Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

[deu58]

Hi cliff

So what we have with you thoughts here is that we should follow the example of Paul.

We look into the New Testament we see that Paul's custom was to worship on the Sabbath, the 7th day of the week.

All of that has been dealt with on the Sabbath threads,

For one, There is no Scriptural reference of Paul worshiping on the Sabbath, Every Sabbath reference concerning Paul shows he went to the Synagogues to Preach Christ Risen and in most cases was run out of town on the Sabbath

Ac 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Ac 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Ac 18:19 And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

There are no instructions by Paul or any other apostle that Gentile Christians must keep the Sabbath, This was concluded in Acts ch 15
It was decided that Jewish beleivers would follow the Law of Moses if they choose and Gentiles could if they wished also, But neither were required to so,

Ac 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Christian Pharisee's demand that Gentile Christians Keep the law,

Ac 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Peter argues against forcing the Gentiles to Obey the OT law

Ac 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Ac 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

James the brother of Jesus sides with Peter and Paul, Declares Apostles should teach that Gentiles are not obligated to keep the law and says any who wish may go to the Synagogue and learn of Moses

Ac 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Ac 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Ac 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

Ac 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ac 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

Ac 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Ac 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

A letter is written to inform the Gentiles that the Judaizers had no auhority to place the Gentiles under the requirements of the Mosaic law and what the apostles deemed necessary for them to obey


There are no referecences to Christians ever gathering on the Sabbath day to break bread together or to receive religious instruction, In fact there are no references of Christians gathering on the Sabbath for any reason at all,

Ac 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

We see Christians gathering on the first day of the week {Sunday} to break bread {Eucharist} and hear Paul preach {receive religious instruction
1co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

1co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

We see Paul issuing instructions that the tithe is to be done on Sunday,

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Paul instructs Gentiles not to pay any mind to those who Judge them according to the requirements of the Law, This included Sabbath keeping, For all those things were just shadows that pass away but Jesus is the substance and remains forever,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

We see Paul issuing instructions that the tithe is to be done on Sunday,

And my Greek experts tell me that this means that it is to be put aside at home not in the Church. Now if one wants to argue the toss with him then go ahead. He has just got an honours in Biblical Languages (Greek) and is now doing a PhD in the same so I am inclined to at least take some notice of what he tells me.

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

And my Greek experts tell me that this means that it is to be put aside at home not in the Church. Now if one wants to argue the toss with him then go ahead. He has just got an honours in Biblical Languages (Greek) and is now doing a PhD in the same so I am inclined to at least take some notice of what he tells me.

And why should that surprise you???? The early church either met in private
homes or out in the open,

1co 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

There were no Church Buildings or Cathedrals in those days, When Paul speaks of the church he is talking about the individual saints themselves, Not some stone or wood building,

What about the rest of my post?? Is this the only part of it you thought you could refute???

so I am inclined to at least take some notice of what he tells me.

Only some notice from an expert who is working on his Phd?? Kind of curious, What parts does he tell you about that you choose not to notice??
yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

Ac 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

That tells me that Paul kept the Sabbath.

Ac 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Ac 18:19 And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

More texts for Paul keeping the Sabbath.

There are no instructions by Paul or any other apostle that Gentile Christians must keep the Sabbath, This was concluded in Acts ch 15
It was decided that Jewish beleivers would follow the Law of Moses if they choose and Gentiles could if they wished also, But neither were required to so,

He did not need to tell them to worship on the Sabbath, they were already Sabbath keepers, it was not an issue. If there was going to be a change then why didn't Paul say so right now with them. He did not say a thing about the change because there was none.

There are no referecences to Christians ever gathering on the Sabbath day to break bread together or to receive religious instruction, In fact there are no references of Christians gathering on the Sabbath for any reason at all,

They broke bread every day, all it means is thast they had a meal together.

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

That tells me that Paul kept the Sabbath.

More texts for Paul keeping the Sabbath.

Interesting how you translate reasoning as worshipping,

How do you translate these verses?

1co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

1co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Now concerning those who are with out law, Pagan Gentiles, Does it not seem strange he gave them no insructions as to how the Sabbath was still binding upon them???? Or where they all going to the Pagan temples only on the Sabbath "because it was not necessary to tell them because they already knew?

He did not need to tell them to worship on the Sabbath, they were already Sabbath keepers, it was not an issue. If there was going to be a change then why didn't Paul say so right now with them. He did not say a thing about the change because there was none.

Ahhh so we are back to the" it was not necessary to tell any one that the Sabbath was sacred and Gods Holy day and you were forbidden to worship on any other day because all the Gentiles already knew, " defense are we,

He did not say a thing about the change because there was none

He didn't ????


Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.


