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Featured Why hasn't Jesus come back yet?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by mindlight, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    After 2000 years why are we still waiting for the return of the King of Kings?

    It was a clear expectation of the early church that Jesus would return soon. Peter even made a special effort to debunk the intellectual pagans and false teachers of his time who suggested that this was a lie and that there would be no return. In 2 Peter 1:16-21 Peter used, as the basis of his refutation of this false accusation, the experience of James, John and Peter of the Transfiguration on the Holy Mountain (where the Messiah is expected to return). Because they had seen the glorified Christ they knew that He would one day return in that same glory as the King of Kings. No one on this earth had a comparable majesty , so only Jesus could be the King we waited for. The martyrs went to their deaths in the various persecutions of the Roman empire under Nero, Domitian and later Trajan and Marcus Aurelius singing the praises of this King and in the expectation that their King, the Returning King Jesus, would soon hold corrupt demonically inspired authorities to account and that the Emperor would get his comeuppance. But 2000 years later we are still waiting. It is the strongest prophecy of the Christian church, it is the overwhelming expectation of the church, ensuring that we live lives in expectation of our final review by the returning King. It is written into our creeds.

    "He will return in glory to judge the Living and the Dead and his Kingdom will have no end"

    But where is he, what possible reason could there be for keeping his bride waiting so long?
     
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  2. ReesePiece23

    ReesePiece23 The Peanut Buttery Member.

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    Two thousand years actually isn't very long, relatively speaking. Especially when you consider that the universe is nearly 15 billion years old, and that God was around even before time itself.

    I'm in no rush. I've only got about another sixty years before I 'transcend' anyway. I'll catch up with Him then.
     
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  3. Chris V++

    Chris V++ Socially Distancing Supporter

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    I've heard various preachers say it's because the gospel hasn't yet been preached around the globe. There are still 'people groups' that haven't been witnessed to.
     
  4. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    The contrast between the early churches urgent belief in an imminent return and your comfortable patience could not be more marked.
     
  5. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    I guess this depends on how you define people group. There is a Christian presence in every nation of the earth and all the major languages and cultures now have a witness to them. Given global interconnectivity and the free availability of the internet no one really has an excuse not to know about Jesus except perhaps for some obscure stone age tribes lost in some remote jungle.
     
  6. Chris V++

    Chris V++ Socially Distancing Supporter

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    I remember seeing a list shown in a service of the various groups and various languages without Bible translations. My impression was they were remote tribes like you mentioned but the number was over 100. Maybe 150? something like that. I often here charities on the radio raising money to translate and distribute bibles in lesser spoken languages.
     
  7. ReesePiece23

    ReesePiece23 The Peanut Buttery Member.

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    More than less everything I post is fundamentally flawed and ridiculous according to the members of this forum, it's nothing new. It doesn't change the fact that two thousand years is a relatively short space of time and that human's are impatient by design.
     
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  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's why many want to nuke the Middle East............. to speed the return of Jesus according to their twisted theology.
     
  9. Rebecca4Christ

    Rebecca4Christ Servant Supporter

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    2 Peter 3:9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

    James 5:7-11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    Exhortation
    7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until [a]it gets the early and late rains. 8 You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. 9 Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing [c]right at the [d]door. 10 As an example, brethren, of suffering and patience, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11 We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the [e]endurance of Job and have seen the [f]outcome of the Lord’s dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful.


    Early and late rains are Holy Spirit poured out....
    Also....God is outside of time.He works with chronos,the order of events. There is no set time,as we know it,but we are a key factor in the chronology. Just look at the mess the church is in.


    2 Thessalonians 2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    Man of Lawlessness
    2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the [a]coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a [c]message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the [d]apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above [e]every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His [f]coming; 9 that is, the one whose [g]coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and [h]signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God [j]will send upon them [k]a deluding influence so that they will believe [l]what is false, 12 in order that they all may be [m]judged who did not believe the truth, but [n]took pleasure in wickedness.


