Why is God hidden, invisible, unprovable?

[Bible Highlighter]

The thread is not about whether God exists but rather why has he chosen to be undetectable unprovable, as I've reiterated a few times in order to keep it from wandering so. As with many informal web forum thread topics, there are always some that will inject what they prefer or are able to discuss even if off topic. A common problem in web forums are those that jump into a thread after it is a few pages long and only read the last page or two without bothering to at least review the OP post on what a thread is about.

As another said here.... one major reason why GOD has chosen to be invisible to us is.... faith.
Another reason is that GOD designed things in such a way that we would not physically survive if we were to physically look upon the face of GOD, as well. That is how powerful GOD is. He made us to be frail or our bodies were corrupted by the sin from the Fall of Adam and Eve in such a way that our bodies would dissolve under His amazing holiness and glory of looking upon His face.

 

[Davidz777]

When the Father is close by, he can be seen and many scriptures attest to this fact. If he is far away in heaven...he is "invisible" meaning not able to be visually seen and the same can be said about anything or anyone in heaven. We cannot look up and see heaven, God's throne or the Father. Invisible here simply does not carry the same meaning as it does in modern English like an invisibility cloak or the invisible man who can sneak around without being seen.

Example. My car is invisible to everyone here...only because no one knows where it is and thus cannot see it but the car isn't literally invisible when standing near it.

The thread is NOT about whether God is invisible but rather unprovable, undetectable, of which invisibility is part of though off topic as to WHY.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Another person that seems to have only read the first lines of my OP. I essentially related what you do...but you need to read my other posts.

Also, no offense, friend; However, the title is also misleading to others in that you ask the question: "Why is GOD unprovable?" This implies that GOD cannot be proven to be true. This sounds like words that doubt the faith. For the unbeliever says that GOD cannot be proven and thus this is the reason why they do not believe in Him. However, GOD can be proven. His Word (the Bible) is backed by many evidences, and the effect GOD has upon people's lives in such dramatic ways is amazing.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The thread is NOT about whether God is invisible but rather unprovable, undetectable, of which invisibility is part of though off topic as to WHY.

Undetectable is saying the same thing as invisible. GOD is Omnipresent. Jesus said where two or more are gathered in His name, He is among them. But we cannot see Jesus (Who is GOD) among two believers who are gathered in His name. So Jesus is among them in spirit. This means Jesus is invisible to us or undetectable. Same thing. But to say that Jesus is unprovable is an atheistic type statement because Jesus can be proved by the fact that He has changed us by giving us a love, joy, and peace that we have never known before. He has awakened us to His Word the Bible in such a way that the words jump off the page with abounding of meaning, where before, it was a dead book full of mysteries. Jesus can be proven to be true to the seeker of truth by their looking at the evidences that back up the Bible. However, to the atheist, agnostic, or unbeliever, these things are like dung to them and they will say that they are unprovable and that our God is unprovable. I say baloney to that. GOD is provable. GOD is provable in how He has touched my life, and the lives others and by the tons of evidences that support His Word.

 

[Davidz777]

Also, no offense, friend; However, the title is also misleading to other in that you ask the question: Why is GOD unprovable? But GOD can be proven. His Word (the Bible) is backed by many evidences, and the effect GOD has upon people's lives in such dramatic ways is amazing.

Of course titles at best are a few terse terms to fit a web page.

Why is God hidden, invisible, unprovable?

People do their best to illuminate in a title what the discussion entails. To rely on that in order to interpret a discussion lacks wisdom and is likely to embarrass those who solely rely on such. In following I next stated:

"That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god."

In other words the first thing most atheists state when rejecting the existence of God is that there isn't enough physical evidence for the secular science oriented world to believe. That is not MY perspective but as I write "atheistic resistance", yet how many in the thread have apparently interpreted that to mean my own beliefs? In following posts I do make my position clear...if people bother to read more than the first few sentences.

 

[Davidz777]

Undetectable is saying the same thing as invisible. GOD is Omnipresent. Jesus said where two or more are gathered in His name, He is among them. But we cannot see Jesus (Who is GOD) among two believers who are gathered in His name. So Jesus is among them in spirit. This means Jesus is invisible to us or undetectable. Same thing. But to say that Jesus is unprovable is an atheistic type statement because Jesus can be proved by the fact that He has changed us by...

Undetectable and invisible are similar though not quite the same terms but discussing those terms has nothing to do with the thread topic. And if I had a whole paragraph to fit the title in, yes I would have added "unprovable to the secular science atheist world". In fact I did so effectively in following sentences of my opening post.

 

[packermann]

Another person that seems to have only read the first lines of my OP. I essentially related what you do...but you need to read my other posts.

Sorry about that. I did read the rest, but this part really threw me:

My science oriented perspective does not subscribe to Bible inerrancy and infallibility, multi-universes, god is on another plain of existence, time travel, precognition, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, miracles like magic.