Ga 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Ga 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Ga 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The change Cliff is not one of transfering authority but the loss of authority,
from the Statements of Paul it obvius that the Sabbath no longer was of substance as it was in the OT, But was now a shadow of the rest that now is,

Which is Jesus Christ,

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[hraedisc]

Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

deu58

The context reveals that he was not speaking about the weekly sabbath, but he was dealing with "religious" fast days.

 

[hraedisc]

Ga 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Ga 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

deu58

Gentiles, who had never kept the sabbath day, could not be "turning AGAIN" to the sabbath, could they? Obviously, Paul is talking about pagan "holy" days. The sabbath is not a weak and beggarly element,as were the pagan holy days.

 

[hraedisc]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

deu58

The weekly sabbath days were not a shadow as were the annual sabbath days of Lev 23.

 

[Mikhail]

And my Greek experts tell me that this means that it is to be put aside at home not in the Church. Now if one wants to argue the toss with him then go ahead. He has just got an honours in Biblical Languages (Greek) and is now doing a PhD in the same so I am inclined to at least take some notice of what he tells me.

The reason Paul said that was that no sabbath keeper would dare profane the sabbath by buying or selling on the sabbath. Soof course you would put count your profit from the preceding week on the sunday as it is the 1st day of the week.
Shalom,
Mikhail

 

[ninabina]

I hope you don't shave the sides of your face or wear clothes made out of mixed materials.

 

[deu58]

Hi <><

The context reveals that he was not speaking about the weekly sabbath, but he was dealing with "religious" fast days.

Yes that is what some SDA's try to claim but there are some problems with that interpretation,

Ro 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Ro 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

The context of these verses is not dealing with eating on certain days but a fear of eating unclean foods every day, They were afraid to eat any meats so they became vegetarians on a daily basis,


Ro 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Paul separates the issue's of days and diet, Showing that he is dealing with two different subjects,

Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Notice Paul says "another esteemeth every day alike" This shows us that at this time there were those who saw no distinction between Saturday, Friday, Monday, or Sunday, for he does plainly say THEY VIEW EVERY DAY ALIKE , Paul gives no rebuke for this and tells those who are upset over this that they should not be, Strange view for someone who is supposed to promoting the Sabbath as a Holy day above all others don't you think???

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[deu58]

Hello <><

Gentiles, who had never kept the sabbath day, could not be "turning AGAIN" to the sabbath, could they? Obviously, Paul is talking about pagan "holy" days. The sabbath is not a weak and beggarly element,as were the pagan holy days.

Ga 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Ga 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Ga 4:12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.

Ga 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

Ga 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Ga 4:15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

Ga 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Ga 4:17 They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.

Ga 4:18 But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you.
Ga 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Ga 4:20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.

Ga 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

I know that more than a few SDA;s and certain Messianic's have trouble dealing with the content and context of Galatians, Considering that if they acknowledge Galatians as it is written their arguments that everybody must be just like them or God will not be pleased with them goes right out the window and the SDA's have to admit their Prophetess was wrong and not really a prophetess, Hmmm yes the stakes are high indeed,

I do not wish to post the entire chapter so I started with 4:10 and ended with 4:21 which plainly states the days and months etc, he is speaking of are those associated with Mosaic Law, From this point he goes on making the comparison of Hagar on mount Sinai which represents bondage and Jerusalem that is above which represents freedom,

Not just these few verses but the ENTIRE BOOK of Galatians deals with Judaizers,

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[deu58]

Hi Mikhail

The reason Paul said that was that no sabbath keeper would dare profane the sabbath by buying or selling on the sabbath. Soof course you would put count your profit from the preceding week on the sunday as it is the 1st day of the week.
Shalom,
Mikhail

If we follow your reasoning then one has to wonder why didn't Paul select Friday rather than Sunday???

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[Shimshon]

Galatians 2:15 But when God, who picked me out before I was born and called me by his grace, chose 16 to reveal his Son to me, so that I might announce him to the Gentiles, I did not consult anyone; 17 and I did not go up to Yerushalayim to see those who were emissaries before me. Instead, I immediately went off to Arabia and afterwards returned to Dammesek. 18 Not until three years later did I go up to Yerushalayim to make Kefa's acquaintance, and I stayed with him for two weeks, 19 but I did not see any of the other emissaries except Ya'akov the Lord's brother.

Seems Sha'ul by his own admission claims to have not returned to Yerushalayim for over three years after his Damasek road experience.

