Why is God hidden, invisible, unprovable?

Davidz777

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I will speculate, the dilemma for God is he wants communication with us, he wants to guide us beyond our behavioral limitations, while remaining uncertain to us without physical certainty. Thus as Halbhh noted, we must have what is referred to as faith. Today though we are flawed with original sin, God may be revealing himself in subtle invisible uncertain ways to those who seek him, pray to him, love him through faith alone, and are obedient to his will as presented in The Bible and especially through his son Jesus Christ.

So God is likely to want we beings that have a mind, intelligence, learning, and conscience to do things from our own free will within our innate nature and not as a consequence of external coercion and fears. Again, if coerced by fears with certainty even many with innate tendencies to be sinful, evil, and criminal would also believe and be obedient.

From the perspective of evolution for the sake of having meaning to those that believe such, one might speculate if descendants of unbelievers who actually saw God or his signs in certainty, if left alone to mere faith, would return to their innate negative natures. Conversely over generations people who believe by faith alone if evolution has effects, will tend to have descendants that have more positive behaviors as a result of their innate nature. In this way, God whose essence is love, sees a future when we fulfill his vision of what we at the pinnacle of creation on his beloved planet, can become. In other words, for we humans to evolve to what God wants us to become he must filter out those of us with those negative sinful tendencies using the same evolutionary process of physically evolved DNA and brain changes that from the secular perspective was used to get us to this point. And such may be deeply dependent on complexities of our minds that are otherwise impossible to change quickly even by a god given limitations.

That God works in such ways, one might consider Abraham's son's Ishmael and Hagar an indication he was seeking positive traits in humans and rewarding such with special favor that might rise over generations through natural human procreative processes...processes one might argue are Gods.
 
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Not David

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And that point has been brought up before and is highly debatable as scripture points out God visiting with people at different points within the bible. Especially in the case of Jesus:

John 14:9

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Since Jesus Christ is God, He has seen the Father.
 
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devin553344

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Since Jesus Christ is God, He has seen the Father.

In the Nicene creed we must accept that Jesus is God: John 14:9, and is one with God the Father. But the thread was about why is God invisible, not why is God the Father invisible. Or did I get that wrong?
 
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fhansen

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I skimmed through another closed thread that was supposed to address why God chooses to be invisible but it was mostly off topic with predictable subjects. I'm starting this new thread on the subject as I'll be addressing it differently. My science oriented perspective does not subscribe to Bible inerrancy and infallibility, multi-universes, god is on another plain of existence, time travel, precognition, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, miracles like magic. Note, will resist posts going off topic.
-----------------------

That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god. We cannot obviously sense God. The Bible itself states God is invisible and that no one (on Earth) has seen his true essence except the Son. God does not with certainty sensually communicate with us although many believers will claim they can tell in some vague way that God is there guiding their thoughts. But if he exists, God could and may at least on extraordinary occasions do so under conditions that he has carefully evaluated as to be un-provable. Such might be described as un-manifested. It may also be that God as spirit is not visible by our organic visual system. The following Bible verses are examples showing God’s attitude in being secretive, hidden, invisible, un-manifested and how that was even understood at Jesus’s time. As to why, I'll speculate about that later:

Matthew 11:25-27 (NIV)
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.“
Colossians 1:15 (NASB)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Mathew 12:38>39 (NASB)
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Jhn 5:37 (NASB)
“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form
God wants us to "own" our righteousness to the greatest extent possible before we meet Him, as He seeks to draw our wills into alignment with His, without force or determinism. He wants us to recognize and embrace the good as we develop a hunger and thirst for righteousness in a world where His direct control and will are withheld and evil is often the result-of man's will reigning instead, as Adam preferred. If the Master's in plain sight then the game's over; we don't have the option of choosing between good and evil because the ultimate Good is in our presence. With Him "gone" then a dramatic struggle unfolds within us, between the offerings/temptations of the world vs the need and desire for something more, something better, Something eternal.

By embarking on the journey towards that Something we already display a right orientation. And grace is ever present to call us on further towards Himself, helping us on this journey to the perfection He created us for which is only realized as we're fully bound to Him, loving Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength to put it another way. This will be fully consummated in the next life, where we meet that "Something" "face to face", having struggled and tested and arrived at finally meeting the Master, who's no longer "gone away".
 
