Could not sharing the Gospel effect your salvation?

[Peacemaker1]

"God knows those who are His." Just because you don't see any difference only means you have no discernment as of yet. "By their fruit you shall know them." Your judgment that God is not glorified by good works is wrong and contrary to scripture.


Good, even though you sing your own praises. Go do it, and stop demanding that others follow you.

"Should" is an ideal. Yes, we should all be mature Christians, and we should all do all to God's glory. My objection to you is about your demand that everyone do as you do, as if you want followers of yourself. Why isn't your love for your neighbor satisfactory to you? Why do you have to demand that others follow you? It sounds to me like you feel burdened about your efforts, as if you feel you're failing, and so you need others to be doing the same thing. Do you think that if everyone in the churches are doing what you demand, that it will save the nation?

Why make any demands at all? I'm not misinterpreting you. You clearly claimed that if anyone is not doing personal evangelism as you describe, they are not children of God. I'm saying you're absolutely wrong in that matter. Your judgment is the very kind that Jesus said not to do.

Here is your misinterpretation of what I said. Your judgement is wrong and slanderous. I never said we can stay silent. No one is ever silent about anything they are doing, except those who can't speak. Everything we do sends a message, that we either trust in God or not. Anyone who is ready to give account of their faith can (and will) give testimony when asked. I'm saying they don't have to be an activist like you.

I've met people who claim to be Christians who looked like they were under God's wrath because of what they were doing. "By their fruit you shall know them." But not one of these people actually listened to the gospel preached, that I know of. Perhaps one day they will repent, that's not my concern, that's for God to judge. I do not condemn anyone, that's God's action. I object to you or 2ndTimothyGroup or anyone else who condemn other Christians for not doing what you demand from them. Every true believer loves other people in the best way they know how. But this whole conversation is about your judgment that if people are not excited to be activists for evangelism, that they are not children of God - this is the judgment that makes you a hypocrite.

I'm not misinterpreting you. I get what you're saying. I get that you have a passion for Ez. 3:18-21. But your claim that if someone doesn't do what you're doing, that they are not a child of God is a blatant disregard for the body of Christ, and you are wrong in this matter.

all your words there, are they closer to fables, or the word of God, what about being slow to speak ( our own words) or what about being judged by every word we speak, how are we judged by speaking Gods word when it saves all, if they are doers and not love in word and toungers.


Matthew 12:
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

1 Timothy 4:
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

James 1:
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

 

[Peacemaker1]

Or anything else. Its not a binary choice.

yes your words are better than examples, isnt that why the forum exists and why everyone likes talking on them.

 

[Peacemaker1]

I was objecting to your original statement that this is a way to know if we are saved or not. This implies a condemnation to anyone reading your post, because you are making activist evangelism the main thing, are you not? People have their own testimony and their own way of obeying what Jesus commanded. There are other ways to bear testimony and love others without speaking. I'm saying that if someone believes in Jesus, they are saved, and have no need to doubt it, even though they aren't speaking the gospel to others as an activist. I never said that you personally condemned anyone, although "to know whether we are saved or not" implies a condemnation to someone who doesn't do as you do.

objecting, sounds like these warnings happening...


Romans 1:
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

1 Timothy 6:
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

[tdidymas]

all your words there, are they closer to fables, or the word of God, what about being slow to speak ( our own words) or what about being judged by every word we speak, how are we judged by speaking Gods word when it saves all, if they are doers and not love in word and toungers.


Matthew 12:
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

1 Timothy 4:
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

James 1:
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

I agree with the scripture. I don't agree with your opinion. Mat. 5:16 is talking about deeds glorifying God.

 

[trophy33]

yes your words are better than examples, isnt that why the forum exists and why everyone likes talking on them.

My words, your words, our words. Thats how communication works.

 

[Peacemaker1]

the Christin forums on the net, are not Christian at all, they are like an other forum, just great swelling words of vanity as foretold...



2 Peter 2:18
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

Jude 1:16
These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

 

[Peacemaker1]

I agree with the scripture. I don't agree with your opinion. Mat. 5:16 is talking about deeds glorifying God.

of course you dont agree with me, you prefer to make disagreements. ( then the salt has lost his savour)


Matthew 5:
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 1:10
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Philippians 2:2
Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

 

[tdidymas]

objecting, sounds like these warnings happening...


Romans 1:
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

1 Timothy 6:
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

I agree with the scripture, but not with your opinion. It sounds to me like you see the worst in what I said, which appears to be a slanderous intention.

 

[Peacemaker1]

do you guys think you can promote strife, and think this is not exposed as it is antichrist, and not a sincere Christian place ?

