• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured Why hasn't Jesus come back yet?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by mindlight, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

    +586
    Christian
    Married
    The promise of the Messiah is given in Genesis 3:15...
    And I will put enmity
    between you and the woman,
    and between your offspring and hers;
    he will crush your head,
    and you will strike his heel.’
    (Of course context is God speaking to the serpent/Satan)

    About 4000 years of recorded history later the Bible records Christ's birth.
     
  2. summerville

    summerville Well-Known Member

    +404
    United States
    Anglican
    Single
    "His heel" referencing her offspring... Are you taught that Genesis is literal?
     
  3. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

    +586
    Christian
    Married
    "His" there is referring to Jesus. He was to sustain an injury by Satan which occurs during His final act of redemption (the cross). Satan was defeated and so the phrase "crush his head".
    Yes, Genesis is a real account and Romans confirms it; it is in both the OT and NT and is treated as a serious account in both Testaments of the Bible despite the antiquity of Genesis.
    This was not your original issue with my post however, rather you questioned the 4,000 years from the promised Messiah to His birth. Genesis to Matthew.
     
  4. summerville

    summerville Well-Known Member

    +404
    United States
    Anglican
    Single
    Every culture and religion has creation myths also known as foundational myths. I wouldn't take them literally. Genesis is adapted from an earlier story from Sumer.
     
  5. summerville

    summerville Well-Known Member

    +404
    United States
    Anglican
    Single
    Every culture and religion has creation myths also known as foundational myths. I wouldn't take them literally. Genesis is adapted from an earlier story from Sumer.
     
  6. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,323
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    John the Baptist warned the 1st century Jews that "the axe was laid at the foot of the[ir] tree"

    The "Apocalypse" was coming to them = 70 AD

    But after Armageddon (fall of Babylon), significant time passes (10 horns) until the Christ conquers (fall of the Beast) = 4th century AD conversion of pagan empire to Christianity

    then a thousand years later, the Millennium ends = 1453 AD fall of Constantinople

    since then it's been the "little time of Gog & Magog"

    It terms of major events (Armageddon vs. Babylon = 70 AD fall of Jerusalem, Christ conquering Beast = 4th century AD conversion of pagan empire, Millennium = Byzantine empire, unchaining of Satan = 15th century AD fall of Constantinople and slide into modern secularism et al) Revelation is 4-for-4...

    hence the wise would assume it will end up 5-for-5 and "fire from heaven" will scorch the earth sometime Biblically soon

    the escalating Wrath of Judgement crescendos from one city to one empire to one whole planet...

    over the course of >2000 years...

    the series of events cannot be telescoped together (not in human time scales, anyway)


    The Greek LXX Septuagint says 5500 years

    The NT overwhelmingly favors the LXX readings over and against the Masoretic ones

    The Biblical "Sabbath Day" of the 7th Millennium from Eden was 500-1500 AD = Byzantine empire

    It's been all "Gog & Magog" since, until "fire from heaven" (the only remaining unfulfilled prophesy)

    that's just the way it's gonna be -- w.a.t.c.h.
     
  7. summerville

    summerville Well-Known Member

    +404
    United States
    Anglican
    Single
    I always thought that Gog and Magog was a reference to the Scythians of southern Russia AKA the Stans.

    Around 624 B.C. the Scythians invaded the south and occupied Asia Minor, Syria, Media, Palestine and much of Assyria. They conquered as far south as Egypt, but spared that nation when the Egyptians offered them tribute money.
     
  8. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

    +586
    Christian
    Married
    You may chose either age for this issue...the original issue if you recall was that if the promise of a Messiah (given to Adam and Eve) and fulfilled that many years later then we should not suppose Christ late in His Return or Second Coming.
     
  9. summerville

    summerville Well-Known Member

    +404
    United States
    Anglican
    Single
    Paul and the Apostles were absolutely convinced Jesus would be returning soon … within a generation of the Crucifixion.. How did they get it so wrong while Hal Lindsey got it right?
     
  10. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

    +586
    Christian
    Married
    We must always W-A-T-C-H! That's what was always commanded even at the time the signs of the end were given to the disciples. The Book of Revelation reinforces that axiom. See the opening to Revelation, blessed are they who read these words and understand it and keep it. Revelation is a review of the Gospel using the Bible.
    Daniel says those who know their God will firmly resist him (Satan). Many of the wise will stumble so they can be refined and purified at that time. That time is the end time...probably when Satan is loosed to go out to deceive the nations.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  11. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

    +586
    Christian
    Married
    They were dutiful and watching and the signs have been visible from Christ's death. Peter does not say the time is NOW or short instead he preaches against the scoffers (II Peter 3)
    Some point to where Paul says the time is short (I Corinthians 7:29). That does not say time is short until the Judgement Day there. He could be referring to their impending death by persecution. But we all should live in watchfulness as Jesus did command.
     
  12. summerville

    summerville Well-Known Member

    +404
    United States
    Anglican
    Single
    Daniel 11:32 is about Antiochus IV. He was a king of the North.
     
  13. summerville

    summerville Well-Known Member

    +404
    United States
    Anglican
    Single
    Why do you suppose Jesus told them to flee to the mountains?

