Why no devil or demons for 2000 yrs?

[jhwatts]

You do greatly err, not knowing the scriptures and assuming that the orthodox position is correct. How do you understand Satan to be the tempter, when there is no mention of the word? But it does say the snake was sentenced to crawl on its belly all the days of its life..., and to dust you shall return, so your argument is null and void. You are putting more in that scripture than what is written. Consider how the Angel of God spoke to Balaam and even though the angel was translated as Satan, it is clear that the angel was merely an adversary to Balaam, Numbers 22, just as the snake was an adversary to Eve, and it also spoke like the angel did to Balaam. The question to be answered is, whence cometh evil. Matthew 5:11 says it comes from men; as well as Matthew 6:23; Matthew 7:17-18; Matthew 9:4, clearly tells you that evil comes from the heart of men. Exodus 23:2 tells you from where, as does Numbers 14:37 ;Joshua 24:15; Job 28:28; Psalms 26:5; Psalms 52:3; Psalms 97:10.

Satan was sinner from the beginning.

1 John 3:8

 

[he-man]

Satan was sinner from the beginning. 1 John 3:8

Then he is dead! The wages of sin is death. Due to the recent discovery of Babylonia clay tablets, it is clear that was spoken of the King of Babylon, but due to false Christian beliefs the dogma has continued even up to this day. 1 John 3:8 is talking about the fathers who were planning to murder Christ not a literal super devil who never dies but according to superstition has lived 6000 years and is still crawling on his belly and shall return to dust who knows when. I guess Genesis lied?

 

[jhwatts]

Not necessarily, the wages of sin is death and it will come to him in time. You simply assume it has already taken place.

Satan's fall simply transformed him to a creature of terror. See Ezekiel 28:18 and 19.

 

[he-man]

Not necessarily, the wages of sin is death and it will come to him in time. You simply assume it has already taken place.

Not necessarily, the wages of sin is death and it will come to him in time. You simply assume it has already taken place.

Satan's fall simply transformed him to a creature of terror. See Ezekiel 28:18 and 19.

Satan's fall simply transformed him to a creature of terror. See Ezekiel 28:18 and 19.

See Ezekiel 28:2 spoken to the Prince of Tyrus not Satan.
Ezekiel 28:17 for selling idols and other things the whole city will be burned with fire and that paid the penalty of death by Alexander, when he invaded.

 

[jhwatts]

See Ezekiel 28:2 spoken to the Prince of Tyrus not Satan.
Ezekiel 28:17 for selling idols and other things the whole city will be burned with fire and that paid the penalty of death by Alexander, when he invaded.

In Eden? On many occasions angels often show up in the form of men in scripture and the King of Tyrus here is being described clearly as Satan early in the Garden of God. He is Satan in human form.

What is your point with Ezekiel 28:17?

 

[InterestedApologist]

You do greatly err, not knowing the scriptures and assuming that the orthodox position is correct. How do you understand Satan to be the tempter, when there is no mention of the word? But it does say the snake was sentenced to crawl on its belly all the days of its life..., and to dust you shall return, so your argument is null and void. You are putting more in that scripture than what is written. Consider how the Angel of God spoke to Balaam and even though the angel was translated as Satan, it is clear that the angel was merely an adversary to Balaam, Numbers 22, just as the snake was an adversary to Eve, and it also spoke like the angel did to Balaam. The question to be answered is, whence cometh evil. Matthew 5:11 says it comes from men; as well as Matthew 6:23; Matthew 7:17-18; Matthew 9:4, clearly tells you that evil comes from the heart of men. Exodus 23:2 tells you from where, as does Numbers 14:37 ;Joshua 24:15; Job 28:28; Psalms 26:5; Psalms 52:3; Psalms 97:10.

You never addressed my point on the origin of evil.

 

[he-man]

You never addressed my point on the origin of evil.

The origin is that the snake was to crawl on its belly all the days of its life and then to return to dust. Does that sound like an all powerful evil thrust upon people? Matthew 5:11 tells you where evil comes from; it comes from men. How? Matthew 9:4 from their evil hearts. Job also says: Job 28:28 .; But the choice is yours; you can serve the devil idols of Baal, or you can serve God.

 

[he-man]

In Eden? On many occasions angels often show up in the form of men in scripture and the King of Tyrus here is being described clearly as Satan early in the Garden of God. He is Satan in human form. What is your point with Ezekiel 28:17?

The point is that was addressed to the King of Tyre not to a superman devil. Ezekiel 28:2-7 says to the prince of Tyrus: "Thou art man.." Ezekiel 28:17 tells you that Alexander carried out the death sentence of Tyre and its King.

 

[InterestedApologist]

The origin is that the snake was to crawl on its belly all the days of its life and then to return to dust. Does that sound like an all powerful evil thrust upon people? Matthew 5:11 tells you where evil comes from; it comes from men. How? Matthew 9:4 from their evil hearts. Job also says: Job 28:28 .; But the choice is yours; you can serve the devil idols of Baal, or you can serve God.

Wow, by acknowledging the Biblical text references demons I am engaged in Baal idolatry and worship? That is a huge leap and the kind of thing I would expect to hear from someone caught up in a cult. I hope you are not, and I hope you did not intend to say that how it came out.