Galatians 3 1Then after fourteen years I again went up to Yerushalayim, this time with Bar-Nabba; and I took with me Titus. 2 I went up in obedience to a revelation, and I explained to them the Good News as I proclaim it among the Gentiles - but privately, to the acknowledged leaders. I did this out of concern that my current or previous work might have been in vain. 3 But they didn't force my Gentile companion Titus to undergo b'rit-milah. 4 Indeed, the question came up only because some men who pretended to be brothers had been sneaked in - they came in surreptitiously to spy out the freedom we have in the Messiah Yeshua, so that they might enslave us. 5 Not even for a minute did we give in to them, so that the truth of the Good News might be preserved for you.

Now he claims to not have returned to Yerushalayim for fourteen years, and returned only because YHVH revealed to him he needed to more firmly establish the Good News. And he is pleased that the Yerushalayim council did NOT force a goy to be circumcised. That this view of following the old covenant along side the new was NOT of YHVH and ment to enslave us back into bondage to the Torah of sin and death.

What is my point to these accounts? One learned in Torah might catch on to them. It's called Shalosh R'galim or Three Pilgrim Festivals. See, the old covenant commanded us to return to Yerushalayim 3 times a year for Pesach, Shavuot, and Sukkot,

Ex 23:14, 17, 34:23-24
Duet 16:16
"Three times a year all your men are to appear in the presence of ADONAI your God in the place which he will choose - at the festival of matzah, at the festival of Shavu'ot and at the festival of Sukkot. They are not to show up before ADONAI empty-handed,

So, if this covenant is being proclaimed as ineffect by Sha'ul, Shabbats and all, why did he not "observe" Torah according to Moshe as given by YHVH? He was commanded to return to Yerushalayim 3 times a year, and NOT EMPTY HANDED. Meaning with sacrifice in hand. Why did a man said to promote Torah Yeshua style NOT preach circumcision, NOT preach about keeping days and seasons, NOT preach about physical Torah observances, but spend his years away from Yerushalayim, and Torah observances? I believe he said it himself, he said, If I am preaching circumcision (Torah), why does my body house all these scars? Why am I being so passionatly persecuted by my Jewish brothers? Because it was for the sake of the Good News that he would suffer. Not the sake of Torah observancy.

 

[BrightCandle]

And I find just as amusing as someone preaching against breaking the 4th while endorsing and supporting the breaking of the 6th. I see that you are a Democrat. Wow-you are supporting all those mass baby killings thru abortion. I think God would be more concerned with murder than with sabbath keeping. Someone has a plank in their eye....

I have not done any abortions, and I don't support abortion on demand, and John Kerry didn't support wholesale abortion on demand, as well. George W. Bush didn't take a hardline stand on outlawing all abortions either. Kerry recommended that abortions be "safe, legal, and rare". I haven't given any money to either the Republicans or the Democrats.

I did have the "guts" to list my political afflication, which I notice you didn't, and very few of the other CF members don't seem to either. Let me put it this way, I voted for "the lesser of two evils" in the last election, I liked some characteristics and positions in both GWB and JK, but because JK had a stronger position on seperation of church and state than GWB did, and didn't seem to be controlled by the "Chrisitan Right", I voted for him. SDAs have always been strong proponents of religious freedom, and consider one of the biggest reasons that God has blest this great nation (USA), is that it didn't have a Pope or a King. Religious faith has never thrived when secular political power has been combined with religious power.

On a different note, SDA hospitals only perform abortions if the mother's life is in danger. Finally, if the next Presidential candidate happens to be a Republican and has a sound position regarding seperation of church and state, possesses wise judgement, and belief in the God of the Bible, I would have no problem voting for him. So don't judge to quickly.

 

[Cliff2]

I suppose there are some who will continue to claim that the 4th commandment is null and void while the other nine are still to be kept.

This is what this thread is about.

Why keep nine if one is going to be broken.

So far, no answer has been given that would make me change my point of view that being the 4th commandment is jsut as important today as it was when God created the 7th day to be holy at creation.

 

[BrightCandle]

I suppose there are some who will continue to claim that the 4th commandment is null and void while the other nine are still to be kept.

This is what this thread is about.

Why keep nine if one is going to be broken.

So far, no answer has been given that would make me change my point of view that being the 4th commandment is jsut as important today as it was when God created the 7th day to be holy at creation.

Thanks for getting us back on topic. It seems that most of CF members do not want to give a logical and biblical answer to my original post that started this thread, but instead just try diversionary tactics.