 

[Peacemaker1]

I agree with the scripture, but not with your opinion. It sounds to me like you see the worst in what I said, which appears to be a slanderous intention.

your loving in word and tongue, has a good intention..


Ezekiel 33:31
And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.

2 Peter 2:
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

1 John 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

 

[Peacemaker1]

yes the message o stop debate, is not a popular one, but who likes to bridle that tongue of hell.


James 1:
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

 

[Oneofhope]

I was objecting to your original statement that this is a way to know if we are saved or not. This implies a condemnation to anyone reading your post, because you are making activist evangelism the main thing, are you not? People have their own testimony and their own way of obeying what Jesus commanded. There are other ways to bear testimony and love others without speaking. I'm saying that if someone believes in Jesus, they are saved, and have no need to doubt it, even though they aren't speaking the gospel to others as an activist. I never said that you personally condemned anyone, although "to know whether we are saved or not" implies a condemnation to someone who doesn't do as you do.

Take care . . .

 

[1Tonne]

We are allowed to speak, but common Christians are not sent to go to the whole world, to be nomadic, to have no families etc. Apostles were, though. That was the Great Commission.

Yip. We are to speak. I have not gone overseas. I see that within my town there are many, many who have not been told the Gospel. Some people have not even heard of Jesus (Normally young adults). This is because we are not talking.

technically, nobody of us need to physically stand on the street and preach like in the era in which there was no other way to get the information.

We don't have to stand on the streets. Your mission may be your workplace or school or simply your friends.
But we do need to speak. Some unbelievers do not know where to start with all the information out there. Information is overwhelming.

Most of Christians are talking about their faith with their close ones and thats enough.

That is not enough. If that is the case, then how loving are we to our neighbour? Not loving at all. We love those close to us, but we are not willing to tell any other people who are made in God's image.

My objection to you is about your demand that everyone do as you do, as if you want followers of yourself.

Wow. You don't seem to be reading this thread properly. I have stated several times that people do not have to be like me. Remember I am a street preacher.

We are not all called to be street preachers.

some may not be regular Gospel preachers. These people may support the person sharing the Gospel. Much like a church has sound men, singers etc.

just remember that you can always support someone who is sharing the Gospel,

God did make us all different. Some he made to be ears, some he made to be hands, some he made to be a mouth and some he made to be feet.

Please read the thread carefully because there have now been a few times I have had to repeat myself. I do not want to have to repeat my posts.
Also, it seems like you are now resorting to insults. Please try to keep it civilized.

You clearly claimed that if anyone is not doing personal evangelism as you describe, they are not children of God

You are reading into things that I have not said. What I have claimed is that if you love others, you will want to warn them and that is a result of true belief. If you truly believe that someone is under God's wrath and you choose not to warn them of it, how loving is that? And if you are not able to do personal evangelism, then you will get into a position to support someone. To allow others to die when God has blessed you with a mouth is wrong.
Even the heavens speak of His greatness. How much more should we who have mouths declare of His goodness to others?

Do you think that if everyone in the churches are doing what you demand, that it will save the nation?

Paul said, "Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ." So, what did Christ do? He warned them of their evil deeds so that they can see their need for a saviour." So, do as Jesus did. It is not I that demand it. I can't make you do anything.
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. So, we should be telling people about it. Then once I have preached the Gospel, it is God who creates the growth. So, we are simply called to scatter seed and then it is God who creates the growth.

I'm saying they don't have to be an activist like you.

this is the judgment that makes you a hypocrite

Your wording is becoming more and more insulting. Personal attacks are not good. And so for this reason, I will not be answering any more of your posts. Have a good new year.

 

[trophy33]

I see that within my town there are many, many who have not been told the Gospel. Some people have not even heard of Jesus (Normally young adults). This is because we are not talking.

Its because they are lazy and without any previous interest in such things.

The historical knowledge of Jesus is a common education (outside of school repeated at least twice every year - on Christmas and the Resurrection day, there is also a church or a chapel in every village, in most countries, plenty of cultural references to Christianity in songs, movies, youtube videos, news, TVs, its in the name of cities, streets, hospitals, there are also crosses built on many places).

Also, the name of Jesus is being used in vain frequently. I guess also by the people who claim they have never heard of him.

If somebody in our common society claims he never heard of Jesus or Bible, its simply ridiculous.

If they were really spiritually interested, they could also google/youtube the gospel, the whole Bible or a local church address in 5 seconds. Or ask an AI on their smartphones, if searching is too much work for them.

I guess the personal conversation about God can be the final touch somebody needs to finally act on that, but I do not accept its needed for the information as such, in our cultural context.

 

[Peacemaker1]

Ecclesiastes 5:
2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
3 For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.

James 1:
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Matthew 12:
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[1Tonne]

Its because they are lazy and without any previous interest in such things.

