Why do creationists insist that the theory of evolution is inherently atheistic?

RickG

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Embedded age is a theory that equates in my opinion to <edit>the greatest denial of Biblical authority.

Here is why. Our God is Truth, and he tells us not to bear false witness.

The theory of embedded age postulates a god of deception; one who deliberately plants false evidence in his creation, to bear false witness against the age of the earth, inter alia, in order to intentionally mislead the people who find that evidence.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

The only god who could do it is the prince of this world; satan, because he is a liar and the father of all lies. Embedded age is deception, aka a lie, and therefore can only be the product of satan. It cannot under any circumstances whatever be the product of the Living God, who is Truth. He could not do this, and he would not want to even if he could; he is not a liar.
Only Satan is not is not a God and should be incapable of "creating" such physical deception. And if he could, why would God allow it remain there throughout eternity?

Therefore, either the world correctly attests to its own age, or else the world attests to the deceptions of satan; its creator. But to regard the world as created by a liar; with lies contained in it, would deny Genesis, which says that God created the world.

If God created the world, then there can be no false witness contained within it; no embedded age. If there is embedded age, then the world is necessarily the creation of satan.

Therefore, embedded age is the single greatest denial of Genesis, and of God's sovereignty, ever known.

Your choice.
Thank you for a well thought out and well expressed post. :)
 
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KWCrazy

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Of course, the reciprocal of your otherworldly threat is the very real tragedy of you wasting your finite existence trying to uphold the delusions of people long dead who were wrong.
You're operating unde rthe false presumption that God can no longer be experienced, that there is no indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that nobody has ever sexperienced the presence of God or a true miracle since the death of Christ. In other words, ignorance.
 
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KWCrazy

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Nothing in Genesis states that creation was created in some sort of "mature state" with billions of years of embedded age already present. No "false history" is mentioned.
I'm glad I never attended a church in which false teachers taught doctrine that was contrary to the Scriptures.
 
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KWCrazy

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Maturity without history is an illusion.
Believing that an omnipotent could not create a man if He wanted a man, a whale if He wanted a whale and a tree if He wanted a tree is pure ignorance. The creation of a mature planet does not imply age. The demand for age implies lack of faith.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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You're operating unde rthe false presumption that God can no longer be experienced, that there is no indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that nobody has ever sexperienced the presence of God or a true miracle since the death of Christ. In other words, ignorance.

Equally, I can affirm that everything you misinterpret as experiencing God has a perfectly Earthbound and human explanation and that your willingness to jump to unwarranted spiritual conclusions as an explanation for everything from your feelings to perceived miracles saves you doing any real thinking and from learning what is really happening.
 
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KWCrazy

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Can you show one example where supernaturalists have been right in their predictions? ONE testable example? Just one?
Here's seven.
Only thing is, you appear to claim that's when things started. We know for a fact that is not true. So we have a case here where you and your brethren actively preach a known falsehood
You don't know for a fact what is true because you weren't there. Any scientist who claims to know how the universe originated is a liar. There are NO valid laws of physics which would allow for the spontaneous autogeneration of the universe. The question is, do you put your faith in the rocks ot the one who made them? Evolution is a lie. Those who tell lies are liars. See, I can say it too.
I wonder why you believe as you do.
If you ever discover God, you'll know that He isn't a liar.
you have to violate your own belief in order to believe what you do; You guys violate the ninth commandment unbelievably often.
So states a person whose entire belief structure is based on a lie.
You cannot show neither through reason nor through empirical data that the existence of a god is likely.
Since the origination of the universe is scientifically impossible, either you believe in the impossible; which makes you foolish; or you accept that there could be some creative force outside of the universe.
No. I have experienced that holy spirit jazz, and while it is possible that the holy spirit is real and powerful and so on. It is not the most likely explanation.
Your statement is false. Had you experience the Holy Spirit you could not say that it isn't true without admitting that you were incredible foolish to not believe in something AFTER he sees it. No offense, but that's probably the dumbest thing I've ever read. You experienced the Holy Spirit and it MIGHT BE REAL? :D
It is possible, and indeed it is regularly done, to put oneself into a trance by way of will or a plethora or arbitrary rituals
How about the vast number of encounters by non-believers and atheists? Are they all liars?
Again, no. Been there also. Seen demon possessed people rock back and fprth and spew foam and so on and so forth.
How could you, if it didn't exist and didn't happen? Were you taking mushrooms at the time? You aren't making sense. How does one deny that which he's experinced?
Of course said "demon possessed" personages were also survivors of severe abuse and trauma; They were really deeply scarred psychologically. So; More likely explanations exist than demons and trolls.
Demon possession is characterized by three things:
Knowledge the person could not possess
Strength beyond thei physical size
A complete physical revulsion to anything Holy.