I took that to mean that you did not believe in a God who is on another plane of existence, who has foreknowledge, and is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent. I am relieved to read that you do believe in a Christian God. Now that I understand, I hope to give a much more thoughtful response in the next day or so.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Of course titles at best are a few terse terms to fit a web page.

Why is God hidden, invisible, unprovable?

People do their best to illuminate in a title what the discussion entails. To rely on that in order to interpret a discussion lacks wisdom and is likely to embarrass those who solely rely on such. In following I next stated:

"That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god."

In other words the first thing most atheists state when rejecting the existence of God is that there isn't enough physical evidence for the secular science oriented world to believe. That is not MY perspective but as I write "atheistic resistance", yet how many in the thread have apparently interpreted that mean my own beliefs? In following posts I do make my position clear...if people bother to read more than the first few sentences.

Clarity of information in the way you write could have prevented the misunderstanding by many. It would be more clear if you reworded the title and say something like:

"The atheist says, '...[____insert atheistic quote here_____]'"​

Christians will admit that GOD is undetectable (in certain cases), and invisible. But to say that GOD is unprovable is an exclusive atheistic statement. You attempted to meld these two concepts together when they do not fit together in a title, my friend. Hence, why folks are confused as to what you were trying to say.

 

[Davidz777]

I will tend to put that warning on threads I create in order for other members here more clearly understand my perspective as it is unique. Obviously I need to improve that a bit to indicate I am a strong Christian believer.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Undetectable and invisible are similar though not quite the same terms but discussing those terms has nothing to do with the thread topic. And if I had a whole paragraph to fit the title in, yes I would have added "unprovable to the secular science atheist world". In fact I did so effectively in following sentences of my opening post.

Undetectable is similar to invisible in the fact that our eyes cannot detect GOD being visible. He is invisible to our eyes. He is undetectable by our eyes. Same thing. But yes, a believer CAN detect GOD in other ways like with how GOD can give a person a love, joy, and a peace, etc., and an awakening to what His Word says (unlike before). But this needs to be clarified to the reader, though (Otherwise they are going to remain clueless as to what you mean). in either case, it is okay. It takes time to learn to write on forums with clarity. I am still learning to write with clarity myself even in my own creative projects I am doing for the Lord. Just today, GOD was helping me to write with more clarity in what I wanted to say.

Anyways, blessings to you in the Lord;
And may you please be well.

 

[DamianWarS]

I skimmed through another closed thread that was supposed to address why God chooses to be invisible but it was mostly off topic with predictable subjects. I'm starting this new thread on the subject as I'll be addressing it differently. My science oriented perspective does not subscribe to Bible inerrancy and infallibility, multi-universes, god is on another plain of existence, time travel, precognition, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, miracles like magic. Note, will resist posts going off topic.
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That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god. We cannot obviously sense God. The Bible itself states God is invisible and that no one (on Earth) has seen his true essence except the Son. God does not with certainty sensually communicate with us although many believers will claim they can tell in some vague way that God is there guiding their thoughts. But if he exists, God could and may at least on extraordinary occasions do so under conditions that he has carefully evaluated as to be un-provable. Such might be described as un-manifested. It may also be that God as spirit is not visible by our organic visual system. The following Bible verses are examples showing God’s attitude in being secretive, hidden, invisible, un-manifested and how that was even understood at Jesus’s time. As to why, I'll speculate about that later:

Matthew 11:25-27 (NIV)
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.“
Colossians 1:15 (NASB)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Mathew 12:38>39 (NASB)
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Jhn 5:37 (NASB)
“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form

the moment God has is defined through physical forms he ceases to be God because he would have limits.

I skimmed through another closed thread that was supposed to address why God chooses to be invisible but it was mostly off topic with predictable subjects. I'm starting this new thread on the subject as I'll be addressing it differently. My science oriented perspective does not subscribe to Bible inerrancy and infallibility, multi-universes, god is on another plain of existence, time travel, precognition, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, miracles like magic. Note, will resist posts going off topic.
-----------------------

That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god. We cannot obviously sense God. The Bible itself states God is invisible and that no one (on Earth) has seen his true essence except the Son. God does not with certainty sensually communicate with us although many believers will claim they can tell in some vague way that God is there guiding their thoughts. But if he exists, God could and may at least on extraordinary occasions do so under conditions that he has carefully evaluated as to be un-provable. Such might be described as un-manifested. It may also be that God as spirit is not visible by our organic visual system. The following Bible verses are examples showing God’s attitude in being secretive, hidden, invisible, un-manifested and how that was even understood at Jesus’s time. As to why, I'll speculate about that later:

Matthew 11:25-27 (NIV)
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.“
Colossians 1:15 (NASB)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Mathew 12:38>39 (NASB)
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Jhn 5:37 (NASB)
“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form

If God has form he has limits and would cease to be God. So the act of proving him based on your criteria would be ineffectual and actually disprove him. The incarnation was never about proving God it was about God reaching us in ways we can grasp.

