Why I can't accept Christianity

[Kim7229]

Well you would have to have some confidence that the Bible is historically accurate in order to believe these scriptural verses.

Exodus 13 (God)
14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, "I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

John 8
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

So you don't know it to be true. You just believe what the Bible says. If correct, then why do you pretend to know it? This is yet another thing which has turned me off about Christianity - the tendency of Christians to act as if they know things which they don't really know.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You ask about struggles. It would be impossible for me to believe without a reconciliation of the problem of evil and the problem of omniscience. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. How do you reconcile the problem of evil and the problem of omniscience? Here are some illustrations:

If God loves everyone, can do anything and knows everything, then he would prevent a rapist from brutally raping a child. But he doesn't. How do you reconcile this?

I don't; in fact, I haven't ever since my late mother told me about what happened to her when she was age 5, and I for one have never been able to reconcile that fact of that awful thing, along with all of the other facets of the rest of her suffering life, with the fact that the Bible tells me that Jesus loves us so.

However, even with that being the case, I have found that by continuing to explore, expand and challenge the various arguments that are put forth by both Christians and their detractors (i.e. skeptics and atheists), I've reached a point in my thinking where I think God, in and through the person of Jesus Christ, is 'bigger' than the suffering that any one of faces here on this planet.

If God knows everything, then he knows what you will choose out of any A/B choice you make tomorrow. Let's say he knows you'll choose A and you proceed to choose B. How do you reconcile this?

I don't reconcile it; however, by applying some Analytic Philosophical measures, I pare down and pare out the various nuances of meaning that tend to get all sludged, fudged, and smudged together in the so-called problem of God's Omniscience.

 

[Dave L]

So you're saying the reason God doesn't prevent rapists from raping children is because without that, we have no concept of good vs. bad. If God can do anything, couldn't he have created us with an innate sense of good vs. bad?

God punishes sin with death in all its forms. He would not be good if he did not. Babies die because we are a corrupt species. And the wages of sin is death. Those who live to old age suffer more in hell because of more sins they committed.

But God took his wrath for those who believe in Christ on the cross in their place. By this we see his love and mercy in taking the equivalent of the wrath they deserve.

 

[Lost4words]

You are here, on a Christian website. Who brought you here? Yes, God!

The Bible is very complex but, Christianity is much more than words in a book. Look at the bigger picture. Dont get hung up on just scripture. Thats the beauty of Catholicism. We have Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Open your mind to God. He is not trapped in the Bible.

 

[Serving Zion]

Could it be that some of the way in which you conceptualize the 'failures' of the Christian faith have come about because you've only been involved with certain strains or certain denominations of Christians?

Only partially (unless you can show a church that has no failure in it's Christianity -- which I have not yet found). So the part that is valid, is OP's potential of finding someone whose Christianity is capable of being a support at that critical moment of decision, versus one whose Christianity proves to be a stumbling block as in Luke 17:1, and to that end, it becomes a numbers game (to a large extent). See what I mean as it is spoken of through Matthew 13:25 and Matthew 9:37.

Every choice we make has a life-changing effect, and our choices are inevitably dependent upon the influence of the world around us .. and that having accumulated. Therefore making a tree good, produces good fruit, but a tree made rotten produces rotten fruit .. and then, can a man pluck figs from a thorn bush? .. now as we see the state of Christianity, so mangled and perverted as the course of failing human decisions has produced, our situation is like that of Isaiah 5.

 

[royal priest]

I still hold all my Christian values which I grew up with. I merely don't believe that a god actually exists. Nor do I think the Bible is a book of history.

Values which are not christocentric are considered moralistic, and opposed to Christianity. There are many people who do "good works", but such works are actually evil in God's eyes if He does not receive the credit for them.
John 3:20-21
"For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

The act itself may appear righteous, but the motivation is what matters to God. The summation of the 10 commandments is to love God with all our heart, mind, and strength. This is something an unbeliever cannot do, the degree of his sincerity, notwithstanding. Moreover, humanity's standard of righteousness denies the biblical reality that mankind is at enmity with God and with each other.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

How did these people verify that what revealed itself to them was really a god?

