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Why no devil or demons for 2000 yrs?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by he-man, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. InterestedApologist

    InterestedApologist Member

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    Wait, so evil is a man made construction, but was devised by evil men? This sentence disproves itself. You are saying men created the concept of evil because they were already evil. This is contradictory. I think you are creating a false dichotomy here between man performing evil actions and evil having a supernatural source. Cannot man commit evil and demons commit evil also? I see scriptural evidence for both, and no evidence that evil is exclusive to only men or only demons.
     
  2. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Seriously? Matthew 5:11 begs to differ and Matthew 7:17-18 tells you where evil comes from; and Matthew 9:4, the heart. Let us look at reality: Psalms 97:10 from the wicked men not supernatural ghosts; Psalms 52:3 those men who love to lie; Psalms 26:5; those men who are evil doers. What does Job say? Job 28:28 ; and Josha agrees with Job 24:15. Numbers 14:37 evil men that God destroyed is more direct and also Exodus 23:2 the multitudes of men do evil, and it is the statement of man's heart is evil; Genesis 8:21. ALL EVIL comes from men and from their EVIL HEARTS. Do you see anything that says it is supernatural?
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  3. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Considering Jesus tells us that satan was a murderer from the beginning and in Isaiah we are told that he is the deceiver of all the nations, I don't think your assumption is accurate.
     
  4. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Considering that he was addressing the Pharesses and Jews that were the ones who have murdered and were going to murder Jesus, and not a devil. Considering that was the King of Babylonbeing addressed in Isaiah you are completely deceived. Due to recently discovered Babylonian clay tablets, it becomes clear that it is the King of Babylon who is addressed in Isaiah 14:12, due to the Christian mis-understanding of the word Lucifer, which simply means Phorous, or light bearing. Did you read the verses I posted???.
     
  5. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    I saw them. Not a single one stats all evil comes from men. Did you read them?
     
  6. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Quote me a verse that says all evils come from the dead or supernatural and tell me which verse I posted that you don't agree with too.
     
  7. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    The Church. Greater is He that is in you then he thats in the world. Jesus also said.. behold I have you power......and over all the power of the enemy. The "restrainer" is still holing back the lawless one. When He goes.. the want was will be again. For now.. as long as people DON'T believe in demons the devil.. then there must not be a God.

    That being said.. all one has to do is take a trip to places like Africa. Where they BELIEVE in magic and all kind of "bad" things happen. Yet also AWESOME works of GOD. You see tons of healing blind see deaf hear dead rise.

    Devil, demons falling angels.. yeah.. this is not something you seek out play with. You want to see something REAL.. seek Yeshua/Jesus the Christ. See Satan will alway lie.. God can't.

    For me.. to say anything about seeing what not.. wont help anyones faith or seek Christ the more.
     
  8. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    God does not lie. Seek and you will find, ask and you shall receive.
    If you have God why would you fear a fake devil from idolatry. Without a devil you would only serve God. You're not busy thinking of what's wrong, you are thinking about what is right. Why would that change your faith? That is why I answer questions to contend earnestly for the true faith. My prayers. Thank you.
     
  9. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    And these?
    Psalm 58:2
    No, in heart you work wickedness; You weigh out the violence of your hands in the earth.

    Jeremiah 17:9
    “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?
     
  10. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    You aren't very logical in your thinking process. You say men are evil, therefore the source of all evil are men. That's like saying batteries generate electricity, therefore batteries are the only source for electricity.

    You claim all evil comes from men, and then provide what you call proof by citing passages where none of them claim all evil come from men. When challenged, your response is for me to prove all evil comes from elsewhere?

    What a load of garbage. I've never made such a claim. If you want everyone to know all evil comes from men, prove it. So far, you've provided nothing saying so.
     
  11. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    What about them?
     
  12. InterestedApologist

    InterestedApologist Member

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    The Devil’s existence is well documented in scripture, as is the existence of demons. Furthermore, he is referred to as our adversary who is actively seeking to devour us in 1 Peter 5:8. Does not sound like a myth to me. Your belief that man created evil because they were evil is illogical as I mentioned earlier.