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Davidz777

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I will speculate that God realizes until the basic nature of man changes, the situation regardless of what he might do to help current humans, is incrementally hopeless and would be never ending so. That is why he turned his back on Adam and Eve after their original sin disobedience that reads like a test on the human species. He had to figure out something else to fix the situation. Part of that involved the sacrifice of his own son Jesus. Thus a complex work is in process. But God does still love us so may work over time to change our basic nature, to evolve. God may see in the innate souls of good men and women a future that is free of evil tendencies and behaviors. Until then we may have to accept that naturalness will take its course while we mortal beings live, while he remains invisible, un-provable while saving the worthy during this human evolving phase for an eternal afterlife.
 
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dqhall

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I skimmed through another closed thread that was supposed to address why God chooses to be invisible but it was mostly off topic with predictable subjects. I'm starting this new thread on the subject as I'll be addressing it differently. My science oriented perspective does not subscribe to Bible inerrancy and infallibility, multi-universes, god is on another plain of existence, time travel, precognition, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, miracles like magic. Note, will resist posts going off topic.
-----------------------

That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god. We cannot obviously sense God. The Bible itself states God is invisible and that no one (on Earth) has seen his true essence except the Son. God does not with certainty sensually communicate with us although many believers will claim they can tell in some vague way that God is there guiding their thoughts. But if he exists, God could and may at least on extraordinary occasions do so under conditions that he has carefully evaluated as to be un-provable. Such might be described as un-manifested. It may also be that God as spirit is not visible by our organic visual system. The following Bible verses are examples showing God’s attitude in being secretive, hidden, invisible, un-manifested and how that was even understood at Jesus’s time. As to why, I'll speculate about that later:

Matthew 11:25-27 (NIV)
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.“
Colossians 1:15 (NASB)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Mathew 12:38>39 (NASB)
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Jhn 5:37 (NASB)
“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form
The non-existence of God is not visible, nor provable. There was a time when man had not learned to measure gravity or the acceleration of falling objects. Sir Isaac Newton changed that. He also searched the scriptures. He found Peter’s writings in 2 Peter 3 about the destruction of this planet. He speculated a comet might eliminate the place.

I sometimes thought a supernova, expanding sun, or black hole might eliminate this place if God does not replace it with a better world first.

Archaeology only proves part of the Bible. Archaeology has also been used to show the Bible contains errors. People should seek a personal relationship with God. This might be difficult if not impossible for those lost in sin. Jesus advised, “Seek and you shall find.” Where would a person find God? The Good Samaritan may have moved closer to God in helping a wounded stranger along a mountain road. This is recorded in a Gospel account. Jesus’ teachings is where we should look for instruction.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Archaeology only proves part of the Bible. Archaeology has also been used to show the Bible contains errors. People should seek a personal relationship with God. This might be difficult if not impossible for those lost in sin.
Mankind has rejected God's Word for thousands of years. Even some of His Own People did, who were cut out so we (gentiles) could be grafted in.
But there are no errors in God's Word.
Man will use all kind of 'science'/ so-called knowledge and wisdom of men/ to try to show errors.
That is sinful, and wrong.

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

John 1:12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who ...
[Search domain biblehub.com/john/1-12.htm] John 1:12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God--
But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: Douay-Rheims Bible But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.

Weymouth New Testament
"Strain every nerve to force your way in through the narrow gate," He answered; "for multitudes, I tell you, will endeavour to find a way in and will not succeed.

World English Bible
"Strive to enter in by the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in, and will not be able.

Young's Literal Translation
'Be striving to go in through the straight gate, because many, I say to you, will seek to go in, and shall not be able;
 
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Not David

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In the Nicene creed we must accept that Jesus is God: John 14:9, and is one with God the Father. But the thread was about why is God invisible, not why is God the Father invisible. Or did I get that wrong?
Well, in that verse, Christ talks about God the Father but He means "no one has seen God in His essence".
 
