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Why Vaccinations Shouldn't be Optional

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by PsychoSarah, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. PsychoSarah

    PsychoSarah Chaotic Neutral

    +1,798
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    It sincerely is not the same thing. Any given time a person conceives a child, there is a chance said child will not be healthy, regardless of family history or medical care. That's a fact of life. To be a responsible parent is to do everything one CAN to ensure their child is as healthy as possible.

    -_- why do you keep wanting to associate my position with class discrimination? Can't provide treatment and won't provide treatment are not one and the same.

    Perhaps I should explain that motivation impacts the morality of choices with identical outcomes. So, let's say Jim Jimson kills another person. I present two situations for this action:
    1. The person Jim killed attacked him without provocation, and he killed him to protect his own life.
    2. Jim felt like killing someone today.

    The way you are debating would suggest that Jim's motivation is irrelevant because the outcome is the same; the death of a person. Thus, regardless of motivation, the morality (or immorality) of the act does not change.

    However, I would consider the motivation to be what tips the ethical scales, so to speak. I would not demand that Jim spare his attacker at the risk of his own life, and thus would not condemn his actions in that situation nearly as much as I would if he killed that person on a whim.

    Same applies to vaccines, in my opinion. A person not vaccinating their child because they can't do it is not being equally irresponsible and immoral as a person not vaccinating their child because they don't want to.


    Finding the source of our disagreement is a great means of connecting with other people, even if neither of us change our minds. I do not intend to go back and forth forever, and I myself can see some of the questionable implications of my own position. I do value bodily autonomy quite highly, and to me, it ends exactly where it starts to impact to bodies of other people. Unfortunately, not vaccinating does impact more than oneself. But so does not being willing to donate part of your liver to save a stranger's life. The defining distinctions between those situations is that the former results in no harm to oneself, and the other does. The complications of vaccines are too minor compared to the benefits to justify not getting them, while taking out a third of your liver is much more dangerous and does harm your health a bit for the sake of another person.

    So, there's where I draw the line, so to speak. You can make health choices that affect only you, and you are not obligated to sacrifice your own health for the sake of others. Since getting vaccinated improve's the health of individuals and society as a whole, it should be a simple obligation.
     
  2. Allandavid

    Allandavid Well-Known Member

    +2,435
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    Please keep your unvaccinated body in America...please don’t plan on any Australian vacations...thanks.
     
  3. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +10,259
    Lutheran
    Single
    US-Others
    What is it that Jesus said to the devil when the devil sought to tempt Him? Oh right, "Do not put the Lord thy God to the test."

    Get yourself and your children vaccinated.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  4. The~Cerberus~Infinite

    The~Cerberus~Infinite Member

    132
    +48
    American Samoa
    Deist
    Private
    So, we can have the scientific debates all day long. But if agents of the state come at me, or god help them, my family, with needles in hands, they'll be met with lead. This is non-negotiable. So, argue about it all you want. Just understand, mandatory vaccines = mandatory civil war. And I don't think they've yet invented a vaccine for lead poisoning. Not sure you'd want it if they did.
     
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  5. War_Eagle

    War_Eagle Member

    206
    +84
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    Married
    Then, by all means, get all the vaccines you want. Just don't tell us what to do with our bodies.
     
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  6. The~Cerberus~Infinite

    The~Cerberus~Infinite Member

    132
    +48
    American Samoa
    Deist
    Private
    In a day and age where people cry about their right to have their existence validated for their gender pronoun, you're literally saying I don't have a right to exist without getting your number of approved shots. Like I'm livestock.

    You, and what army? That's all I want to know.
     
  7. Archie Dupont

    Archie Dupont New Member

    80
    +25
    United States
    Protestant
    In Relationship
    I clicked this link with interest. Until I read the title of the site. Not a scientific article, not a news segment by a prominent newspaper. No, a site that uses the words "hidden truth" in it's slogan. Give me a break.

    A site that is called 'Trace Amounts' by definition is biased, and can therefore not be a valid source of scientific information
     
  8. Archie Dupont

    Archie Dupont New Member

    80
    +25
    United States
    Protestant
    In Relationship
    The problem is when you get babies. I imagine you would want the same for your baby as for yourself. So if your baby is walking around school unvaccinated, your baby will probably still not get the disease due to herd immunity (you can thank us for that later). However, your baby is actively endangering our babies, and for that we don't thank you at all.

    Your body your choice fair enough, but don't drag your own (and our) child down with you, just because you are enthusiastic about conspiracy theories. Are you actually willing to roll the dice with the life of your child with that?
     