No. It's not because they are lazy. If they have not heard about Jesus then, we have not spoken. In the last year, I have spoken to 2 young adults like this.
Many other young people have heard of Jesus but do not know what he did for us. This is common. And then you also have those who knew He died on the cross but did not know what that meant. And lastly, I have spoken to many who know He died for our sins on the cross but they minimised their sin and so they did not see their sin as bad. Therefore, they did not see the urgency to put their faith in Him and turn from their sins.

If they were really spiritually interested, they could also google/youtube the gospel, the whole Bible or a local church

Many people are not spiritual and so they need to be shown that there is a creator. But by having a simple discussion with them using logic, we can show them that there must have been a creator. If the builder built the building, and the painter painted the painting, then the creator must have made creation. Everything can't be made with such order and design without an intelligent creator behind it all.
Once people see this, then they are often more open to a spiritual creator.

 

[trophy33]

No. It's not because they are lazy. If they have not heard about Jesus then, we have not spoken. In the last year, I have spoken to 2 young adults like this.
Many other young people have heard of Jesus but do not know what he did for us. This is common. And then you also have those who knew He died on the cross but did not know what that meant. And lastly, I have spoken to many who know He died for our sins on the cross but they minimised their sin and so they did not see their sin as bad. Therefore, they did not see the urgency to put their faith in Him and turn from their sins.

Bringing them the information for the details they do not know is one way, on the other hand if they were interested, they could know the details in few seconds, its in their fingertips.

I understand your point - that secular people have various surprising knowledge gaps about God, Jesus and Bible - and if you go to their homes or talk to them when they walk on the streets, you can explain some more things to them. I just do not think that it is necessary for anybody who is interested in spiritual things. Those can come to places where this is talked about or find it online in seconds.

I think Bible is taught about in every elementary/high school (in history or literature lessons) and there is also some reading from it.

I simply do not see a need for us to physically stand on the street to tell the people these things (when there are even churches or cathedrals on the same street), its a bit of anachronism. But if you like it and see a good fruit of it, certainly do whatever works for you.

 

[lanceleo]

Ephesians 4:11 should not be read by itself. You need to include the next verse with it. If you read them together, you will see that those giftings are for the church, not for the lost. Those giftings were given for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ.
So, those giftings are inward gifts so that we can then be outward

Still it doesn't explain that all who share the gospel are evangelists.

 

[1Tonne]

Those can come to places where this is talked about or find it online in seconds.

They can look up what the Gospel is. But often simply by Googling what the Gospel is, will not show a person their sin. Unless they come across a video clip like this: https://www.youtube.com/@raycomfortjustwitnessing/videos

I think Bible is taught about in every elementary/high school (in history or literature lessons) and there is also some reading from it.

Not in New Zealand. Maybe where you are they teach that stuff. If people in your country stop teaching the lost, the things of God, then in 20 years your country will be as bad as us. If not worse.

Still it doesn't explain that all who share the gospel are evangelists.

It is simple. Someone with the gift of evangelism will teach others and encourage others to share the Good News.
We all should be telling of the Good News. Weather as a street preacher or to work mates or simply just friends. Those who are disciples today, should be sharing of the awesome thing God did for them.
Paul said, "And you should imitate me, just as I imitate Christ." And what did Christ do? He told people of their evil deeds so that people could see their need for a saviour.
Also, Jesus said to preach the Gospel to as many people as possible. (I understand that some of you believe that command was only for the early apostles and no one else. But many people think otherwise)

 

[trophy33]

They can look up what the Gospel is. But often simply by Googling what the Gospel is, will not show a person their sin. Unless they come across a video clip like this: https://www.youtube.com/@raycomfortjustwitnessing/videos

For example, Bible is freely online. I do not think you can say something more convincing than what is in the Bible. What I can agree with is that the personal contact may be more convincing for some, but the information itself is not different. The information is still the same, either told by somebody with an eye contact, heard in the local church or read/listened to on a Christian website.

Not in New Zealand. Maybe where you are they teach that stuff. If people in your country stop teaching the lost, the things of God, then in 20 years your country will be as bad as us. If not worse.

We are one of the most atheistic country in the world. I did not mean some religious reading in schools, I meant its being taught just as a part of common European education (history, literature). If I recall correctly, there were also some lessons about main world religions (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism), but again, taught just factually - dates, names, places, holy books, main doctrinal points of teachings. I am a bit surprised that its not a part of a common education in your country.

Dont you have, for example, public broadcasting of church services during Christmas or Easter? Are not your churches on public places, open to visitors? It still seems absurd to me that somebody in the 21st century never heard about Jesus. Its like somebody never heard about airplanes or about the Roman empire. Such things are simply a common knowledge.