Why is God hidden, invisible, unprovable?

[aiki]

Hey quick question. If I’m telling you that I personally know atheist who’s hearts are not deceitful do you still not think you are wrong in saying atheists have deceitful hearts?

I'm obliged, given God's omniscience and authority and His capacity to know the hearts of people as you and I never can, to take His word above and before the word of any other. And His word about atheists - and all the lost - is as I explained to you in my last post.

 

[bling]

I guess I’m just not as hard on skeptics as most. And I do understand do to your experience you may think that the skeptic doesn’t want the Christian God to exist. I’m sure others have had the same experience where they go back and forth so much and come to the conclusion they don’t wanna change. But I actually do understand the skeptic. I understand why it could be difficult for someone who just isn’t willing to put the level of trust in what you or I may believe. However I do believe that they may be willing if we were talking to them about what we know rather then what we believe. But the truth is that our beliefs are personal and aren’t based off certainty so I’m not understanding why we can see why that could be problematic for some. Either way I’m here for discussions. Thanks

I did not mean to come across judgmentally about all sceptics since everyone is different. A lot of the time they are just nonbelievers and for good reason (people calling themselves Christians passed along false information which they disagree with). I am be very skeptical of what others have said they need to believe.

I was addressing more the hardline sceptic agnostic and atheist who are apposed to Christianity.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god.

Well, that's not entirely true. There are only 2 choices: accident or design. You'd need to be so biased and unreasonable as to be insane to conclude that the prima facie order ubiquitous in creation is all a concatenated product of blind chance. It is almost infinitely improbable that life spontaneously occurred in the soup, found a mate, had a family and settled down in the 'burbs.

So what we have is a case of denial, blindness, ignorance and foolishness masquerading as science. A bad case of Romans 1, you might say. So God has given us 'the natural revelation' and asked us to use our God-given brains to deduce the only rational explanation that (1) there is a creator and (2) He is good.

Only man has been seduced by sin and the devil to cling to the vacuous claim that it all happened by accident. Lord have mercy.

 

[eleos1954]

I skimmed through another closed thread that was supposed to address why God chooses to be invisible but it was mostly off topic with predictable subjects. I'm starting this new thread on the subject as I'll be addressing it differently.

My science oriented perspective does not subscribe to Bible inerrancy and infallibility, multi-universes, god is on another plain of existence, time travel, precognition, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, miracles like magic. Note, will resist posts going off topic.
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That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god. We cannot obviously sense God. The Bible itself states God is invisible and that no one (on Earth) has seen his true essence except the Son. God does not with certainty sensually communicate with us although many believers will claim they can tell in some vague way that God is there guiding their thoughts. But if he exists, God could and may at least on extraordinary occasions do so under conditions that he has carefully evaluated as to be un-provable. Such might be described as un-manifested. It may also be that God as spirit is not visible by our organic visual system. The following Bible verses are examples showing God’s attitude in being secretive, hidden, invisible, un-manifested and how that was even understood at Jesus’s time. As to why, I'll speculate about that later:

Matthew 11:25-27 (NIV)
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.“
Colossians 1:15 (NASB)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Mathew 12:38>39 (NASB)

Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Jhn 5:37 (NASB)
“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form

Exodus 33:20

20 But He (God) said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Exodus 33:20

20 But He (God) said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.

Is there a better translation of that verse/ idea/ here or somewhere ?

(Yahuweh does not have "a face"/ parts/ pieces/ like humans do)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why might God choose to be unrevealed, un-manifested, invisible, hidden? If God and his actions were revealed out in the open public, all people, I reiterate ALL sane people, would believe he existed just like today there is no doubt the world is a round planet. Consider how God could have if he had thought that letting humans know he was certain, could have done so. He might have plunked down say at Jeruselum, some immense incredible gleaming structure like an obelisk made of materials far in advance of even what we have today that withstands disintegration over time. No words on the structure, no voice from clouds, no lightning bolts zapping out from, no need to keep reappearing himself every generation or so, to be certain skeptics might believe. Even some primitives on some remote island once seeing an image of such would respond like civilized scientists. But obviously as previously noted, God if he exists apparently does not want we humans to know he exists with certainty. He wants there to be great skepticism and doubt.

(more follows)

I don't think anywhere in any Scripture it is written that God wants His set apart (holy) born again people to have ANY skepticism or doubt at all; no, not at all (for mature believers) .

Instead, to live by faith in Jesus, trusting Him obediently and relying on Him, yes, is what God says He wants , how He wants His people to live.

 

[eleos1954]

Is there a better translation of that verse/ idea/ here or somewhere ?

(Yahuweh does not have "a face"/ parts/ pieces/ like humans do)

1 John 3:2

Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

Jesus IS God ... He took on the form of a man ... He will retain that form ... and so will we. Jesus appeared to many after his resurrection. He wanted us to know (after His death and resurrection) He did indeed have a body ...

