of creation. Yes, Virginia, there is a creation model.

But this was all built on a flimsy basis. The model totally fails to predict the rock layers down there. Clearly those layers came from something other than a global flood. Let’s look at what we see...

Excerpted from Flood Geology and Scientific Creationism at my website (www.mindsetfree.blog)
 
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And so, by the late 1800s, it had become clear that there was a series of distinct long periods of time with distinct life in the past. Geologists put together the beginnings of our familiar Geologic Column based on their observations.
What this chart shows is nothing more than what you could call "stretched time."

It's just taking the time this earth has been in existence (6021 years) and stretching it out to a distance of 4.543 billion years.

Assume you live on a street that is one mile long.

Now stretch your street out to a distance of 754,526 miles (4,543,000,000 ÷ 6021) and segment that distance into three major segments called Cenozoic Junction, Mesozoic Junction, and Paleozoic Junction.

That's what geologists do ON PAPER, and it makes them look good; but they're wrong.

Bring that 754,526 mile street you live on back to its proper length, and all three of those junctions exist side-by-side.

Assuming they don't overlap.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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What this chart shows is nothing more than what you could call "stretched time."

It's just taking the time this earth has been in existence (6021 years) and stretching it out to a distance of 4.543 billion years.

Assume you live on a street that is one mile long.

Now stretch your street out to a distance of 754,526 miles (4,543,000,000 ÷ 6021) and segment that distance into three major segments called Cenozoic Junction, Mesozoic Junction, and Paleozoic Junction.

That's what geologists do ON PAPER, and it makes them look good; but they're wrong.

Bring that 754,526 mile street you live on back to its proper length, and all three of those junctions exist side-by-side.

Assuming they don't overlap.

Except that you don't have a single shred of evidence that your claim that world is only 6021 years old. Not even on paper, and especially not in the Bible.

You're arguing from a flawed premise to begin with.
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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What this chart shows is nothing more than what you could call "stretched time."

It's just taking the time this earth has been in existence (6021 years) and stretching it out to a distance of 4.543 billion years.

Assume you live on a street that is one mile long.

Now stretch your street out to a distance of 754,526 miles (4,543,000,000 ÷ 6021) and segment that distance into three major segments called Cenozoic Junction, Mesozoic Junction, and Paleozoic Junction.

That's what geologists do ON PAPER, and it makes them look good; but they're wrong.

Bring that 754,526 mile street you live on back to its proper length, and all three of those junctions exist side-by-side.

Assuming they don't overlap.
This post belongs in the conspiracy forum.

Why? For what reason have all these geologists and paleontologists and all the other disciplines that rely on the observations made by these fields lied about what's been found and how they measured the age?
 
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Frank Robert

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doubtingmerle

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What this chart shows is nothing more than what you could call "stretched time."

It's just taking the time this earth has been in existence (6021 years) and stretching it out to a distance of 4.543 billion years.

Assume you live on a street that is one mile long.

Now stretch your street out to a distance of 754,526 miles (4,543,000,000 ÷ 6021) and segment that distance into three major segments called Cenozoic Junction, Mesozoic Junction, and Paleozoic Junction.

That's what geologists do ON PAPER, and it makes them look good; but they're wrong.

Bring that 754,526 mile street you live on back to its proper length, and all three of those junctions exist side-by-side.

Assuming they don't overlap.
Wait, now you say the fossils would all be side by side if the time scale was condensed? I thought before you had agreed that the fossils might be arranged down there according to this scheme, but you argued that God deliberately set it up that way when he cleaned up after the flood.

Why would he deliberately set it up to look like evolution? "God moves in mysterious ways", huh?

At any rate, the column is neither 754,526 miles long nor side-by-side. It stretches 3 miles below the surface in Michigan and in many other places. And throughout the world, the fossils show the order of the chart I posted.

I thought about including your concept of God doing a post-flood cleanup at the bottom of my post, but I decided it was not common enough to merit a response. But I would be happy to address it. Do you think I should give you an honorary mention at the bottom of my post, saying this is one alternative explanation that you think is better than both omphalos and flood geology arguments?

By the way, this wouldn't be the first honorary mention you received. See the bottom of How Old is the Earth?
 
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Except that you don't have a single shred of evidence that your claim that world is only 6021 years old.
I never said it was.

I'm not a YEC.

What I did say though, is that, whatever age it is, it has only been in existence since 4004 BC.
 
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This post belongs in the conspiracy forum.
Along with anything else that doesn't agree with science?
Why? For what reason have all these geologists and paleontologists and all the other disciplines that rely on the observations made by these fields lied about what's been found and how they measured the age?
Am I calling them liars?

I'm saying they're WRONG ... not LIARS.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I never said it was.

I'm not a YEC.

What I did say though, is that, whatever age it is, it has only been in existence since 4004 BC.

Which is a claim you can't even back up with paper, nor the Bible.
 
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Which is a claim you can't even back up with paper, nor the Bible.
Get a calculator and concatenate the following three chapters:
  1. Genesis 5
  2. 1 Chronicles 1
  3. Matthew 1
That should do it.

(And Ussher did it without an electronic calculator.)
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Get a calculator and concatenate the following three chapters:
  1. Genesis 5
  2. 1 Chronicles 1
  3. Matthew 1
That should do it.

(And Ussher did it without an electronic calculator.)

And this is why it's a flawed premise. Old Testament is NOT a historical document and thus has no use to be used as the basis to work out the age of the Earth.
 
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doubtingmerle

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I never said it was.

I'm not a YEC.

What I did say though, is that, whatever age it is, it has only been in existence since 4004 BC.
If the Earth was created in 4004 BC, then it is 6025 years old. (There was no year 0.)

But that is not what the evidence shows.
 
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Old Testament is NOT a historical document and thus has no use to be used as the basis to work out the age of the Earth.
I don't use a calculator to work out the age of the earth.

I use a calculator to work out how long the earth has been in existence.

As far as the earth's age is concerned, it is as old as God willed it when He created it.

(You still don't understand embedded age, do you?)
 
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