According to the theory of evolution, how scientifically inaccurate is this Christian sweatshirt?

[David Lamb]

It came down to genetics. And the Human Genome Project decisively shows that the views of YECs like Henry Morris were wrong; there are no biological human races.

Sorry, are you saying that Henry Morris and young earth creationists in general believe that there are biological human races? I cannot find a Morris quote on races, but the Answers in Genesis website has an article entitled, "How Many Races Did God Create?" which includes these words: "God's Word settles this issue. There is only one race of people. This is clear from the history found in Genesis."

 

[trophy33]

There is only one race of people. This is clear from the history found in Genesis."

How is it clear from the "history" found in Genesis?

 

[David Lamb]

How is it clear from the "history" found in Genesis?

Sorry, but I wasn't arguing for or against what is found in Genesis. My post was in answer to The Barbarian, who seems to think that young earth creationists believe in biological human races.

 

[trophy33]

Sorry, but I wasn't arguing for or against what is found in Genesis. My post was in answer to The Barbarian, who seems to think that young earth creationists believe in biological human races.

OK, I will put it to the drawer with the name "the YEC logical fallacies", to the other ones.

 

[Ophiolite]

OK, I will put it to the drawer with the name "the YEC logical fallacies", to the other ones.

Is there a missing "next" in that? Otherwise it doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[trophy33]

Is there a missing "next" in that? Otherwise it doesn't seem to make sense.

I am not sure, the sentence seems weird to me, too.

 

[The Barbarian]

Sorry, are you saying that Henry Morris and young earth creationists in general believe that there are biological human races?

No. Many, if not most YECs now reject the racist foundations of young Earth creationism.

I cannot find a Morris quote on races,

Often the Hamites, especially the Negroes, have become actual personal servants or even slaves to the others. Possessed of a genetic character concerned mainly with mundane matters, they were eventually displaced by the intellectual and philosophical acumen of the Japhethites and the religious zeal of the Semites.”
Henry Morris The Beginning of the World

the Answers in Genesis website has an article entitled, "How Many Races Did God Create?" which includes these words: "God's Word settles this issue. There is only one race of people. This is clear from the history found in Genesis."

Yes. AiG has also now admitted a limited amount of macroevolutionary change, including new species, genera,and sometimes families. They just don't want to call it "evolution." So there's been some progress over the decades. YEC has um.. evolved over time.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry, are you saying that Henry Morris and young earth creationists in general believe that there are biological human races? I cannot find a Morris quote on races, but the Answers in Genesis website has an article entitled, "How Many Races Did God Create?" which includes these words: "God's Word settles this issue. There is only one race of people. This is clear from the history found in Genesis."

These guys are stuck on Henry Morris for some reason.

And not one of them will give me a name from their camp.

Which, of course, I expected.

 

[The Barbarian]

It took science over 200 years to correct their mistake?

Some scientists like Agassiz opposed Darwin's idea that all humans were essentially the same. As we discussed, Darwin angered people when he said that if "savages" were brought to England, in a few generations, they'd be just like Englishmen. He was right. It took a while to clear out prejudices.

 

[Ophiolite]

Some scientists like Agassiz opposed Darwin's idea that all humans were essentially the same. As we discussed, Darwin angered people when he said that if "savages" were brought to England, in a few generations, they'd be just like Englishmen. He was right. It took a while to clear out prejudices.

It generally overlooked that Darwin's extended family and immediate forebears were very active in the Abolotionist movement. Darwin was appalled by the treatement of slaves in South America, which he witnessed during his voyage on the Beagle.

It is interesting that the reverse transition from Englishman to savage does not need even a single generation given the right (i.e. wrong) circumstances.

 

[The Barbarian]

These guys are stuck on Henry Morris for some reason.

Morris was just careless enough to say it outright. And yes, there were evangelicals who weren't racists, even decades ago:

William Franklin Graham Jr. did the unthinkable at the 1952 Jackson, Mississippi crusade when he removed the red segregation rope that separated black and white worshippers.

Billy Graham did the unthinkable and removed the Segregation Rope

www.nobts.edu

How could he do that? Well, he wasn't a YEC, so he had no assumptions about races:

I don’t think that there’s any conflict at all between science today and the Scriptures. I think that we have misinterpreted the Scriptures many times and we’ve tried to make the Scriptures say things they weren’t meant to say. I think that we have made a mistake by thinking the Bible is a scientific book. The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of Redemption, and of course I accept the Creation story. I believe that God did create the universe. I believe that God created man, and whether it came by an evolutionary process and at a certain point He took this person or being and made him a living soul or not, does not change the fact that God did create man.
Billy Graham: Personal Thoughts of a Public Man

These guys are stuck on Henry Morris for some reason.

To look at YEC and Racism historically ;

1. The SBC was formed in 1845 at least in part in opposition to slave-owning
by the "northern" Baptists.
2. The Southern Presbyterians like Dabney in the 1860s adopted a 6 day
creationism and rejection of geology to buttress their views of the sons of
Ham and support of slavery.
3. Bob Jones Univ a bastion of YEC teaching in science has only in recent
years allowed non-whites to be students and I believe still bans
"inter-racial " dating.
4. In the 60s Duyevene de Wit of the Univ of Potchefstrom (which I have
driven through) in the Orange Free State in South Africa wrote an YEC book
which I am sure was republished by Presbyterain and Reformed (who published
TGF in 1961). He, according to Russell Maatman of Dordt, argued that
non-whites were a degeneration of Adam. Apartheid was also anti
evolutionary, and comes out in Afrikaner ideas of "Christian Higher
Education". Evolution was not taught in the OFS.
5. Henry Morris the founder father of modern YEC argued for racism as Glenn
a nd I quoted in a book published in 1991, which is very recent. Morris has
received no criticism for that racism and is still respected by YEC. That
raises moral doubts about YEC. Morris of course is the founder etc of ICR
and thus that organisation should be seen as morally suspect. Surely Ken Ham
et al should have lambasted H Morris for his racism and not just the
evolutionist, who have had a drubbing from the likes of Gould and Ruse.