Luke 24

38“Why are you troubled,” Jesus asked, “and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself. Touch Me and see—for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” 40And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and feet.

41While they were still in disbelief because of their joy and amazement, He asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42So they gave Him a piece of broiled fish, 43and He took it and ate it in front of them.

So we will see Jesus (who is God) in physical form just as He was on earth. Both the physical and the spiritual are in and through Jesus and we will live on a new physical earth made new by Him ... and our existence will be both physical and spiritual perfectly united through Him for eternity.

 

[Lonnie Owens]

I skimmed through another closed thread that was supposed to address why God chooses to be invisible but it was mostly off topic with predictable subjects. I'm starting this new thread on the subject as I'll be addressing it differently.

My science oriented perspective does not subscribe to Bible inerrancy and infallibility, multi-universes, god is on another plain of existence, time travel, precognition, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, miracles like magic. Note, will resist posts going off topic.
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That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god. We cannot obviously sense God. The Bible itself states God is invisible and that no one (on Earth) has seen his true essence except the Son. God does not with certainty sensually communicate with us although many believers will claim they can tell in some vague way that God is there guiding their thoughts. But if he exists, God could and may at least on extraordinary occasions do so under conditions that he has carefully evaluated as to be un-provable. Such might be described as un-manifested. It may also be that God as spirit is not visible by our organic visual system. The following Bible verses are examples showing God’s attitude in being secretive, hidden, invisible, un-manifested and how that was even understood at Jesus’s time. As to why, I'll speculate about that later:

Matthew 11:25-27 (NIV)
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.“
Colossians 1:15 (NASB)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Mathew 12:38>39 (NASB)
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Jhn 5:37 (NASB)
“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form

ok for one God is not disprovable.. whoever came up with that statement obviously hasn't heard a Baby cry, or felt the wind on their face... or even walked barefooted in the morning dew covered grass...

it is thoughts like this that confuse everyone....

 

[SkyWriting]

I skimmed through another closed thread that was supposed to address why God chooses to be invisible but it was mostly off topic with predictable subjects. I'm starting this new thread on the subject as I'll be addressing it differently.

My science oriented perspective does not subscribe to Bible inerrancy and infallibility, multi-universes, god is on another plain of existence, time travel, precognition, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, miracles like magic. Note, will resist posts going off topic.
-----------------------

That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god. We cannot obviously sense God. The Bible itself states God is invisible and that no one (on Earth) has seen his true essence except the Son. God does not with certainty sensually communicate with us although many believers will claim they can tell in some vague way that God is there guiding their thoughts. But if he exists, God could and may at least on extraordinary occasions do so under conditions that he has carefully evaluated as to be un-provable. Such might be described as un-manifested. It may also be that God as spirit is not visible by our organic visual system. The following Bible verses are examples showing God’s attitude in being secretive, hidden, invisible, un-manifested and how that was even understood at Jesus’s time. As to why, I'll speculate about that later:

Matthew 11:25-27 (NIV)
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.“
Colossians 1:15 (NASB)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Mathew 12:38>39 (NASB)
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Jhn 5:37 (NASB)
“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form

What was the question again?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

ok for one God is not disprovable.. whoever came up with that statement obviously hasn't heard a Baby cry, or felt the wind on their face... or even walked barefooted in the morning dew covered grass...

it is thoughts like this that confuse everyone....

Paul was quite clear in Romans that all we have to do is to look around us to know that the world around us was designed and created and so indicates that there is a Creator. He also says that the god of this world (Satan) has blinded those who do not believe lest they should see the light of the glory of God in the gospel of Christ.

Also, 2000 years ago, God came to the world in the person of Christ to show us who God really is, His nature and character. The Scripture says that Christ is the image and representation of the invisible Father. The four gospels are historical proof that God is really there and has revealed Himself to the world in Christ.

John wrote his gospel for the express purpose that people believe on Christ. His testimony of Christ is an eye-witness testimony, and you can't get better than that. He says that his eyes looked upon Christ and touched Him with his hands. Peter also testified to the reality of Christ, and so you you two impeccable eye-witnesses that God is real and approachable.

Luke was an educated man, very scrupulous in his research, interviewing many eye-witnesses to the events written in the gospels, many of these witnesses being still alive at the time he did his research. His gospel is as reliable as any historical record, even more reliable seeing that his record is based on actual eye-witness testimony, while most other histories, religious or secular, are not.

Those who have sought God with all their hearts, believing the truth of the Bible, have found Him and have entered into close, personal fellowship with Him.

 

[Dkh587]

There’s plenty of proof of God, it’s really a matter of whether or not you accept proof as proof.