We only know through historical writings in the Bible. This is a song Israel wrote about God: Quite telling:

The Song of Moses

For He has triumphed gloriously!
The horse and its rider
He has thrown into the sea!
2 The Lord is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation;
He is my God, and I will praise Him;
My father’s God, and I will exalt Him.
3 The Lord is a man of war;
The Lord is His name.
4 Pharaoh’s chariots and his army He has cast into the sea;
His chosen captains also are drowned in the Red Sea.
5 The depths have covered them;
They sank to the bottom like a stone.
6 “Your right hand, O Lord, has become glorious in power;
Your right hand, O Lord, has dashed the enemy in pieces.
7 And in the greatness of Your excellence
You have overthrown those who rose against You;
You sent forth Your wrath;
It consumed them like stubble.
8 And with the blast of Your nostrils
The waters were gathered together;
The floods stood upright like a heap;
The depths congealed in the heart of the sea.
9 The enemy said, ‘I will pursue,
I will overtake,
I will divide the spoil;
My desire shall be satisfied on them.
I will draw my sword,
My hand shall destroy them.’
10 You blew with Your wind,
The sea covered them;
They sank like lead in the mighty waters.
11 “Who is like You, O Lord, among the gods?
Who is like You, glorious in holiness,
Fearful in praises, doing wonders?
12 You stretched out Your right hand;
The earth swallowed them.
13 You in Your mercy have led forth
The people whom You have redeemed;
You have guided them in Your strength
To Your holy habitation.
14 “The people will hear and be afraid;
Sorrow will take hold of the inhabitants of Philistia.
15 Then the chiefs of Edom will be dismayed;
The mighty men of Moab,
Trembling will take hold of them;
All the inhabitants of Canaan will melt away.
16 Fear and dread will fall on them;
By the greatness of Your arm
They will be as still as a stone,
Till Your people pass over, O Lord,
Till the people pass over
Whom You have purchased.
17 You will bring them in and plant them
In the mountain of Your inheritance,
In the place, O Lord, which You have made
For Your own dwelling,
The sanctuary, O Lord, which Your hands have established.
18 “The Lord shall reign forever and ever.”

 

[Serving Zion]

But God took his wrath for those who believe in Christ on the cross

(For OP's benefit), there is much more perspective of God's wrath that doesn't convey well through the English translations, which is the angle I was introducing to you in my first post.

You can learn more about our present state of those having darkness that they think is light (Matthew 6:23), if you would like to consider more about how God's wrath comes upon the sons of disobedience (Colossians 3:6), I wrote this article about that: Adonai Reigns : Food For Thought : Wrath of God: Divine Punishment?

 

[Kim7229]

God punishes sin with death in all its forms.

Why would a loving God punish sin with death? That doesn't sound much like love to me.

He would not be good if he did not.

So Christianity teaches that it is loving to kill others. That's one of many reasons I don't care anymore for Christianity.

Babies die because we are a corrupt species.

How do you know that? The medical and scientific world has come to different conclusions as to why babies die.

And the wages of sin is death. Those who live to old age suffer more in hell because of more sins they committed.

How do you know that anyone suffers in hell?

But God took his wrath for those who believe in Christ on the cross in their place. By this we see his love and mercy in taking the equivalent of the wrath they deserve.

How do you know this?

 

[Kim7229]

How did these people verify that what revealed itself to them was really a god?

We only know through historical writings in the Bible.

So they didn't really verify that what was revealed to them was revealed by a god. What do you suppose then is the reason they concluded it was a god and not some unknown natural source?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

How did anyone go about verifying that the flesh which came into this world was really part of God?

Back to the scriptures again, Jesus fulfilled over 400 prophesies about His coming. You can probably read them all by narrowing a search online or better yet watch "A Case for Christ" this guy went out to prove Jesus never existed!

While Jesus walked on the earth and specifically during His 3 year ministry, He not only claimed to be God in the flesh but He demonstrated with many miracles as well as proclaimed the authority to forgive sins. He was even called out by a demon!

Luke 4
31 Then He went down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and was teaching them on the Sabbaths. 32 And they were astonished at His teaching, for His word was with authority. 33 Now in the synagogue there was a man who had a spirit of an unclean demon. And he cried out with a loud voice, 34 saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Why did God need to send Jesus to to humanity for this purpose when he could have done it himself?

He did do it Himself, He took the form of flesh as the final sacrifice for all sin.

John (God and Jesus are one)
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

 

[Kim7229]

Back to the scriptures again, Jesus fulfilled over 400 prophesies about His coming. You can probably read them all by narrowing a search online or better yet watch "A Case for Christ" this guy went out to prove Jesus never existed!