 

[deu58]

Hi Bright Canadle

SDAs have always been strong proponents of religious freedom, and consider one of the biggest reasons that God has blest this great nation (USA),

If you SDA's are such great believers of religious freedom then why are you constantly harassing those who choose to keep Sunday as being displeasing to God and are practicing apostasy? Why are there reports of bill boards paid for by the SDA's along US high ways attacking Catholics and the Catholic church? I would venture to say the real motivation for your interest in the separation of church and state stems from your belief in the supposed coming ofa Sunday law where the Sabbath is supposed to be outlawed by the government, You are interested only in your own religious freedom. Not ours, Your prejudicial actions and words against other denominations that have never harmed or moved against your church give weight to this,

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), could easily point out this inconsistency to the embarassment of those Christians calling for the Ten Commandments to not be removed on the grounds that their visibility in public places will discourage lawlessness, while the very same Christians are being "lawless" by breaking the 4th Commandment.

The Sabbath means to rest, It was God that gave Israel rest, He commanded them to keep the Sabbath holy in remembrance of freeing them from Egyptian bondage

De 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Moses in the very same chapter confirms that the Sabbath was not kept before this time contrary to what you SDAs' claim that Adam kept the Sabbath and every generation after him up until the Bondage in Egypt began

De 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

De 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

The Covenant of Sinai was with the Jews and for the Jews, Gentile proselytes were permitted to dwell with the Jews but were not bound by the 613 commandments of the Law, These were the first Noachides and they were not bound to the Sabbath Commandment and all the Sabbath ordinances of the Law, These Gentiles were bound by seven universal laws,


The following is copied from the Ahavet Israel website,
The Children of Noah are the Gentiles, comprising the seventy nations of the world. They are commanded concerning the Seven Universal Laws, also known as the Seven Laws of the Children of Noah or the Seven Noachide Laws.
These Seven Universal Laws pertain to:
Avodah Zarah: Prohibition on idolatry.
Birchat HaShem: Prohibition on blasphemy and cursing the Name of G-d.
Shefichat Damim: Prohibition on murder.
Gezel: Prohibition on robbery and theft.
Gilui Arayot: Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations.
Ever Min HaChay: Prohibition on removing and eating a limb from a live animal.
Dinim: Requirement to establish a justice system and courts of law to enforce the other 6 laws.
Men and women are equal in their responsibility to observe the Seven Universal Laws.
When a Gentile resolves to fulfill the Seven Universal Laws, his or her soul is elevated. This person becomes one of the "Chasidei Umot Haolam" (Pious Ones of the Nations) and receives a share of the World to Come. The Torah calls one who accepts the yoke of fulfilling the Seven Universal Laws a "Ger Toshav" (a Proselyte of the Gate).
This person is permitted to live in the land of Israel and to enter to the Holy Temple in Jerusalem and to offer sacrifices to the G-d of Israel.


There are still Noachides today who follow these laws and have fellowship with the Jews, Reading Acts 15 we see that the apostles in the Jerusalem council applied most of these same rules to Christian Gentile converts,

Pagan Gentiles had not yet been freed from their bondage by God, They had no Sabbath, They Had no rest, They were still slaves in the wilderness of sin,

Every aspect of the Mosaic law in one way or the other points to Jesus Christ, Including the Weekly Sabbath, The bible plainly tells us where our rest is today,

Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Mt 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Above we are told to take the yoke of Jesus upon us, In Acts 15 Peter calls the Mosaic law a yoke,

Ac 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Our yoke is the Law of Christ, He is our Holy one and we rest in him daily.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

You claim to keep the 4th commandment but yet you do so by embracing a shadow, We chose to embrace the substance,

The 4th commandment you choose to keep is of the law of Moses, The 4th commandment we choose to keep is of the law of Christ, So in truth it is your 4th commandment that has been made null and void, Not ours

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[Cliff2]

If you SDA's are such great believers of religious freedom then why are you constantly harassing those who choose to keep Sunday as being displeasing to God and are practicing apostasy? Why are there reports of bill boards paid for by the SDA's along US high ways attacking Catholics and the Catholic church? I would venture to say the real motivation for your interest in the separation of church and state stems from your belief in the supposed coming ofa Sunday law where the Sabbath is supposed to be outlawed by the government, You are interested only in your own religious freedom. Not ours, Your prejudicial actions and words against other denominations that have never harmed or moved against your church give weight to this,

Never once have any SDA's here said we do not believe that you can believe what ever one wants to. If you or anyone wants to worship on any day of the week that is your right. We have the same right to worship on the 7th day as the Sabbath according to the Bible. Again, if anyone wants to follown a certain day that is not Biblical then that is the persons right and we all respect that as your individual choice.


This thread is about why keep the commandments if one is broken, what is the point of it then. That is it, what is the point of trying to keep nine if one is going to be broken.

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

Again, if anyone wants to follown a certain day that is not Biblical then that is the persons right and we all respect that as your individual choice.

NIce of you to show your respect by calling us unbiblical, I guess it beats the servants of Satan that you used to call me and flesh 99, Nice to see that you have spiritually matured,

yours in Christ
deu58