In most cases, a person is not recognized as being possessed unless they can speak in a foreign tongue they have never learned. Otherwise it's considered just mental illness. There IS a difference. Demonis possession is rare. Demonic INFLUENCE is much more common.
 
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TLK Valentine

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I'm glad I never attended a church in which false teachers taught doctrine that was contrary to the Scriptures.

I'm glad I was never hit by a car.

Sorry, I thought we were having a random "say what you're glad for" moment here.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Believing that an omnipotent could not create a man if He wanted a man, a whale if He wanted a whale and a tree if He wanted a tree is pure ignorance.

God could do all those things if He wanted to deceive. God could be deceptive if He so chose -- why you would demand He be so is something of a puzzle.
 
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KWCrazy

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I'm glad I was never hit by a car.
I'm glad you weren't also. You have a good mind. I wish you'd spend some time in the Scriptures actively seeking the truth. I think that once you found it that your entire world would be blessed.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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By the time I'd got down to number 6 on that list I'd already chuckled at "Jeffry R. Palmer makes a lot of predictions, some of which come true, and some of which do not" and groaned at "psychic twins predict 9/11", and I was just saying to myself "they'd have a field day with Nostradamus" when who should pop up as number 7 along with a photo of Hister, I mean Hitler, but Nostradamus himself. I have to admit I enjoyed that.
 
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KWCrazy

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God could do all those things if He wanted to deceive.
Deceive? He DID tell us exactly how He did it, it what order and in what time period. If he wanted to deceive He would not have given any specifics. It's a question of faith. Do you have faith in God's word or not? Obviously you do not. Others do. It's that simple.
 
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RickG

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Deceive? He DID tell us exactly how He did it, it what order and in what time period. If he wanted to deceive He would not have given any specifics. It's a question of faith. Do you have faith in God's word or not? Obviously you do not. Others do. It's that simple.

Then where in Genesis does it describe the geologic column and fossil record if he tells us "exactly" how it happened?
 
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TheReasoner

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Thankfully someone already commented on those.
If you think you have some, run them by here:
Randi $1,000,000 paranormal challenge - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
If you're right you'll be quite a bit richer. However, there are NO supernaturalist claims that have been proven to be what the supernaturalists claim. Everything that has been tested has been refuted. And groan-inducing brain numbing nonsense will not change that.

You don't know for a fact what is true because you weren't there. Any scientist who claims to know how the universe originated is a liar. There are NO valid laws of physics which would allow for the spontaneous autogeneration of the universe. The question is, do you put your faith in the rocks ot the one who made them? Evolution is a lie. Those who tell lies are liars. See, I can say it too.

First off: We don't know how the universe started so we aren't saying it started this way or that. Your accusation here is what we call bearing false witness - breaking the ninth commandment. Also, it's a straw man argument. Second: You also claim evolution is a lie, yet it is extremely well supported. And it is used quite actively in a plethora of industries and scientific fields. None of that would be possible if the theory was "a lie". And you know what? I will believe what I can test -and in some cases have tested (and found consistent) in my lab over the word of some guy who can't even keep the ninth commandment of his supposed god.

The question is not whether I put my faith in the rocks or their maker. But, if I were a believer, whether I would believe YOU or God's creation itself as well as the majority of theologians throughout the ages. Or, as I am not a believer, whether I believe that repeated independent and very heavily tested research consistently lies, i.e. that there is a global scientific conspiracy - which is basically a requirement for your claims - or whether I am sane.
I'm quite sane, thanks.
If you ever discover God, you'll know that He isn't a liar.
So why does your belief insist he is, one way or another? Some people have spoken on length on this. If you are right in your characterization of christianity then the faith is a lie. It's that simple. That's what the data shows. Your faith is falsified. Question is if you're man enough to realize you've read the bible wrong or even reject god altogether. But your belief, given that it rests on the existence of a global scientific conspiracy which I would be a part of, is false.

So states a person whose entire belief structure is based on a lie.
That is your attempt at a riposte? Again, why does your belief require the universe itself to be untrue? You are, as others have pointed out, blaspheming. Unlike you, who deny empirical evidence as it suits you to do so, I actually accept what the data suggests. And for that you claim my belief structure is based on a lie? Which lie would that be? Can you show me perhaps? If you were right on evolution and cosmology you should be able to show this and win yourself a swath of nobel prizes. Have a go, why don't you?
Since the origination of the universe is scientifically impossible, either you believe in the impossible; which makes you foolish; or you accept that there could be some creative force outside of the universe.
You know, I thought Christians were supposed to be decent, honest, truth seeking and good. Yet here you break the ninth commandment again. You cast judgement while you have obviously no idea what you're talking about.