    Satan is a liar, deceiver and murderer who rebelled against God and seeks to destroy everyone in his path. It is often said that his greatest accomplishment is convincing the world he doesn’t exist...
     
  13. he-man

    he-man he-man

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  14. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    So do you have any scriptures that show otherwise?
     
  15. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Do I have scriptures that show you are illogical in your thinking? No.

    To show other sources of evil? Yes, and I gave you a few that you just ignored and threw away. Do you want more to ignore and throw away? Personally, I don't feel that would be worth my effort.
     
  16. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Mark 7:21, evil procedes out of the heart ofmen; Matthew 15:19, evil heart; Psalms 58:2; Jeremiah 17:9; Luke 6:45; Luke 24:25; Acts of the Apostles 5:3 Ananias says evil heart; Acts of the Apostles 5:9-10 Just as the murders of old , so the present evil doers resist the Fathers; Acts of the Apostles 28:27 convert your heart if you wish to be a believer!
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  17. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Mark 7:21; Matthew 15:19; Psalms 58:2, Jeremiah 17:9; Luke 6:45; Luke 24:25.
     
  18. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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  19. InterestedApologist

    InterestedApologist Member

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    I feel like I need to address this again as it is definitely the most controversial statement of your view on this issue. I tried to approach this from a purely logical perspective initially, but let’s try it with a little help from scripture.

    You claim evil does not truely exist, except that it is just a construct created by evil men who commit evil. Ignoring the previously mentioned logical issues with this, let’s examine the origin of evil itself.

    In Genesis, we find Adam having been placed in the garden and commissioned to tend it:

    Genesis 2:15
    And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

    Eve has not been created yet, and man has not yet fallen when God issues his first command not to do something, which is:

    Genesis 2:16-17
    And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Here, I think, is where your argument falls apart scripturally. God directs Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Interestingly, the verse implies that God himself has named the tree, not Adam. This provides solid evidence that evil existed prior to man’s fall and that it is not something created by man.

    Later we read of the Devil’s role in the account of the fall:

    Genesis 3:1-3

    Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

    We see clearly a special entity craftier than any animal made. Also, the serpent tempts or coerces Eve to eat of the fruit, and she protests at first and eventually gives in and shares the fruit with her husband Adam.

    Lets travel back though, to the serpents argument:

    Genesis 3:4-5
    And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    The serpent does not force the fruit on Eve or Adam, they are responsible before God for having eaten. Nevertheless, the serpent twists God’s command and tells them they will not die when they eat it. Then, he explains that once they eat it, they will be like God in that they will now know the difference between good and evil. These are lies and deceptions that make evil appear to be good! That is what Satan does and is his role in evil.

    Lastly, Satan’s half truth is correct. Suddenly Adam and Eve are aware of evil and good:

    Genesis 3:7
    And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

    From these verses, we understand that Satan is a tempter and deceiver and interacts with man to man’s detriment, and that evil predated man’s fall. It is a simple matter of accepting what the scriptures say and not trying to read something else into them.
     
  20. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    You do greatly err, not knowing the scriptures and assuming that the orthodox position is correct. How do you understand Satan to be the tempter, when there is no mention of the word? But it does say the snake was sentenced to crawl on its belly all the days of its life..., and to dust you shall return, so your argument is null and void. You are putting more in that scripture than what is written. Consider how the Angel of God spoke to Balaam and even though the angel was translated as Satan, it is clear that the angel was merely an adversary to Balaam, Numbers 22, just as the snake was an adversary to Eve, and it also spoke like the angel did to Balaam. The question to be answered is, whence cometh evil. Matthew 5:11 says it comes from men; as well as Matthew 6:23; Matthew 7:17-18; Matthew 9:4, clearly tells you that evil comes from the heart of men. Exodus 23:2 tells you from where, as does Numbers 14:37 ;Joshua 24:15; Job 28:28; Psalms 26:5; Psalms 52:3; Psalms 97:10.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
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