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Why I can't accept Christianity

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by Kim7229, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. DarkSoul999

    DarkSoul999 Active Member

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    I probably should
     
  2. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How could a God that created all things including creation create something more wonderful then Himself?
     
  3. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God doesn’t say their is “evidence” per se as you seem to be speaking about.

    What is true however is that if you look at city and providence names (geography), people (Jesus was confirmed by a Roman historian), archeological digs, ect evidence does exist.

    It may not be the evidence you desire, but it does exist.

    The Dead Sea Scrolls are a good example. They have been carbon dated.
     
  4. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is goodness everyday every where. You just choose not to see it.

    When someone chooses forgiveness instead of revenge. When someone chooses life over abortion. When someone sees the advance of someone of the opposite sex but ignores it to be faithful to their spouse. When someone gives money they could have kept and spent to a charity.

    Do I need to go on?
     
  5. ICONO'CLAST

    ICONO'CLAST Well-Known Member

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    Here is the reason people cannot believe scripture unless God allows them to believe:
    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
     
  6. DarkSoul999

    DarkSoul999 Active Member

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    I don't think we are even discussing the same topic.....

    You are discussing people. People are a complicated topic. Let's start with the natural world in general before moving on to that.

    Physical creation is a fallen mess. Matter is basically being flung about like it is in a pinball machine. This is why the natural world is cruel to us. This is why disease came into existence. Even natural disasters are the result of us unwisely being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is almost impossible to avoid danger for a whole lifetime even now in the 21st century despite the fact that technology has made it far less common for many people.
     
  7. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I see what your point is.

    Mine is the sun comes up every morning, the birds chirp, the seasons come and the seasons go, the world turns, there is air to breathe, water to drink, babies being born.

    Thats all beauty in the natural world. Flowers bloom, leaves grow on the trees.

    It's your perspective. Your looking for all the things that can or could go wrong. And you will find them and see them.

    But God is in control. Not of the day to day stuff all over, but God has a will and when things get too bad, it will end.
     
  8. DarkSoul999

    DarkSoul999 Active Member

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    You are just a very lucky person. There are a lot of people who have absolutely no escape from the torture and agony every single minute of every single day. They don't get to even contemplate the EXISTENCE of morning dew, chirping birds, etc because their neurons are firing off a pain response nonstop all day long. God is not going to stop any of that until he decides to flick the off switch on the entire world.
     
  9. JesusYeshuaisLord

    JesusYeshuaisLord Member

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    If you go to church and everyone knows that you are not a christian than that's 'fine' to go to church with them (I don't think anyone would prevent anyone to go to church unless they have malignant motives) but if you are lying to them just because you want to have a good social time then that's not right.

    If I were not a christian there is no way I could sit through a church service! I'd just get deeply annoyed. So, even this (still going to church and coming on this forum) could be God wooing you to him.

    God is not a mafia boss, he is just to the point, plain and clear: "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." Deu 30:19
    You can either look at it as a threat and defy him and tell him that he is wrong, this will not change the end result. You can't expect to jump off the Empire state building without a parachute (or whatever else) and expect to come out alive. You can't plant a lemon tree and harvest apples from it, etc...God only says this is how things are, take it or leave it.

    Just be conscious that we either gather wrath or blessings for ourselves. You going there is either gonna draw you close or away, I hope that is close.

    We will all give glory to God, either by our repenting or our perishing. May God bless you with the knowledge of him.
     
  10. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don’t believe that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  11. DarkSoul999

    DarkSoul999 Active Member

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    Which part do you not believe? That people suffer that much or that God will do nothing about it until the world ends?
     
  12. leftrightleftrightleft

    leftrightleftrightleft Well-Known Member

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    Welcome.

    There are many branches of Christianity and I would caution you from equating what a particular group of Christians say in 2018 with what God is or what Jesus said 2000 years ago. There's a lot to unpack and a lot of historical baggage.

    Yes, very likely. The idea that parts of the Bible are allegorical, metaphorical or poetic goes back to a time before Christianity or "the Bible" even existed. Jewish scholars like Philo of Alexandria advocated for allegorical interpretations of Genesis. Philo of Alexandria lived before Jesus. Some early and influential Christian thinkers such as Origin of Alexandria and St. Augustine suggested allegorical interpretations of parts of the Bible.

