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Why do creationists insist that the theory of evolution is inherently atheistic?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by verysincere, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. RickG

    RickG Senior Veteran Supporter

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    Only Satan is not is not a God and should be incapable of "creating" such physical deception. And if he could, why would God allow it remain there throughout eternity?

    Thank you for a well thought out and well expressed post. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2013
  2. KWCrazy

    KWCrazy Newbie

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    You're operating unde rthe false presumption that God can no longer be experienced, that there is no indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that nobody has ever sexperienced the presence of God or a true miracle since the death of Christ. In other words, ignorance.
     
  3. KWCrazy

    KWCrazy Newbie

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    I'm glad I never attended a church in which false teachers taught doctrine that was contrary to the Scriptures.
     
  4. KWCrazy

    KWCrazy Newbie

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    Believing that an omnipotent could not create a man if He wanted a man, a whale if He wanted a whale and a tree if He wanted a tree is pure ignorance. The creation of a mature planet does not imply age. The demand for age implies lack of faith.
     
  5. Mr Strawberry

    Mr Strawberry Newbie

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    Equally, I can affirm that everything you misinterpret as experiencing God has a perfectly Earthbound and human explanation and that your willingness to jump to unwarranted spiritual conclusions as an explanation for everything from your feelings to perceived miracles saves you doing any real thinking and from learning what is really happening.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  6. KWCrazy

    KWCrazy Newbie

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    Here's seven.
    You don't know for a fact what is true because you weren't there. Any scientist who claims to know how the universe originated is a liar. There are NO valid laws of physics which would allow for the spontaneous autogeneration of the universe. The question is, do you put your faith in the rocks ot the one who made them? Evolution is a lie. Those who tell lies are liars. See, I can say it too.
    If you ever discover God, you'll know that He isn't a liar.
    So states a person whose entire belief structure is based on a lie.
    Since the origination of the universe is scientifically impossible, either you believe in the impossible; which makes you foolish; or you accept that there could be some creative force outside of the universe.
    Your statement is false. Had you experience the Holy Spirit you could not say that it isn't true without admitting that you were incredible foolish to not believe in something AFTER he sees it. No offense, but that's probably the dumbest thing I've ever read. You experienced the Holy Spirit and it MIGHT BE REAL? :D
    How about the vast number of encounters by non-believers and atheists? Are they all liars?
    How could you, if it didn't exist and didn't happen? Were you taking mushrooms at the time? You aren't making sense. How does one deny that which he's experinced?
    Demon possession is characterized by three things:
    Knowledge the person could not possess
    Strength beyond thei physical size
    A complete physical revulsion to anything Holy.

    In most cases, a person is not recognized as being possessed unless they can speak in a foreign tongue they have never learned. Otherwise it's considered just mental illness. There IS a difference. Demonis possession is rare. Demonic INFLUENCE is much more common.
     
  7. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

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    I'm glad I was never hit by a car.

    Sorry, I thought we were having a random "say what you're glad for" moment here.
     
  8. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

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    God could do all those things if He wanted to deceive. God could be deceptive if He so chose -- why you would demand He be so is something of a puzzle.
     
  9. KWCrazy

    KWCrazy Newbie

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    I'm glad you weren't also. You have a good mind. I wish you'd spend some time in the Scriptures actively seeking the truth. I think that once you found it that your entire world would be blessed.
     
  10. Mr Strawberry

    Mr Strawberry Newbie

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    I agree.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  11. Mr Strawberry

    Mr Strawberry Newbie

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    By the time I'd got down to number 6 on that list I'd already chuckled at "Jeffry R. Palmer makes a lot of predictions, some of which come true, and some of which do not" and groaned at "psychic twins predict 9/11", and I was just saying to myself "they'd have a field day with Nostradamus" when who should pop up as number 7 along with a photo of Hister, I mean Hitler, but Nostradamus himself. I have to admit I enjoyed that.
     
  12. KWCrazy

    KWCrazy Newbie

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    Deceive? He DID tell us exactly how He did it, it what order and in what time period. If he wanted to deceive He would not have given any specifics. It's a question of faith. Do you have faith in God's word or not? Obviously you do not. Others do. It's that simple.
     
  13. RickG

    RickG Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Then where in Genesis does it describe the geologic column and fossil record if he tells us "exactly" how it happened?
     
  14. TheReasoner

    TheReasoner Former christian, current teapot agnostic.

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    Thankfully someone already commented on those.
    If you think you have some, run them by here:
    Randi $1,000,000 paranormal challenge - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
    If you're right you'll be quite a bit richer. However, there are NO supernaturalist claims that have been proven to be what the supernaturalists claim. Everything that has been tested has been refuted. And groan-inducing brain numbing nonsense will not change that.