Furthermore, you keep saying evil is a creation of man alone, despite scriptural and logical evidence clearly indicating that evil pre-dates the fall of man as made perfectly clear in the passages I posted from Genesis. Mankind clearly does a lot of evil on its own, but it certainly seems from the text that evil existed before man fell. I realize that creates a problem for you as it requires Lucifer to have fallen first and you don’t believe he exists.

It is clear that there will never be any way to persuade you on this issue, so I won’t debate this any further. I would simply caution you that your view is clearly amongst a tiny minority of believers, and as such, I would be very hesitant to make it a litmus test for salvation. In fact, it might be worth examining further to make sure you are not misinterpreting yourself.

 

[he-man]

I would simply caution you that your view is clearly amongst a tiny minority of believers, and as such, I would be very hesitant to make it a litmus test for salvation. In fact, it might be worth examining further to make sure you are not misinterpreting yourself.

Matthew 20:16, Many are called but few are chosen. Due to recently discovered Babylonia clay tablets, it is clear that Isaiah 14:4-16 was spoken to a MAN, the King of Babylon, but due to false Christian dogma, it has persisted up until even this day. The word Lucifer simply means Phorphus, or light-shining and has nothing to do with a false satan worship of Baal.

 

[InterestedApologist]

Matthew 20:16, Many are called but few are chosen. Due to recently discovered Babylonia clay tablets, it is clear that Isaiah 14:4-16 was spoken to a MAN, the King of Babylon, but due to false Christian dogma, it has persisted up until even this day. The word Lucifer simply means Phorphus, or light-shining and has nothing to do with a false satan worship of Baal.

I’ll take the scripture over some recently found clay tablets. You still haven’t addressed evils existence prior to man’s fall, and haven’t addressed Peter’s reference to Satan. You are reading inferences into scripture to match your belief.

 

[he-man]

I’ll take the scripture over some recently found clay tablets. You still haven’t addressed evils existence prior to man’s fall, and haven’t addressed Peter’s reference to Satan. You are reading inferences into scripture to match your belief.

There was no evil prior to man not obeying God. Everything was good as God, Himsef, said. Peter? You mean when Christ called Peter Satan and said to Peter: "Get back behind me adversary (Satan) .."?

 

[InterestedApologist]

There was no evil prior to man not obeying God. Everything was good as God, Himsef, said. Peter? You mean when Christ called Peter Satan and said to Peter: "Get back behind me adversary (Satan) .."?

So God Himself named the tree as the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the serpent tempted Eve into disobedience to God’s command (an act of evil prior to the actual fall), and yet you still cling to a belief that violates both logic and scripture due to a couple of clay tablets.

I see no reason to continue the discussion. We simply will have to disagree.

 

[Segaz]

Come on, can't we recognise genuine bait when we see it? This guy switches between different styles of posting, tries to claim there is no such thing as the devil or demons and praises other posts saying that evil is just a human concept.

 

[he-man]

Come on, can't we recognise genuine bait when we see it? This guy switches between different styles of posting, tries to claim there is no such thing as the devil or demons and praises other posts saying that evil is just a human concept.

???

 

[DennisTate]

Isn't it strange that no devils or demons have appeared for 2000 years? Have you seen any? If so, prove it; photos, documentation, etc.

Have you read the near death experience account of former Atheist Howard Storm?

If so.... then who were the nasty group of people he met in the first part of his NDE if they were not devils or demons?

Would you say that they were ghosts?

Reverend Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

 

[Uber Genius]

Isn't it strange that no devils or demons have appeared for 2000 years? Have you seen any? If so, prove it; photos, documentation, etc.

False premise.

Have cast out hundreds over the last 30 years. This is an austriche perspective. A quick glance at the evidence for healing would find a plethora of evidence for demonic activity. Especially in places where the Kingdom of God is first being introduced.

Here, none other than Gary Habermas, Evangelical scholar and apologist extraordinaire, introduces Craig to talk about the supernatural.

 

[parousia70]

Have cast out hundreds over the last 30 years.

Then they must powerless, no?

Is there a difference between a Demon that is powerless and a non existent Demon?

 

[Phantasman]

Then he is dead! The wages of sin is death. Due to the recent discovery of Babylonia clay tablets, it is clear that was spoken of the King of Babylon, but due to false Christian beliefs the dogma has continued even up to this day. 1 John 3:8 is talking about the fathers who were planning to murder Christ not a literal super devil who never dies but according to superstition has lived 6000 years and is still crawling on his belly and shall return to dust who knows when. I guess Genesis lied?

Genesis wasn't accurate. If God the Father made man, he would have been perfect. He wasn't because he was made by the imperfect. The Tree of Life was just that. It gave man the spirit (from the perfect Father). Adam and Eve were ashamed of their imperfect flesh when they understood what it was. Jesus teaches as he did in the Tree. John 6:63 1 Corinthians 15:45

 

[parousia70]

Genesis wasn't accirate

Or, it was, and certain people’s interpretation of it, is what’s inaccurate.

If God the Father made man, he would have been perfect. He wasn't because he was made by the imperfect.

So your position, is that it is impossible for a perfect being to create something, intentionally or unintentionally, imperfect.

Do I understand that correctly?

The Tree of Life was just that. It gave man the spirit (from the perfect Father).

How did give that to man? Did they eat from the tree of life in the garden? I don’t see any Scripture that indicates they did…