    It is also worth remembering that the Bible is allegorical in a self-referential way. For example, the Gospel of Matthew interprets Hosea 11:1 allegorically.

    Church as community can be very rewarding and important. Even if you don't believe every part or agree with every thing the priest/pastor is saying, it does not matter. I would encourage you to take notes during sermons and write down things you disagree with. Write down any logical inconsistencies you see or things that don't make sense. It can be very rewarding and you will learn a lot.

    I don't think you need to have all your ducks in a row before you sit in the pew. You can question. You can wrestle. You can ask questions. It would be great if you could find someone in the church who is also of a similar philosophical mindset that you can share your thoughts with via a weekly or monthly coffee/dinner date.

    Yes the Bible contains contradictions. The Bible need not be seen as literal history nor does it need to be seen as a textbook. And even if you do view it as a textbook, just because a textbook has some errors does not invalidate the whole book (especially if the error is just a small typo or something). In ancient times, books like those that are in the Bible were not viewed through our scientific lens. They had a very well-developed story-telling culture. The arc of the story was what was truly important. The meaning or moral of the story was of ultimate importance. The Gospels highlight this in a great way: four different stories with different details that all contain the same general arc.

    The Old Testament is messy. It records a particular Near Eastern tribe's history from thousands of years ago. Life was rough back then. It included near-constant war with neighbouring tribes. In comparison, the 21st century is arguably one of the most peaceful and prosperous times in all of history. We are far-removed from killing and war (especially in Western countries).

    To me, the Old Testament is primarily there to explain the culture from which Jesus came. Jesus does not advocate slaughter or killing. The New Testament does not advocate slaughter or killing.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and argue that most ancient Jews and most early Christians did not believe that God was omniscient or omnipotent.

    The Bible contains very few references that explicitly say that God is omnipotent or omniscient. Much of the Old Testament consists of different tribes trying to out-compete each other's gods. The only idea that truly comes from the Old Testament is that the God of Israel (e.g. Yahweh) is more powerful than other gods. But it does not imply that Yahweh is all powerful.

    There are also various verses in the Bible that suggest that God is not omniscient (or at least that the Jewish writers didn't think he was omniscient). In Genesis, God doesn't know where Adam and Eve are hiding (Genesis 3:9). God frequently changes his mind suggesting that the future is un-determined and un-knowable (e.g. Exodus 32:14, Amos 7:3, Jonah 3:10, Jeremiah 26:13, etc.)

    The only thing that the New Testament is very clear on is that God is all-loving and all-good (i.e. omnibenevolent). That much is clear. God loves.

    The Old Testament also says this at times but also contains some unsavoury bits where God tells people to obliterate entire towns and stuff. Make of this what you may. In some sense, God cannot be all rainbows and butterflies because that makes morality useless. The only way morality can actually matter is if God gets mad when people screw up. Just like how a parent will punish their child for doing something wrong. If a parent just lets their kid run free and un-punished then the kid won't grow up into the best person they can be. Punishment is a feature rather than a flaw. But I do recognize that the way it is written in the Bible is kind of over-the-top and obliterating entire towns is a bit on the hyperbolic side. If we take a long-view of history then this kind of over-the-top cosmic punishment could maybe make some sense. Like I said earlier, it was a war-filled time in history where people were killing people all the time. It may have been tempting for a tribal leader to justify the war by appealing to a higher power.

    I'll also mention that most of Christian history has focused on the epic dualistic battle of good and evil (e.g. God vs. Satan). A battle implies a fight which implies that God is not omnipotent. He is fighting for us. It also implies that God does not necessarily know how it will turn out. He is not omniscient. If the universe is a battle between good and evil then sometimes that spiritual battle will spill over into an actual physical battle. If God needs to get people to physically fight and kill others in order to stop some greater evil then maybe that is sometimes an unfortunate reality. For example, in World War II, many people had to fight and die in order to eradicate the horrible ideas of the Nazis. Would it have been better if no one fought them? Perhaps fighting and killing is sometimes virtuous. It sounds unsavoury to our 21st century ideals of peace and harmony, but it has historically been very necessary.

