Works .... who does them ...are they nessary for salvation

[Believes Gods Sovereignity]

Naaaah, not quite. James really said that faith with works is dead. The bible says that all men have faith. But it is what we do with that faith that makes it faith that is alive.

If you do not utilize the faith that God gave you, James says that it is dead faith. But if you utilize that faith to produce good works, it is the faith through which God will save you...

If im not mistaking, thats exactly what I said in my post. Lol. And I quoted directly the passage out of james 2, where it talks about a brother in need. But anyways, I digress. And I know, and believe what the bible says about it. Works do nothing to accomplish salvation, but they are nessecary for Growth as a christian.

 

[Chappie]

If im not mistaking, thats exactly what I said in my post. Lol. And I quoted directly the passage out of james 2, where it talks about a brother in need. But anyways, I digress. And I know, and believe what the bible says about it. Works do nothing to accomplish salvation, but they are nessecary for Growth as a christian.

Amen!!!!

 

[thereselittleflower]

It is an error to lump all kinds of works together . . . and it is an error to say justification has nothing to do with our salvation.


James makes it very, very clear that a man is justified by works, not faith alone.

Man is not justified by woks alone

Man is not justified by faith alone


Man is justified by both faith and works together . . one is no less important then the other, one is not merely the by-product of the other.

For a very thorough discussion of this see

http://web.archive.org/web/20010202073500/http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ50.HTM


Peace in Him!

 

[joevberry3]

What about someone that gets saved and then simply refuse to do any works whatsoever--are they saved?
God Bless,
Joe

 

[Andyman_1970]

What about someone that gets saved and then simply refuse to do any works whatsoever--are they saved?
God Bless,
Joe

If there is not "fruit" or a change in their life (new creation) then were they really saved to begin with?

I'll say no. Many people come forward and shake the preachers hand and "pray a prayer" but few really surrender themselves to Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

Many people "think" they are a Christian because the have a head full of knowledge, but Jesus taught that salvation is a way of life.

 

[joevberry3]

If there is not "fruit" or a change in their life (new creation) then were they really saved to begin with?

I'll say no. Many people come forward and shake the preachers hand and "pray a prayer" but few really surrender themselves to Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

Many people "think" they are a Christian because the have a head full of knowledge, but Jesus taught that salvation is a way of life.

I agree Andy...But we do still have Pastors that will tell that individual yeah your saved.

 

[seek]

As we throw this word around - "works" - did we ever stop to think about what that means? I believe we can't work our way to heaven, in the sense that there is nothing I can do for God to say, "ok, he worked hard therefore you can get in." On the other hand, what about a work from God? No work of man can allow him to enter, but a work from God??

...salvation is a gift, but it is conditional....you have to recieve that gift in the way God commands us to.

"For Christ died for sins once and for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God......In it (refering to Noah's ark) only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also - not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God..." 1 Peter 3:18-21

"...repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." Acts 2:38

etc, etc....

If you notice, some verses state we are saved by faith with no mention of anything else...others say by water...and still other verses, state by both. without getting too much into language....i was explained to by professors how it is implied that when it just says "by faith" or by "water"....that it is refering to salvation which encompasses both. If you notice throughout the Bible, when people accept Christ and repent....they are Immediatley baptized. they don't wait around....like for once every couple months to have a baptism....as soon as someone has recieved Christ, they are baptised.

We actually have to partake in something God commanded us to do in order to recieve the gift: repent and be baptized - as your "pledge" to God - in the name Christ.

I think that we must obey God's commands to be saved by the blood of Christ....and it is clear what God has comanded us to do. This by no means is a "work" that man has come up with to be saved. This is a "work" or "condition" we must meet to recieve the gift......because if we truly had to do nothing to recieve the gift, then wouldn't everyone be saved??

 

[msortwell]

For the believer, good works is a cooperative effort between the believer and God. However, the Scriptures certainly seem to give greater weight to the contribution made by God.

Phil 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
(KJV)

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(KJV)


Isa 64:6
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
(KJV)

By His Grace,

Mike

 

[aanjt]

For the believer, good works is a cooperative effort between the believer and God. However, the Scriptures certainly seem to give greater weight to the contribution made by God.

Phil 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
(KJV)

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(KJV)


Isa 64:6
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
(KJV)

By His Grace,

Mike

Mike,

As well, Christ gave great consideration for works. At the seperation of the sheep and goats, Christ turned to the sheep and said they are going into heaven for when he was hungry, they gave him food, when he was thirsty, they gave him drink, when he was naked, they clothed him, when he was sick and in prison, they visited him. The sheep asked when did they do all of these things. Christ said that whenever they did it to the least of them, they did it to him. He in turn said to the goats to get away from him for they did not do any of these things. The goats asked when did they ever see him sick and in prison, thirsty, hungry or naked. Christ said that whenever they did not do it to the least of them, they did not do it to him.

Can we work our way to heaven? No. For it is only by the grace of God. But, our works, if done for the glory of God and not for ourselves, is the fruit of our faith.