ASA - November 2003: Re: Racism and YEC (WAS:Four items of possible controversy)

Agassiz was one of the great scientists, and was regrettably very racist, even arguing that blacks were not the descendants of Adam and Eve. He also happened to be opposed to Darwin's theory. But he was definitely in the camp of science.

 

[AV1611VET]

Some scientists like Agassiz opposed Darwin's idea that all humans were essentially the same. As we discussed, Darwin angered people when he said that if "savages" were brought to England, in a few generations, they'd be just like Englishmen. He was right. It took a while to clear out prejudices.

BUT, we're talking nurture -- not nature.

You say it took awhile for them to "clear out their prejudices."

But if those "prejudices" were taught as nature -- not nurture -- then I can see why it would take awhile.

Scientists would first have to convince these "prejudical people" that they are savages -- not because of their DNA, but because they were brought up as savages.

In other words, scientists would have to admit that they (the scientists) were wrong in teaching them it was their DNA.

And given science's track record of admitting openly they were wrong ... well ... you can't blame others for not "clearing out".

 

[The Barbarian]

Some scientists like Agassiz opposed Darwin's idea that all humans were essentially the same. As we discussed, Darwin angered people when he said that if "savages" were brought to England, in a few generations, they'd be just like Englishmen. He was right. It took a while to clear out prejudices.

BUT, we're talking nurture -- not nature.

So was he.

You say it took awhile for them to "clear out their prejudices."

Yeah. Xenophobia is human. But science has debunked those ideas. That's why racist biologists are very scarce, while YEC is still honoring blatant racists like Henry Morris and Bob Jones.

In other words, scientists would have to admit that they (the scientists) were wrong in teaching them it was their DNA.

Show us a scientist who claimed it was in their DNA. That's not a rhetorical question. I want to see that.

And given science's track record of admitting openly they were wrong

Agassiz never admitted that he was wrong on racism and evolution. But the new generation of scientists were able to shed that bilge. Today, even YEC is starting to move away from it. Because the science shows that the racist foundations of YEC are just wrong.

 

[The Barbarian]

It is interesting that the reverse transition from Englishman to savage does not need even a single generation given the right (i.e. wrong) circumstances.

Today's winner.

 

[The Barbarian]

It does not say the concept of those three races was introduced by YECs.

The idea that there are biological human races does not suggest that some are inferior. Rather, racism (attributing inferiority to a supposed race) is a foundational belief of YEC. Many YECs have abandoned that part of YEC, but the fact remains. At a time when scientists were showing that there are no biological human races, founding YEC like Henry Morris and William Tinkle were blathering about eugenics and the supposed intellectual and spiritual inferiority of black people.

 

[AV1611VET]

The idea that there are biological human races does not suggest that some are inferior. Rather, racism (attributing inferiority to a supposed race) is a foundational belief of YEC. Many YECs have abandoned that part of YEC, but the fact remains. At a time when scientists were showing that there are no biological human races, founding YEC like Henry Morris and William Tinkle were blathering about eugenics and the supposed intellectual and spiritual inferiority of black people.

From the words of the late Henry Morris himself:

Some people today, especially those of anti-Christian opinions, have the mistaken notion that the Bible prescribes permanent racial divisions among men and is, therefore, the cause of modern racial hatreds. As a matter of fact, the Bible says nothing whatever about race. Neither the word nor the concept of different "races" is found in the Bible at all. As far as one can learn from a study of Scripture, the writers of the Bible did not even know there were distinct races of men, in the sense of black and yellow and white races, or Caucasian and Mongol and Negroid races, or any other such divisions.

SOURCE

 

[Shemjaza]

From the words of the late Henry Morris himself:

Some people today, especially those of anti-Christian opinions, have the mistaken notion that the Bible prescribes permanent racial divisions among men and is, therefore, the cause of modern racial hatreds. As a matter of fact, the Bible says nothing whatever about race. Neither the word nor the concept of different "races" is found in the Bible at all. As far as one can learn from a study of Scripture, the writers of the Bible did not even know there were distinct races of men, in the sense of black and yellow and white races, or Caucasian and Mongol and Negroid races, or any other such divisions.

SOURCE

And yet:

Often the Hamites, especially the Negroes, have become actual personal servants or even slaves to the others. Possessed of a genetic character concerned mainly with mundane matters, they were eventually displaced by the intellectual and philosophical acumen of the Japhethites and the religious zeal of the Semites.

 

[The Barbarian]

And yet:

Often the Hamites, especially the Negroes, have become actual personal servants or even slaves to the others. Possessed of a genetic character concerned mainly with mundane matters, they were eventually displaced by the intellectual and philosophical acumen of the Japhethites and the religious zeal of the Semites.

Later on, Henry was eager to somehow cover up what he had written in the late 1990s. But too many copies of the books are out there.

George Wallace, by contrast, was a determined segregationist. Late in life, he repented publicly and asked forgiveness from the people he had wronged. Morris merely tried to cover his tracks, showing no sign of repentance at all.