    Our faith is not that God is omnipotent. Our faith is that our god is a god of love and goodness and he will win the fight.

    I feel that this view solves the problem of evil very simply. It explains cancer and tsunamis and murder and rape and everything bad in the world. These are just the times where Evil "beats" God in God's cosmic effort to eradicate suffering. The Christian message is to have faith not that there will never be suffering but rather to have faith that one day God will win and suffering will be eradicated. This philosophy also inspires action as we must be the best person we can be in helping to eradicate suffering from our own lives and the lives around us. We should try to be part of the solution in this active spiritual and physical battle.

    I think modern Christianity has completely missed the boat on the way Jesus, ancient Christians, and ancient Jews viewed the afterlife.

    I would encourage you to read up on the history of Heaven and Hell. The Bible is not particularly clear on what heaven or hell is. The ancient Jews had the concept of "Sheol" which was just a general term for the afterlife or the grave. It was non-dualistic (e.g. everyone basically went to Sheol after death). It was neither a place of eternal torment or a place of eternal bliss. Both the righteous and the unrighteous went there.

    Jesus uses the garbage dump outside Jerusalem (Gehenna) where garbage was burned as a metaphor for what happens to people that don't repent to God before they die. This place is often translated as "hell" in modern Bibles although "hell" was a dualistic term borrowed from Greek thinkers. There is no indication that Jesus thought of this as any sort of literal place.

    The Kingdom of Heaven is also a common phrase used by Jesus. But he often implies that it is a place here and now rather than some other place elsewhere in the future (e.g. Matthew 3:2, Matthew 10:7, Romans 14:17, etc.). It is accessible to us as a state of mind and may not be specifically related to an afterlife, per se.

    The message of Jesus is essentially a message of repentance and forgiveness. The way I view it is that we can choose to follow Jesus' message and find a more whole life. We put on the mind of Christ and seek God in all we do. That is the Kingdom of Heaven at hand here and now. What happens when we die is unknowable. But we can have faith that its something nice.

    For me, I don't worry too much about the afterlife. It's too easy to become obsessed with it and miss out on the actual life you are living now.

    I recommend the book The Wisdom Jesus by Cynthia Bourgeault.
     
  13. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Please do not answer this question if it makes you feel uncomfortable. But do you suffer from a mental illness?
     
  14. natasreficul

    natasreficul New Member

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    Apart from in many Muslim countries (whose faith I suspect you reject), the only commandments that are written into law is commandment no.6, commandment no. 8, & commandment no. 9 (in a court of law only). That is only 3 of the 10 commandments. Based on your logic, that means that we SHOULD reject most of it!
     
  15. natasreficul

    natasreficul New Member

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    That is an excellent video & very thought provoking.
     
  16. DarkSoul999

    DarkSoul999 Active Member

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    I used to think I had a mental illness but now I'm really starting to believe that I've been cursed by some cosmic force. That cosmic force is most likely Satan but it really appears like Satan is the absolute dominant force and God is just watching him do his work like it's some sort of gladiatorial match between a barbarian champion and a toddler.

    It's not just feelings but very real tangible JINXES. I can't think of a single thing that I've ever attempted that wasn't obliterated by a series of unfortunate events happening at exactly the wrong place at the wrong time.

    I no longer have any hope of ever having a normal life. What little hope I had left was annihilated last year and now it's just a countdown until death. I'll never get to have a family or be accepted by another human and even heaven is impossible to reach now because my soul is a shattered, nonfunctional wreck.

    The only thing left to do is continue to work 70-80 hours per week until I have a heart attack and die. At least that way I'll be USEFUL towards those who are loved and blessed by God.
     
  17. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Have you considered it is theology, not scripture that is at fault?
     
  18. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Why i cant stop being a christian. Jesus is my strength and hope.
     
  19. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    IF you have a doctor and health insurance there is no reason for you not to be evaluated.

    I think you for sure have depression.

    Not the depression that people talk about feeling down sometimes, but a clinical depression that is a mental illness but that must be diagnosed by a mental health professional.

    Seriously. You don’t have to feel this way. I think something may be wrong.

    Don’t be afraid if you have clinical depression. Much of it is a problem with the body. some people’s bodies do not release certain endorphins into the system.

    Are you going to get checked out?
     
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