    The Apostasy has begun, and it is pretty easy to see the stage being set for anti christ as we speak....so it is really time to be watchful and ready! :prayer:
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  10. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    Not sure how nuking the place works though I suppose the elimination of Islam would allow Jews to rebuild the temple.
     
  11. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    Really though? Even the Western world despite its slide in recent years still has a vibrant Christian church. In Africa and Asia and Latin America the church is strong and growing. Not really dire times yet
     
  12. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    I guess the the best answer to that question is with another question: What is the condition that must be met for Yeshua to return?

    Hosea 5:14-15 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
    And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
    I, even I, will tear them and go away;
    I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
    15 I will return again to My place
    Till they acknowledge their offense.

    Then they will seek My face;
    In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me."

    Matthew 23:37-39 (NKJV) "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!'"

    So it was entire Jacob/Israel that caused Yeshua to return to His place due their rejection of Him. And it will take Israel being pushed to the wall and acknowledging that rejection, turning to Him, and calling for Him to come before He will.

    None of which has anything to do with the Bride, or Church. Apostasy or not. That could be a symptom of the times, but it has nothing to do with His return.

    And if we read immediately after the above in Hosea....

    Hosea 6:1-2 (NKJV) 1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
    For He has torn, but He will heal us;
    He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
    2 After two days He will revive us;
    On the third day He will raise us up,

    That we may live in His sight.

    Now it could be a stretch, but it also could be applicable the following:

    Psalms 90:4 (NKJV) For a thousand years in Your sight
    Are like yesterday when it is past,
    And like a watch in the night.

    2 Peter 3:8 (NKJV) But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    Maybe the answer has been sitting right under our noses all along and we never saw it. If the above verses do apply to Hosea, then it would seem we are bouncing right up against the time frame.
     
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  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Millions of Americans believe that Christ will not come again until Israel wipes out its competitors and there is widespread war in the Middle East. Some of these folks want to start a huge fire of war and death and destruction, so that Jesus comes quickly."

    Millions of Evangelical Christians Want to Start World War III … to Speed Up the Second Coming - Global Research
     
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  14. Rebecca4Christ

    Rebecca4Christ Servant Supporter

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    Many are leaving the truth for false doctrines.This is has been happening for years,but it is increasing quite rapidly now. You just need eyes to see and ears to hear.
    There is much churchianity,and much less true Christianity.Many of the once very popular "Teachers" have and are apostating in front of our eyes.Now teaching false doctrine,and straight up doctrine of demons in some cases.
    Another verse came to mind as I was writing,but forgotten before I was finished....

    As far as dire times....I don't find it dire,as we who are believers have and are being prepared.It all will unfold according to God's plan and purpose.BUT, it is wise to be ever watchful.

    2 Timothy 4:3
    For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
     
  15. Deep Truth

    Deep Truth New Member

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    Did you look in the scriptures to see when the 2,000 years began? There are several stories that reveal it began on Christ's resurrection. And if Jesus was resurrected in approximately 30 to 33 AD, that means 2,000 years will end in the 2030 to 2033 time-frame. Below is a list of several articles I wrote regarding a 2,000 gospel age that will be followed by the tribulation. The scriptures point out when the tribulation will be near, but not the day or hour when it will begin.

    Is the year when the tribulation ends written in scripture?
    Is the year when the tribulation ends written in scripture? Part 2

    Is the year when the tribulation ends written in scripture? Part 3
    Is the year when the tribulation ends written in scripture? Part 4
    Is the year when the tribulation ends written in scripture? Part 5

    Joseph in prison "two whole years" is prophetic for a 2,000 year gospel age

    4 Prophetic stories reveal a 2,000 year gospel age followed by the tribulation

    The Tabernacle reveals the age of the Law, the age of Grace and the Millennium
     
  16. ewq1938

    ewq1938 When something is "mind bottling" Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Because it is not yet time for Him to return. Paul told us what things must happen before He will return:

    2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    This is directly related to the Events of Revelation 11 and 13 ( the events of 13 are the beginning of the great trib and 11 is how it ends). This is when the falling away and the revealing of the man of sin will take place.
     