  9. Archie Dupont

    Archie Dupont New Member

    80
    +25
    United States
    Protestant
    In Relationship
    If God is with you; why would you stop at the edge of the cliff?
    If God is with you; why would you need to wait for the green light?
    If God is with you; why would you drink or eat at all?
    If God is with you; why would you have surgery if your appendix ruptures?
    If God is with you; why would you take medicine if you are ill?
    If God is with you; why would you need a vaccine?
    Oh no wait that last one makes sense, God will make sure you wont get ill, just as he saves you from the fall, traffic, starvation, other disease and traumatic injury.

    God watches over you, he doesn't assist you. You have a very childish type of faith if you believe God is walking next to you saving you from every little bad thing that can happen to you. God gave us the earth (and you your life) to do with it as we please. He asks us however to do it according through his teachings and moralities. He doens't interfere with our actions and the reckoning of those actions will come when you die. If anything, God will consider your refusal of a vaccine that will prolong your (and your innocent child's) life plain right stupid. Life is the most sacred thing he gave us so you better do anything to preserve it.

    If you keep your belief that God will assist you with every mundane earthly problem, you better never (again) show up at the doctors for having cancer, a broken arm or a severe cold. Don't go to the police if you get robbed, attacked or otherwise mistreated. God will take care of it right?
     
  10. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +5,022
    Anabaptist
    Who do you trust? men? fallible men ? sinful men ? "for profit" men ?
    the whole world,
    not some of the world,
    the whole world is deceived.
    money , money, money ...... ...... .....
     
  11. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

    +2,180
    Messianic
    Single
    I'm not going through all of this thread or try to counter
    the arguments here. Too much work. Suffice it to say that
    I don't agree with many of the premises of vaccines. While
    they do some good, they are like overusing antibiotics. All
    that means is they are putting the problems off, maybe for
    another generation, but more likely much less time.

    One counter: Herd immunity from vaccines is a myth.
     
  12. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

    +2,180
    Messianic
    Single
    If that were true, then why does the government shield vaccine
    makers from lawsuits and pay off people injured by vaccines out
    of our tax money instead?
    National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program | Official web site of the U.S. Health Resources & Services Administration

    How much was paid out and why?

    "According to the CDC’s website, there are “limitations in our knowledge of the risks associated with vaccines” and vaccinations have “the following problems”:

    1. Limited understanding of biological processes that underlie adverse events
    2. Incomplete and inconsistent information from individual reports
    3. Poorly constructed research studies (not enough people enrolled for the period of time)
    4. Inadequate systems to track vaccine side effects
    5. Few experimental studies were published in the medical literature.”

    The above very revealing admissions from the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) completely undercut the pathological overconfidence exhibited in the extreme portions of the community pushing for mandatory vaccination."

    Whopping Vaccine Injury Payouts for US Fiscal Year 2017 Released
     
  13. wernalip

    wernalip New Member

    14
    +9
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Vaccines are indeed helpful but there are groups of anti-vaxxers who are against them so vaccinations should still be optional when it comes to freedom of choice.
     
  14. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +5,022
    Anabaptist
    They may or may not be helpful. There are currently what, over 10,000, maybe 100,000 lawsuits because of DAMAGE by them.
    Just read the list of side effects THEY admit (often over 20, including death, for just one chemical drug),
    then
    FOR FUN, JUST FOR FUN, go read the side effects of eating a good diet.
     
  15. Rubiks

    Rubiks God's little autistic boy! :)

    +1,104
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Protip: Nobody will take you seriously for using caps lock
     
  16. Rubiks

    Rubiks God's little autistic boy! :)

    +1,104
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Except that freedom of choice doesn't apply when it interferes with someone else's life. Refusing to take vaccines put others' lives in jeopardy.
     
  17. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +5,022
    Anabaptist
    Not true, no. People do not become ill due to a deficiency of some toxin manmade.
    For forty years plus, from about 1935 to 1975 basically,
    the medical community knew that the so-called 'safe' vaccines were what causes sids and autism, and when they admitted this and directed their recovery activity that direction, (preventing mercury and other toxicity and chelating the toxins out of the brain) , people recovered.

    This is even more true today, as people everywhere are finding out, sadly usually or often too late and too few.
     
  18. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

    +1,324
    Private
    "Refusing to practice the Buddhist Path results in external manifestations of greed and aversion (such as theft, war, murder, etc.), which puts others' lives in jeopardy."
     
  19. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

    +2,180
    Messianic
    Single
    I wonder if we should have a poll to see how
    many people who want to make vaccinations
    mandatory also support abortion on demand.

    After all, the abortion does not only affect the
    woman. It ends a life, where vaccines cannot
    be proven to do anything for anyone but the
    one who is unlucky enough to receive it.
     
  20. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

    +2,180
    Messianic
    Single
    A perfect argument against 99% of abortions.
     
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