Your statement is false. Had you experience the Holy Spirit you could not say that it isn't true without admitting that you were incredible foolish to not believe in something AFTER he sees it. No offense, but that's probably the dumbest thing I've ever read. You experienced the Holy Spirit and it MIGHT BE REAL? :D
Oh sure. I've fallen over. Spoken in toungues, prophesied, the whole sehebang.

The same exact results can be provoked with chemistry, hypnosis and a strong mind bent on achieving it. Nothing special about it. Feels good, but that does not prove anything. The same behavior can be seen in amazonian tribes. In voodoo practitioners, in a plethora of religious groups around the world. The mechanism is likely the same.

Why I would say it "might be real" and not "is real" is in part what I just said, that the same happens without any spiritual component. And of course in addition people like you. Who boldly make unsubstantiated claims on issues like science. Many of which are dead wrong. You are telling us that your faith is nonsense. How? By insisting that things you don't even know what are or entail are lies. That is not only stupid, it is criminally dishonest.
And when you so easily spread lies about this, why should I believe you on other areas, especially when it appears what you attribute to the holy spirit may very well be pure psychology? You've already shot your credibility to heck, so why should people believe you on this when it seems you might be wrong there too?

You make statements which are known to be untrue and you place these as the cornerstones of the christian faith, mocking those who disagree. Even though all the evidence contradicts your view on cosmology and evolution.

How about the vast number of encounters by non-believers and atheists? Are they all liars?

Vast numbers? *chuckle* Some, you mean. Inflated by supernaturalists who want it to be true. No, they are not liars. Nor are you when you speak of what you've experienced. You're just unlikely to be connecting it to the right cause. People used to attribute comets to god or gods, laughing at or possibly killing I would guess people who disagreed with the conclusion. That someone says "god did this!" does not mean it is correct. Consider yourself, you call things you have no idea what is a "lie".

How could you, if it didn't exist and didn't happen? Were you taking mushrooms at the time? You aren't making sense. How does one deny that which he's experinced?
I have never taken any illegal substance. I like my brain and other organs in working order. If I do not make any sense, let me rephrase. I have been present at exorcisms. Something happened, sure. A man with psychological issues was calmed down and got through a serious episode. This was attributed to a demon, and his betterment attributed to it being driven out. When it came back the process was repeated. He SHOULD have been sent to a mental hospital.

Demon possession is characterized by three things:
Knowledge the person could not possess
Strength beyond thei physical size
A complete physical revulsion to anything Holy.

In most cases, a person is not recognized as being possessed unless they can speak in a foreign tongue they have never learned. Otherwise it's considered just mental illness. There IS a difference. Demonis possession is rare. Demonic INFLUENCE is much more common.
I am aware. I witnessed the "exorcism", and points 2 and 3 did appear to manifest. Sorry, but this could easily be characterized by psychological illness.
 
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AV1611VET

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Then where in Genesis does it describe the geologic column and fossil record if he tells us "exactly" how it happened?
Genesis isn't a set of blueprints that exact.

And I think you already know why there wasn't any fossils.
 
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MrsLurking

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Embedded age is a theory that equates in my opinion to satan worship, and the greatest denial of Biblical authority.

Here is why. Our God is Truth, and he tells us not to bear false witness.

The theory of embedded age postulates a god of deception; one who deliberately plants false evidence in his creation, to bear false witness against the age of the earth, inter alia, in order to intentionally mislead the people who find that evidence.

The only god who could do it is the prince of this world; satan, because he is a liar and the father of all lies. Embedded age is deception, aka a lie, and therefore can only be the product of satan. It cannot under any circumstances whatever be the product of the Living God, who is Truth. He could not do this, and he would not want to even if he could; he is not a liar.

Therefore, either the world correctly attests to its own age, or else the world attests to the deceptions of satan; its creator. But to regard the world as created by a liar; with lies contained in it, would deny Genesis, which says that God created the world.

If God created the world, then there can be no false witness contained within it; no embedded age. If there is embedded age, then the world is necessarily the creation of satan.

Therefore, embedded age is the single greatest denial of Genesis, and of God's sovereignty, ever known.

Your choice.

Well said!

Yes, the claim via the "embedded age" theory that God is a prankster at best and a manipulative deceiver at worst is not in harmony with the YHWH of the Bible. It well illustrates the risks of TRADITION becoming more important in the Church than what the Bible actually states.
 
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RickG

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Genesis isn't a set of blueprints that exact.

That was the point I was making. KWC said it was explained "exactly".

And I think you already know why there wasn't any fossils.

No, I don't believe God was a deceiver.
 
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mathetes123

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Well said!

Yes, the claim via the "embedded age" theory that God is a prankster at best and a manipulative deceiver at worst is not in harmony with the YHWH of the Bible. It well illustrates the risks of TRADITION becoming more important in the Church than what the Bible actually states.

The Bible actually states the creationist position.
 
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