    First off: We don't know how the universe started so we aren't saying it started this way or that. Your accusation here is what we call bearing false witness - breaking the ninth commandment. Also, it's a straw man argument. Second: You also claim evolution is a lie, yet it is extremely well supported. And it is used quite actively in a plethora of industries and scientific fields. None of that would be possible if the theory was "a lie". And you know what? I will believe what I can test -and in some cases have tested (and found consistent) in my lab over the word of some guy who can't even keep the ninth commandment of his supposed god.

    The question is not whether I put my faith in the rocks or their maker. But, if I were a believer, whether I would believe YOU or God's creation itself as well as the majority of theologians throughout the ages. Or, as I am not a believer, whether I believe that repeated independent and very heavily tested research consistently lies, i.e. that there is a global scientific conspiracy - which is basically a requirement for your claims - or whether I am sane.
    I'm quite sane, thanks.
    So why does your belief insist he is, one way or another? Some people have spoken on length on this. If you are right in your characterization of christianity then the faith is a lie. It's that simple. That's what the data shows. Your faith is falsified. Question is if you're man enough to realize you've read the bible wrong or even reject god altogether. But your belief, given that it rests on the existence of a global scientific conspiracy which I would be a part of, is false.

    That is your attempt at a riposte? Again, why does your belief require the universe itself to be untrue? You are, as others have pointed out, blaspheming. Unlike you, who deny empirical evidence as it suits you to do so, I actually accept what the data suggests. And for that you claim my belief structure is based on a lie? Which lie would that be? Can you show me perhaps? If you were right on evolution and cosmology you should be able to show this and win yourself a swath of nobel prizes. Have a go, why don't you?
    You know, I thought Christians were supposed to be decent, honest, truth seeking and good. Yet here you break the ninth commandment again. You cast judgement while you have obviously no idea what you're talking about.

    Oh sure. I've fallen over. Spoken in toungues, prophesied, the whole sehebang.

    The same exact results can be provoked with chemistry, hypnosis and a strong mind bent on achieving it. Nothing special about it. Feels good, but that does not prove anything. The same behavior can be seen in amazonian tribes. In voodoo practitioners, in a plethora of religious groups around the world. The mechanism is likely the same.

    Why I would say it "might be real" and not "is real" is in part what I just said, that the same happens without any spiritual component. And of course in addition people like you. Who boldly make unsubstantiated claims on issues like science. Many of which are dead wrong. You are telling us that your faith is nonsense. How? By insisting that things you don't even know what are or entail are lies. That is not only stupid, it is criminally dishonest.
    And when you so easily spread lies about this, why should I believe you on other areas, especially when it appears what you attribute to the holy spirit may very well be pure psychology? You've already shot your credibility to heck, so why should people believe you on this when it seems you might be wrong there too?

    You make statements which are known to be untrue and you place these as the cornerstones of the christian faith, mocking those who disagree. Even though all the evidence contradicts your view on cosmology and evolution.

    Vast numbers? *chuckle* Some, you mean. Inflated by supernaturalists who want it to be true. No, they are not liars. Nor are you when you speak of what you've experienced. You're just unlikely to be connecting it to the right cause. People used to attribute comets to god or gods, laughing at or possibly killing I would guess people who disagreed with the conclusion. That someone says "god did this!" does not mean it is correct. Consider yourself, you call things you have no idea what is a "lie".

    I have never taken any illegal substance. I like my brain and other organs in working order. If I do not make any sense, let me rephrase. I have been present at exorcisms. Something happened, sure. A man with psychological issues was calmed down and got through a serious episode. This was attributed to a demon, and his betterment attributed to it being driven out. When it came back the process was repeated. He SHOULD have been sent to a mental hospital.

    I am aware. I witnessed the "exorcism", and points 2 and 3 did appear to manifest. Sorry, but this could easily be characterized by psychological illness.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  15. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Genesis isn't a set of blueprints that exact.

    And I think you already know why there wasn't any fossils.
     
  16. Mr Strawberry

    Mr Strawberry Newbie

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    You don't mean it's more allegorical than exact do you?
     
  17. MrsLurking

    MrsLurking Retired Biblical scholar; Verysincere's wife.

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    Well said!

    Yes, the claim via the "embedded age" theory that God is a prankster at best and a manipulative deceiver at worst is not in harmony with the YHWH of the Bible. It well illustrates the risks of TRADITION becoming more important in the Church than what the Bible actually states.
     
  18. RickG

    RickG Senior Veteran Supporter

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    That was the point I was making. KWC said it was explained "exactly".

    No, I don't believe God was a deceiver.
     
  19. mathetes123

    mathetes123 Newbie

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    The Bible actually states the creationist position.
     
  20. RickG

    RickG Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The more literalist they try to explain literalism the more non literal they get.
     
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