    The fourth-century church fathers Eusebius and Epiphanius of Salamis cite a tradition that before the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 the Jerusalem Christians had been miraculously warned to flee to Pella in the region of the Decapolis across the Jordan River.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  14. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

    +435
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    There is a unique difference between coming for the redeemed as opposed to coming to rule over the earth. Sure, the early church and for that matter, many believers throughout history have felt the Lord could come at any time to gather the redeemed. He does not come to the earth but we are gathered from the earth unto Him. And that is not the same as when He comes ** with ** the redeemed to physically set foot on the earth and establish the kingdom here on earth.

    And along with that, Yeshua (Jesus) Himself said in both Hosea 5:14-15 and Matthew 23:37-39 that He would return to His place because of Jacob/Israel's rejection and He would not return to the earth until they acknowledge that offense, turn to Him, and petition for His return. Something that has nothing to do with the redeemed bride of Messiah.

    And if we follow after what Yeshua said in Hosea, the time frame is given... 2000 years between the time He returned to His place to His coming to the earth again.

    Hosea 6:1-2 (NKJV) Come, and let us return to the Lord;
    For He has torn, but He will heal us;
    He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
    2 After two days He will revive us;
    On the third day He will raise us up,

    That we may live in His sight.

    And applying Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 following the Torah requirement of testimony of at least two witnesses as applied by the Bereans in Acts 17...

    2 Peter 3:8 (NKJV) But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    Psalms 90:4 (NKJV) For a thousand years in Your sight
    Are like yesterday when it is past,
    And like a watch in the night.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  15. summerville

    summerville Well-Known Member

    +404
    United States
    Anglican
    Single
    Hosea 5:14 is about Ephraim (Israel)
     
  16. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

    +435
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    Read all of it....

    Hosea 5:14-15 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
    And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
    I, even I, will tear them and go away;
    I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
    15 I will return again to My place
    Till they
    [both houses] acknowledge their offense.
    Then they will seek My face;
    In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me."

    That is ALL Jacob/Israel. Both houses. They were present in the Land when they rejected Yeshua.

    Eliminates the goofy ideas floating around that the Church is now Israel (Ephraim). The Church did not reject Yeshua so as to cause Him to return to His place.
     
  17. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

    +1,670
    Christian
    Married
    Jesus doesn't come at the end of the millennium.

    revelation 20:7-8 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.

    Jesus comes after satan's little season

    Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.


    Again peter compares and contrasts 2 sets of heaven and earth. 1 Before the flood and 1 after the flood. 1 where the kosmos is destroyed by the flood which was "existing (imperfect tense) long ago", 1 where the ungodly are destroyed by fire which now exists (present tense).

    2 Peter 3:5-7 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.


    Peter's use of language is consistent with OT parabolic language of judgment, several examples include

    Judgment againts Edom = literal, the heavens rotting = metaphorical

    Isaiah 34:3-5 Their slain shall be cast out,and the stench of their corpses shall rise;
    the mountains shall flow with their blood. All the host of heaven shall rot away,
    and the skies roll up like a scroll.All their host shall fall,as leaves fall from the vine,
    like leaves falling from the fig tree. For my sword has drunk its fill in the heavens;
    behold, it descends for judgment upon Edom,upon the people I have devoted to destruction.

    Judgment againts Babylon = literal, heavens trembling, earth shaken out of its place = metaphorical
    Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place,
    at the wrath of the LORD of hosts in the day of his fierce anger.

    Judgment against Ninevah = literal, hills melting, mountains quaking, earth heaving = metaphorical
    Nahum 1:1-5 an oracle concerning Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum of Elkosh. The LORD is a jealous and avenging God;the LORD is avenging and wrathful;the LORD takes vengeance on his adversaries and keeps wrath for his enemies. The LORD is slow to anger and great in power,
    and the LORD will by no means clear the guilty.His way is in whirlwind and storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. He rebukes the sea and makes it dry; he dries up all the rivers;Bashan and Carmel wither;the bloom of Lebanon withers. The mountains quake before him; the hills melt;
    the earth heaves before him,the world and all who dwell in it.


    Again you cannot provide and posts of mine where I go into detail about Titus. Interesting.......
     
  18. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

    +327
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Is there any Scripture that isn’t focused on the coming of Titus in AD70?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  19. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

    +1,670
    Christian
    Married
    Which part of post 322 focused on Titus?
     
  20. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,323
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Well, maybe they prefigure "the" Gog & Magog...

    but "the" Gog & Magog (Rev 20:7-9) appear after the Millennium... after the 10 horns... after Armageddon destroys Babylon... after the Crucifixion

    So no way could a people prominent in the "BC" era be the direct referent of Rev 20:7-9 >>1000 years after the "AD" era began



    again, just like John the Baptist warned, their was an "Apocalypse" coming to first century Judea... it arrived in 70 AD...

    it wiped out everybody but those who obeyed Jesus' command to flee Jerusalem:
    • Christians who fled to Pella --> modern Christianity
    • Johannan ben Zakkai who fled to Vespasian and acknowledged him his Messiah --> modern Rabbinical Judaism
    all other Jewish sects were wiped out of history (Sadducees, Essenes, Zealots)

    But the End Times of earth is not one single split-second event...

    Revelation is unambiguous that from Armageddon destroying Babylon (70 AD) to "fire from heaven" at the 2C for FJ... much more than 1000 years elapses
     
Loading...