 

[miggles]

I skimmed through another closed thread that was supposed to address why God chooses to be invisible but it was mostly off topic with predictable subjects. I'm starting this new thread on the subject as I'll be addressing it differently. My science oriented perspective does not subscribe to Bible inerrancy and infallibility, multi-universes, god is on another plain of existence, time travel, precognition, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, miracles like magic. Note, will resist posts going off topic.
-----------------------

That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god. We cannot obviously sense God. The Bible itself states God is invisible and that no one (on Earth) has seen his true essence except the Son. God does not with certainty sensually communicate with us although many believers will claim they can tell in some vague way that God is there guiding their thoughts. But if he exists, God could and may at least on extraordinary occasions do so under conditions that he has carefully evaluated as to be un-provable. Such might be described as un-manifested. It may also be that God as spirit is not visible by our organic visual system. The following Bible verses are examples showing God’s attitude in being secretive, hidden, invisible, un-manifested and how that was even understood at Jesus’s time. As to why, I'll speculate about that later:

Matthew 11:25-27 (NIV)
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.“
Colossians 1:15 (NASB)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Mathew 12:38>39 (NASB)
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Jhn 5:37 (NASB)
“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form

it's all about faith and free will.

 

[timewerx]

That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god

There's at least one who did.

None other than Albert Einstein. Despite being known as Agnostic, He was able to gather proof for himself that God exists through analytical studies of various observable, physical events in the world.

Einstein didn't even use the Bible as reference. It was a purely scientific exercise.

The scary thing is that Einstein did find something... Einstein did not choose to share this information. The secret died with him.

Einstein probably thought the world isn't ready for such revelation yet OR the revelation might destroy his reputation as a celebrity scientist.

Most people probably wouldn't want to hear this anyway. They love their houses, cars, kids, pets, hobbies far more than God. This statement is true even among Christians. Anything that will challenge the sanity of their own little paradise, they would reject and dismiss as sheer madness.

They would rather accept God as being hidden, completely unknowable (because they really don't want to know him....)..Hidden from their worldly paradise and not bother to look Him up.

 

[Anguspure]

Although the Bible itself states the physical nature of God may be invisible, the more important issue that addresses this thread is that his works if such exist are not visible in a way the secular world might believe although God could easily do so as I speculated. Thus the more important question is WHY has God chosen to do so especially since as I've noted that is what most agnostics and atheist blurt out first as the prime reason for their disbelief?

The secular world takes the most obvious evidence of the existence of God and turns it on it head as something that convinces them that He does not exist. This is not a matter of evidence, this is a matter of heart attitude towards reality.

 

[Anguspure]

And that point has been brought up before and is highly debatable as scripture points out God visiting with people at different points within the bible. Especially in the case of Jesus:

John 14:9

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

There is a big difference between YHWH in person, and Yeshua revealed in 3 dimensions. The reason YHWH cannot be seen is the same reason why a 2 dimensional person cannot comprehend or see what a 3 dimensional person looks like.
The book "Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions" explores this issue.

Flatland - Wikipedia
The History of Hyperspace: Physics and the Bible: – Lambert Dolphin – Koinonia House

 

[Anguspure]

the moment God has is defined through physical forms he ceases to be God because he would have limits.

If God has form he has limits and would cease to be God. So the act of proving him based on your criteria would be ineffectual and actually disprove him. The incarnation was never about proving God it was about God reaching us in ways we can grasp.

When you appear in the mirror, do you cease to be you? Sounds a bit like the sort of superstition that native peoples had about cameras stealing their souls to me.

 

[SkyWriting]

... god is on another plain of existence...

Yes. You can't argue that what we know about God is our fault.

John 4:24
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Genesis 1:2
The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

 

[SkyWriting]

God does not with certainty sensually communicate with us although many believers will claim they can tell in some vague way that God is there guiding their thoughts.

For good reason:

John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Romans 8:14
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.



All your complaints can be answered
by you knowing your topic further.

 

[SkyWriting]

That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god.

History is never provable. It can only be retold by honest storytellers.
And storytellers are considered honest until proven guilty.

Does Historical Evidence Prove that Jesus Lived? - Josh.org

 

[dqhall]

Mankind has rejected God's Word for thousands of years. Even some of His Own People did, who were cut out so we (gentiles) could be grafted in.
But there are no errors in God's Word.
Man will use all kind of 'science'/ so-called knowledge and wisdom of men/ to try to show errors.
That is sinful, and wrong.

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

John 1:12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who ...
[Search domain biblehub.com/john/1-12.htm] John 1:12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God--
But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: Douay-Rheims Bible But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.

Weymouth New Testament
"Strain every nerve to force your way in through the narrow gate," He answered; "for multitudes, I tell you, will endeavour to find a way in and will not succeed.

World English Bible
"Strive to enter in by the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in, and will not be able.

Young's Literal Translation
'Be striving to go in through the straight gate, because many, I say to you, will seek to go in, and shall not be able;

If there were no errors in the Torah, the apostles would not have freed Gentiles from the burden of the law. In Acts 15 I found freedom. I may not be bound by the inadequacy of the law.