While Jesus walked on the earth and specifically during His 3 year ministry, He not only claimed to be God in the flesh but He demonstrated with many miracles as well as proclaimed the authority to forgive sins. He was even called out by a demon!

Luke 4
31 Then He went down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and was teaching them on the Sabbaths. 32 And they were astonished at His teaching, for His word was with authority. 33 Now in the synagogue there was a man who had a spirit of an unclean demon. And he cried out with a loud voice, 34 saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”

When one alleges that something violated our known laws of physics, what do you suppose is more likely?
1) That something violated our known laws of physics
2) the allegation is made up

 

[Kim7229]

He did do it Himself, He took the form of flesh as the final sacrifice for all sin.

John (God and Jesus are one)
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

How do you know this really occurred?

 

[mark kennedy]

You are here, on a Christian website. Who brought you here? Yes, God!

The Bible is very complex but, Christianity is much more than words in a book. Look at the bigger picture. Dont get hung up on just scripture. Thats the beauty of Catholicism. We have Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Open your mind to God. He is not trapped in the Bible.

God hasn't spoken directly to me and certainly has not confirmed it through signs, miracles and mighty deeds. The role of popes, councils and traditions is largely pastoral. The New Testament is Apostolic authority, apart from Christ himself the is no higher ecclesiastical authority. Rome would come along later, hundreds of years later laying claim to only a Bishop's office, which is no small thing mind you. The Orthodox have a compelling tradition, a fine eccesiastical tradition all believers should hold in high regard. However when it comes to ecclesiastical authority you cannot beat the Levitical, prophetic and apostolic authority of Scripture.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[~Zao~]

What's your definition of evil?
For the purposes of my posts, evil means things like genocide, slaughter of innocent people, mass shootings, natural disasters in which thousands of people die, babies getting cancer, etc.

Working in the garden and hitting your head against a spiders nest.

 

[Lost4words]

Catholic church....Apostolic Tradition

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So they didn't really verify that what was revealed to them was revealed by a god. What do you suppose then is the reason they concluded it was a god and not some unknown natural source?

Good question. They did confirm; when God delivered them from Egypt. The whole Pharaoh vs Moses encounter was not only to free Israel but it was a showdown (for lack of a better word) between the god of Egypt and the God of Israel. In fact many Egyptians joined Israel in their Exodus out of Egypt because their god failed to prove existence and power while the "God of Israel" demonstrated enormous power thus rendering their god inapt.

Exodus 12

37 Then the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides children. 38 A mixed multitude went up with them also, and flocks and herds—a great deal of livestock. 39 And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they had brought out of Egypt; for it was not leavened, because they were driven out of Egypt and could not wait, nor had they prepared provisions for themselves.

Found the link to the documentary:

 

[~Zao~]

God created evil for his glory. We have no concept of good without bad. Or mercy without wrath. Or love if not for hatred. Or sovereignty without damnation of some and salvation for others.

I agree. Without the black backdrop to view the stars we wouldn't see light.

 

[~Zao~]

. when it comes to ecclesiastical authority you cannot beat the Levitical..

Grace and peace,
Mark

Your obviously one of those who want to take Hebrews out of the bible.

 

[hedrick]

You give a number of problems. But before looking at them, there’s a more important question: Do you have a reason to follow Jesus? If you do, we can talk about the problems, and probably deal with them. But Christianity doesn’t continue because of those kinds of arguments. It exists because people feel they’ve experienced God’s presence, or they find Christianity makes sense of life, or worship and the Christian community is important to them. Is that the case for you?

If so, and you’re just worried about the kinds of issues in the OP, there are two general approaches. The one most common here is to convince you that they’re aren’t any contradictions, it makes perfect sense for God to punish people who reject him forever, etc. Read the other posts. Maybe you’ll find them convincing. I don’t, but most Christians do.

The other approach is to see the Bible as a human witness, something written by people who experienced God’s actions, but were still fallible humans, and who sometimes misunderstood what God wanted. (No, I don’t think God wanted Israel to commit genocide, nor do I think they actually did.) As to the Mafia boss: most Christians, I believe even those participating in CF, think God makes allowances for what people know. The people who end up in trouble are those who consciously reject the Good (as best they know it). There’s simply no way to make a person like that fit into the Kingdom. We can’t talk about it in this particular forum, but if you look in Controversial Christian Theology you’ll find plenty of us who doubt your points 3 and 4, and don’t think Scripture even teaches them.