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GingerBeer

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I skimmed through another closed thread that was supposed to address why God chooses to be invisible but it was mostly off topic with predictable subjects. I'm starting this new thread on the subject as I'll be addressing it differently. My science oriented perspective does not subscribe to Bible inerrancy and infallibility, multi-universes, god is on another plain of existence, time travel, precognition, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, miracles like magic. Note, will resist posts going off topic.
-----------------------

That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god. We cannot obviously sense God. The Bible itself states God is invisible and that no one (on Earth) has seen his true essence except the Son. God does not with certainty sensually communicate with us although many believers will claim they can tell in some vague way that God is there guiding their thoughts. But if he exists, God could and may at least on extraordinary occasions do so under conditions that he has carefully evaluated as to be un-provable. Such might be described as un-manifested. It may also be that God as spirit is not visible by our organic visual system. The following Bible verses are examples showing God’s attitude in being secretive, hidden, invisible, un-manifested and how that was even understood at Jesus’s time. As to why, I'll speculate about that later:

Matthew 11:25-27 (NIV)
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.“
Colossians 1:15 (NASB)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Mathew 12:38>39 (NASB)
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Jhn 5:37 (NASB)
“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form
There is another possible reply. God is invisible, silent, hidden because God does not exist in any way whatever.

I do not adhere to that view but it is an answer that ought not be ignored.
 
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devin553344

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How can you show someone who is invisible then?

Galatians 5:22-23 show us that the Holy Spirit does not hide from mankind. Jesus the Son didn't hide from us. That is 2/3 of God. And God the Father appointed Jesus as our mediator with the Father, so if you see Jesus you have seen the Father. That is what John 14:9 is referring to. God isn't hiding. 1 Timothy 2:5

Perhaps you must be God to behold his essence. So that point is mute.

Jesus apparently is preparing a place John 14:3 so he technically isn't hiding.
 
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devin553344

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He hides himself, for the same reason that he speaks in parables....because he only wants to be found, by those want to find him.

John 6:44 indicates that you cannot seek God yourself though.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

And that is why we have so many false prophets.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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There is another possible reply. God is invisible, silent, hidden because God does not exist in any way whatever.

I do not adhere to that view but it is an answer that ought not be ignored.

Yes, that must always be considered as a possibility because it then requires faith in God. Faith is important because it stretches us.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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What do you think of this Scripture in relation to the things of God being revealed to believers?

"However, as it is written:
What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived —
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God"
(1 Corinthians 2:9-10).
 
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Not David

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Galatians 5:22-23 show us that the Holy Spirit does not hide from mankind. Jesus the Son didn't hide from us. That is 2/3 of God. And God the Father appointed Jesus as our mediator with the Father, so if you see Jesus you have seen the Father. That is what John 14:9 is referring to. God isn't hiding. 1 Timothy 2:5

Perhaps you must be God to behold his essence. So that point is mute.

Jesus apparently is preparing a place John 14:3 so he technically isn't hiding.
Of course God does not hide bur that doesn't mean He is not invisible.
 
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klutedavid

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I skimmed through another closed thread that was supposed to address why God chooses to be invisible but it was mostly off topic with predictable subjects. I'm starting this new thread on the subject as I'll be addressing it differently. My science oriented perspective does not subscribe to Bible inerrancy and infallibility, multi-universes, god is on another plain of existence, time travel, precognition, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, miracles like magic. Note, will resist posts going off topic.
-----------------------

That no one in modern times has been able to provide certain physical proof of god or even spiritual existences looking back through human history, is the strongest scientific evidence for atheistic resistance to belief in any god. We cannot obviously sense God. The Bible itself states God is invisible and that no one (on Earth) has seen his true essence except the Son. God does not with certainty sensually communicate with us although many believers will claim they can tell in some vague way that God is there guiding their thoughts. But if he exists, God could and may at least on extraordinary occasions do so under conditions that he has carefully evaluated as to be un-provable. Such might be described as un-manifested. It may also be that God as spirit is not visible by our organic visual system. The following Bible verses are examples showing God’s attitude in being secretive, hidden, invisible, un-manifested and how that was even understood at Jesus’s time. As to why, I'll speculate about that later:

Matthew 11:25-27 (NIV)
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.“
Colossians 1:15 (NASB)
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Mathew 12:38>39 (NASB)
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Jhn 5:37 (NASB)
“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form
The creator is not invisible as the creator has been observed.

Daniel 10:5-6
I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.

The truth is that the creator (YHWH) is both visible (Jesus Christ, YHWH) and invisible.
 
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devin553344

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Of course God does not hide bur that doesn't mean He is not invisible.

I saw that God the Father has an invisible part to him. But to be completely honest the Father spoke to me one day and proclaimed for me to worship Jesus and taught me how. And He spoke to me physically and I saw Him having a beyond physical form like that of a man, but much more powerful. And He did so from a great distance like that beyond the stars.
 
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