Not so! That is Full Preterism.
I didn't say that it was a natural body. I said that it is a physical body. Our new spiritual bodies are physical, just like Christ's was after the resurrection. Thomas was able to put his finger inside the nail prints in Jesus hands John 20:25-29. Jesus was able to have breakfast with the disciples in His resurrected body (Luke 24:42-43).
As I mentioned, the timing and details of that "future to us" event have not been revealed to men. (Deuteronomy 29:29)Give me Scripture that tells us what happens at the "Final Consummation"?
As I mentioned, the timing and details of that "future to us" event have not been revealed to men. (Deuteronomy 29:29)
As I mentioned, the timing and details of that "future to us" event have not been revealed to men. (Deuteronomy 29:29)
I'm open to that interpretation, though I'm not sure. Is Jesus the Lord of the vineyard or his son?You're close.
Vs 40-43 says the transfer of the kingdom is completed "when the Lord of the Vineyard Comes" and "destroys those wicked men miserably".
This happened in 66-70 AD, when Jesus, the Chief Cornerstone, Lord of the Vineyard, Came to them in Judgment and was the stone that ground them to powder, removing the kingdom from them forever.
Powerful & pertinent verse!You're close.
Vs 40-43 says the transfer of the kingdom is completed "when the Lord of the Vineyard Comes" and "destroys those wicked men miserably".
This happened in 66-70 AD, when Jesus, the Chief Cornerstone, Lord of the Vineyard, Came to them in Judgment and was the stone that ground them to powder, removing the kingdom from them forever.
Please acknowledge, that Final Judgement (Rev 20:10) will not include either Jesus Christ or His martyred millennial saints (Rev 20:1-6), all of whom (will) have already been Resurrected, thousand(s) of year(s) prior?Then stop avoiding these simple questions:
- Is there an individual day in the future when all the dead will rise together from the dead to meet Christ at His glorious climactic return?
- Do you believe the Bible teaches a literal physical future coming of Christ?
1 Th 4 = Rev 20:9 = Final JudgementNot so! That is Full Preterism. Paul was not like you, fixated with the coming of Titus and AD70. Paul was teaching about the physical resurrection when Jesus comes at the end.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
There is nothing to rebut here. There is no evidence. This is all typical Preterist opinion, conjecture and speculationalism.
Please answer the question: Can you give me Scripture that tells us what happens at the "Final Consummation"?
You repeatedly and obsessively locate every single eschatological passage in AD70. Yet, when I ask you to furnish me with Scripture of a literal physical future return of Christ you have nothing. You are silent. This is classic Full Preterism. Also, teh fact you identify yourself as parousia70 is a testimony to where your heart is.
Can you please list all the main differences between your view and Full Preterism? I do not see any.
I have highlighted your obsession with the coming of Titus and AD70 in nearly every response to you, but your fixation with that causes you to dismiss it. AD70 is all you want to talk about. I see no interest in talking about Christ's sinless life, atoning death, victorious resurrection or His glorious return future glorious return? Why not? That is not what interest you here.
Thayer's lexicon does not support Full Prerterism in any way.
Stop deliberately distorting the meaning of the word gē. We are exclusively talking about references to the physical earth.
Full Preterism wants to spiritualize the whole Bible away as if nothing is literal, means anything or is absolute. It is wicked, evil and antichrist.
After 2000 years why are we still waiting for the return of the King of Kings?
It was a clear expectation of the early church that Jesus would return soon. Peter even made a special effort to debunk the intellectual pagans and false teachers of his time who suggested that this was a lie and that there would be no return. In 2 Peter 1:16-21 Peter used, as the basis of his refutation of this false accusation, the experience of James, John and Peter of the Transfiguration on the Holy Mountain (where the Messiah is expected to return). Because they had seen the glorified Christ they knew that He would one day return in that same glory as the King of Kings. No one on this earth had a comparable majesty , so only Jesus could be the King we waited for. The martyrs went to their deaths in the various persecutions of the Roman empire under Nero, Domitian and later Trajan and Marcus Aurelius singing the praises of this King and in the expectation that their King, the Returning King Jesus, would soon hold corrupt demonically inspired authorities to account and that the Emperor would get his comeuppance. But 2000 years later we are still waiting. It is the strongest prophecy of the Christian church, it is the overwhelming expectation of the church, ensuring that we live lives in expectation of our final review by the returning King. It is written into our creeds.
"He will return in glory to judge the Living and the Dead and his Kingdom will have no end"
But where is he, what possible reason could there be for keeping his bride waiting so long?