Yours in Christ,
Jen

 

[Andyman_1970]

"...repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." Acts 2:38

This seems to be a misunderstood passage.

The verb translated "be baptized" in this verse is in the indirect passive imperative (a command to receive; hence, passive voice in Greek) of baptizo, which does not give it the same direct command implied in "repent." The preposition "for" in the phrase "for the remission of sins" in Greek is "eis," unto or into, and it is in the accusative case (direct object). It can mean "for the purpose of identifying you with the remission of sins."

There is a good article on this at: http://www.carm.org/doctrine/acts_2_38.htm

 

[EternallySecure]

The Gospel is so wonderful! Not only are works not required for justfication before a Holy God, but God only justifies the ungodly who are not working, and do nothing more than believe on Him through Christ! James chapter 2 is not how sinners are justified before a Holy God. James chapter 2 describes how professing believers are declared righteous before men. The Lord through James is exhorting professing believers to get to work! To demonstrate the faith that they profess to have with works. He is NOT showing them how lost sinners are declared righteous before a Holy God.

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:4-5).

 

[Chappie]

What about someone that gets saved and then simply refuse to do any works whatsoever--are they saved?
God Bless,
Joe

Only if Jesus saves them. Can he, if he chooses to do so?

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Naaaah, not quite. James really said that faith without works is dead. The bible says that all men have faith. But it is what we do with that faith that makes it faith that is alive.

"we do with faith that makes faith alive" wow quite the statement chappie

2 tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus

Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of HIM

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under the school-master

If you do not utilize the faith that God gave you, James says that it is dead faith. But if you utilize that faith to produce good works, it is the faith through which God will save you...

present tense salvation is the only part that we have to show that we believe or not too... this is man's free will

God picking who will we Intially saved and future salvation is..... God's sovernity..... eph 1:4,2 tim 1:9, titus 3:5, 1 peter 1:2, 1:20, 2:4-5, 1 thes 5:23

In rev 20:12 the dead are judged by their works like in matt 7:21-23
and He knew them not! wow eph 1:4

thank God that I am judged by Christ work on the cross since He includes me at the cross since I believed. romans 6

John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that He[holy spirit] which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him patiencely took the cross, despising the shame , and is set to rest at the right hand of the throne of God the father.

awesome verse

 

[SPALATIN]

I never said that we are justified by our works. If we have faith, we will have works. They go hand in hand if our faith is alive and not dead. Jesus talked about works, it is very evident in Matthew 25. He said for those that did not feed the poor, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty, visit the sick and those in prison, they were cast into hell.

If you love someone, you show them by what you do for them, correct? You show your love to that person by doing things. If we love God, how much more are we to do this? Are we not to do any works at all? What if someone said that they loved you, but sat around all day, did not help with the children, cleaning, bills, did not even help bring in an income when they were capable of doing so (I know there are instances where a person cannot work). They did not even tell you that they loved you. If someone asked if s/he loved you, they would say "yes" but that would be the end of it. Would you eventually wonder if they really loved you at all?

God is our creator. I want to show God my love for Him and that is through works, through the work that He wants me to do. He doesn't want us to sit by and give lip service about how much we believe in Him but then refuse to do anything that He wants us to do.

A question. Is your faith an intellectual faith or is it a faith of action? Maybe we need to define what faith is first. For me, faith is defnintely action. It is beyond intellectual thought. Faith of action must have action. Works. Now when I say works, I don't mean go around boasting of what you do, because that means you want all the honor and glory (IMO). Show God how much you love Him. Do His will, do His work that He has asked us to do.

Yours in Christ,
Jen

Jen,

Is Faith a gift or a characteristic? How do we get it? Please explain your point of view.

Scott

 

[benedictine]

good works come of faith. Faith is neccessary for Salvation. However, Good works are not, but when one has faith, they do good works. One may do good works out of faith, but with faith, comes good works.
---Pax Christi

 

[Zoomer]

Good works have nothing to do with eternal salvation but are a product of faith by the Holy Spirit working through us. If works were needed to be saved, it would lessen the sacrifice that Jesus made because we could essentially earn our way into Heaven. Also, when works required for salvation, there is the fine line of how much is enough to be saved?

Faith, big or small, strong or weak, as long as it trusts in Jesus' merits, will SAVE. Saving faith is not contingent upon the amount of works one does, but is a gift of the Holy Spirit through the Gospel.

All our good works are tainted with sin. "All our righteous acts are like filthy rags," as Isaiah reminds us. Therefore, they cannot be counted for our salvation. Only the perfect, all-sufficient righteousness that Jesus accomplished for us with His perfect life, will be enough for our salvation.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

2 cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ 14 And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.Ezek 28:14 Satan is a cherub not an angel!15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. Rev 20:12

But as Believers we have this Promise

2 cor 5:21 For He[Father] hath made Him[Christ] to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made to be God's righteousness of God in him.