  17. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Well, up till the KJV, every English translation used "departure" in place of "falling away". Even the Latin Vulgate uses discessio, which is departure.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 (1599 Geneva Bible) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

    Since the context of 2 Thessalonians 2 centers around our "gathering unto the Lord", (verse 1) then it would seem that apostasia in the passage means a departure.

    That is the noun form of the word. The verb form, aphistemi, is used 15 times in the NT. Of all those, it has a physical departure or separation in view 13 times, not a spiritual departure.

    The only other use of apostasia is in Acts 21:21, where it specifically says what is being departed or separated from... the Torah / Moses. Even that is a physical distancing / departure from the Law, not a spiritual departure from the Lord. Without a specific subject of what is being departed from in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, the word simply stands on its own as departure.

    And the context is the gathering unto the Lord, this departure is amplified further along...

    2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 (NKJV) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

    The only thing that restrains evil is the Holy Spirit. And the HS indwells the believers. Therefore, if He is taken out of the way, that also means the vessels He resides in are taken out of the way also. He doesn't leave us stranded.

    So the passage is speaking of the departure or gathering unto the Lord, not a departure from the Lord.

    And in both verse 3 and in verse 8, this occurs before the man of sin / son of perdition is revealed. And he has to be revealed to confirm the covenant that Daniel 9:27 talks about, which is the trigger of the 70th week, or final 7 years. Where we would agree is that the literal Great Tribulation is the last half of that, the final 3.5 years.

    So no, it is not related to Revelation 11 or 13. More closely related to Revelation 4, when one takes several passages from Isaiah, Jeremiah, Zephaniah, etc. Pre 70th week before the one who confirms the covenant that starts the period. The son of perdition / man of sin / antichrist. The AOD event at the mid point of the 70th week is not the revealing of the Man of Sin, it is him finally setting himself up as God.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  18. ewq1938

    ewq1938 When something is "mind bottling" Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Greek scholars know the type of departing is to depart from ones beliefs not a physical departing.

    G646
    ἀποστασία
    apostasia
    ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
    Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.
    Total KJV occurrences: 2

    The only other use in the bible was people departing from the teachings of Moses. Neither use has anything to do with simply going somewhere physically.
     
  19. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    No, Greek scholars do not agree. A copy and paste from Strongs or whatever is only one man's idea of what the word means.

    Many top level Greek scholars hold the position and details I posted. Dr. Kenneth Wuest, premier 20th century Greek scholar who was chair of NT Greek at Moody Bible Institute for several decades. Dr. Andy Woods, president of Shafer Theological Seminary. Dr. Ken Johnson, eminent scholar on ancient and early church manuscripts. All of whom have written extensively on the 2 Thessalonians 2 passage.

    There have been many "falling aways" in history, yet the passage of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 has a definite article "the" that shows it is a unique event. And without a object in the verse to what is being departed from, there is no justification by any translator to show it is a departure from the Faith. Translated literally, it is simply "the departure".

    And the entire context of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9 is our gathering unto the Lord. The Thessalonians had been duped that the Day of the Lord had already begun via a false letter (verse 2). Paul had to remind them that "that day" would not come until "the departure" happens first.

    Pretty simple if one doesn't try to impose some preconceived idea on the text.

    If you had done your due diligence in studying G0646 out, you would find it comes from the root G0575 "apo" which has as a meaning "departure" as in a physical, spatial departure or distancing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  20. ewq1938

    ewq1938 When something is "mind bottling" Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    I'm not going to present the definition from every dictionary. The Strong's is correct. Here's Thayer's:

    G646
    ἀποστασία
    apostasia
    Thayer Definition:
    1) a falling away, defection, apostasy
    Part of Speech: noun feminine
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647
    Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

    This is the Greek version of the English "Apostasy" as in Apostate. Everyone knows what that means.
     
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