After 2000 years why are we still waiting for the return of the King of Kings?
It was a clear expectation of the early church that Jesus would return soon. Peter even made a special effort to debunk the intellectual pagans and false teachers of his time who suggested that this was a lie and that there would be no return. In 2 Peter 1:16-21 Peter used, as the basis of his refutation of this false accusation, the experience of James, John and Peter of the Transfiguration on the Holy Mountain (where the Messiah is expected to return). Because they had seen the glorified Christ they knew that He would one day return in that same glory as the King of Kings. No one on this earth had a comparable majesty , so only Jesus could be the King we waited for. The martyrs went to their deaths in the various persecutions of the Roman empire under Nero, Domitian and later Trajan and Marcus Aurelius singing the praises of this King and in the expectation that their King, the Returning King Jesus, would soon hold corrupt demonically inspired authorities to account and that the Emperor would get his comeuppance. But 2000 years later we are still waiting. It is the strongest prophecy of the Christian church, it is the overwhelming expectation of the church, ensuring that we live lives in expectation of our final review by the returning King. It is written into our creeds.
"He will return in glory to judge the Living and the Dead and his Kingdom will have no end"
But where is he, what possible reason could there be for keeping his bride waiting so long?
"Millions of Americans believe that Christ will not come again until Israel wipes out its competitors and there is widespread war in the Middle East. Some of these folks want to start a huge fire of war and death and destruction, so that Jesus comes quickly."
Millions of Evangelical Christians Want to Start World War III … to Speed Up the Second Coming - Global Research
My advise is to reread the Scriptures to see that you are wrong in your assessment of the Second Coming.I wonder the same thing every day. How much more worse can civilization get? Thus I have conjured that the 2nd coming is not a physical one but rather a spiritual one. The fact is human beings live in natural tension. I don't see any one of us in the world having some kind of epiphany & we will sing kumbaya. But this I know our time on earth is measured & at some point we will all flee home.
Not so! That is Full Preterism. Paul was not like you, fixated with the coming of Titus and AD70. Paul was teaching about the physical resurrection when Jesus comes at the end.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
There is nothing to rebut here. There is no evidence. This is all typical Preterist opinion, conjecture and speculationalism.
My advise is to reread the Scriptures to see that you are wrong in your assessment of the Second Coming.
See II Timothy 3 on the evilness of the days in the end times.Read Luke 18:8 to find that things will be so terrible wrong on the earth that Jesus leaves us wondering if there will even be faith left in anyone on the earth.II Peter 3 records the that scoffers will come scoffing doubting God's Word about His Coming.
It was 4000 years, Biblically, from the time of the promise of a Messiah to save people from their sins until that promise was fulfilled in Christ's birth. Abraham's wait for his promised son was long and it filled him with doubt at times...review his life and see if you are not acting out Abraham like doubt.
Stay in the Word...don't make up your own solution or remedy for answer to a long wait.
I asked if you could provide any specifics from any of my posts where I went into detail about Titus' coming to destroy Jerusalem. You didn't, and it appears you can't as evidenced by your non-response.
I absolutely agree.
'ge' means more than just the whole earth/world/globe. If it didn't than you would be correct that I was distorting its meaning.
Per Strong's:
the earth, soil, land, region, country, inhabitants of a region.
country, ground, land, world.
It is clear that Peter differentiates between the heavens and earth prior to the flood, and the one he was presently living in. He mentions 2 sets of Heaven and earth, 1 before the flood and 1 after the flood.
I asked if you could provide any specifics from any of my posts where I went into detail about Titus' coming to destroy Jerusalem. You didn't, and it appears you can't as evidenced by your non-response.
I absolutely agree.
'ge' means more than just the whole earth/world/globe. If it didn't than you would be correct that I was distorting its meaning.
Per Strong's:
the earth, soil, land, region, country, inhabitants of a region.
country, ground, land, world.
It is clear that Peter differentiates between the heavens and earth prior to the flood, and the one he was presently living in. He mentions 2 sets of Heaven and earth, 1 before the flood and 1 after the flood.
2 Peter 3:5-7 But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world of that time perished in the flood. And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
Contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application) -- country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.
Since you have been calling me a full preterist this whole time, even though I am not, and I believe the coming of Christ in judgment on Israel in 66-70ad prefigures a future greater coming and judgment, you appear to be calling me an antichrist.
Please be careful with the flaming language, as it is against forum rules.
If you cannot address me in a respectful manner, maybe take a minute to cool down before responding or just ignore me.