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Featured Futurist Only Who is the beast that rains down fire?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by The Times, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    Good as well.

    Thanks be to Jesus always.

    Well said.

    It would be fun to see. If I'm wrong, and the times continue forward past 2020, it might be possible.

    I'm not sure. While I do think that the second beast, the Antichrist, rises from the United States, I'm not sure that this will be his platform or that he will stay here for long. Based on Daniel 11:36 through to the end, I tend to think that the man of sin will be on the move.

    I think that the seventh, who stays for a short time, is Protestantism. The eight king is very close to Lucifer. It will be the last religious system prior to the second coming, Lucifer's theocratic government. Each of these heads having a blasphemous name, tends to steer me towards a religious origin. The identification of the one healed from a mortal head wound would also indicate that the other 6 would be something of the same kind.

    Well, trigger might not be the best choice of words. Lucifer has influenced humanity over time to the point again, like in the days of Noah and Lot, where God's wrath is going to break out again. Lucifer didn't hold a gun to our heads right? He didn't do it alone. Humanity made their choice and the majority ruled. So no, I don't think that he's the direct cause. But at the same time, would it have happened without his influence? Would we be where we are now?

    I know, like all through the Book of Daniel. Can this time be an exception?

    The second beast is the same beast that rises from the bottomless pit at the fifth trumpet and goes on to make war with and kill the two witnesses.

    So if we agree that it is the second beast that rises from the bottomless pit at the fifth trumpet and goes on to make war with and kill the two witnesses, the identity of this beast is the destroyer, the angel king of the bottomless pit.

    "And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft.

    "They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.

    Lucifer has many names in the Bible but it's the same guy. Both in Hebrew and in Greek his name means destroyer.

    Here's another example of the second beast that causes fire to fall from Heaven:

    "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction.

    This is talking again about our second beast that rises out of the bottomless pit and goes on to kill the two witnesses. This can't be a country or single government. This spans the time from the garden until now, 6000 years of Bible history. Lucifer once "was" visible as a serpent in the garden, he now is "not" visible while in the abyss, he will become visible again when he rises out of the bottomless pit and goes to his destruction. The United States just can't fill all the specifications that Lucifer can. The USA hasn't been around long enough.

    "And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth.

    This is our same guy. It calls him a great red dragon, not a beast here, but he still has the same seven heads and ten horns. But i think it goes without saying that a great red dragon is a beast. I could still be wrong.

    "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    I have this taking place on resurrection Sunday. That was the last time he was SEEN. When he was cast INTO the earth. And his angels with him.

    But he will become visible again at the 5th trumpet, when the abyss is unlocked. And he will go to his destruction.

    This is scary stuff man, this gives me the willies.
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  2. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

    Eastern Orthodox
    Could the two horns of the lamb like beast have a geopolitical Capitol base like the future revamped United States and a religious Capitoline base like today's Jerusalem?

    No doubt he will be an international man and the head of the United Nations. Since there is talks of moving the UN to Israel, then it leads me to believe that he will operate religiously from Israel and politically like a Dragon from the United States.

    Why do you say that the seventh king is Protestantism? Do you mean the eight king who gets his power from the Dragon emerges from a post Protestant world? If so, is he the false prophet or the antichrist aka Lucifer?

    So many questions and unknowns.....

    I understand what you are saying and agree. It is like the motto "If you build it, he will come". This implies that man is being equiped to break the vail between this world and the unseen realm and when those paths cross all hell breaks loose. I guess that is why it is written, that the People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken.(Luke 21:26)

    It seems to me, that Lucifer through CERN and many black Ops projects into the supernatural has been teaching his servants to build something that will break the vail and turn the world upside down and inside out. But having said that, it really is conjecture on my part.

    In the Book of Daniel we see the Beasts as governments, yet in the Old Testament we also are informed that certain kings of beasts were pointing to Lucifer as the head authoritative figure....

    But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. (Daniel 10:13)

    Yes, I believe that now. We can also say that the people of the Prince mentioned in Daniel 9:26 could also point to Lucifer as the head of the 1st beast, which I believe pointed to the Roman Empire. I believe there is a parallel of this depiction to the king of Persia mentioned in Daniel 10:13.

    It is possible that the eighth king is a resurrected king from the bottomless Pitt, that is, "if you build it, he will come".

    There must be a beast and a little Caesar (little horn) running it. Where previously Lucifer ruled indirectly through his earthly principalities, that is why, when the 1st beast goes down, he emerges out of the earth, that is out of the bottomless Pitt in person as the little Ceasar (little horn), to directly rule the newly revamped global Roman Empire, the fourth beast with ten toes made of clay and iron.

    If say the 1st beast of Revelation was the Roman Empire where it historically and mortally was dismantled and was described to go down into the lake of fire, yet the Dragon was chained back then. I think Satan was prevented from unilaterally ruling earth through one empire and one principle man (ceasar). However, when the 1st beast image (2nd beast) along with the little Ceasar (little horn) emerge together, this time the Dragon himself goes into the lack of fire.

    I think this is the clue here.....

    20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. (Rev 19:20-21)

    What happened to the Dragon?

    1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (Rev 20:1-3)

    What happens to the resurrected/incarnated Dragon when he re-emerges from the bottomless Pitt in person?

    7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev 20:7-10

    It seems to me, that the original 1st beast needed to be a historical beastly kingdom, with the Dragon ruling through his principle man, that is a Ceasar. The Dragon at that time was chained because he was not physically in the world. However after he re-emerges out of the bottomless Pitt some thousands of years latter in the final battle, he is incarnated as the little Ceasar (little horn), who then is prepared for his day of execution in the lake of fire.

    Maybe I am making all this up and it is nothing, but I am looking at the re-emerging of the beast of the bottmless Pitt, the finale to the millennium reign and not the beginning, because Lucifer will be executed after he manifests physically in the world as a person.

    Yes, I believe it is the same entity who controlled the 1st beast, through his principle man, a Ceasar. This time, he comes in person to finish off Christ's Church, whom I believe are the spiritual witnesses who will preach against Lucifer when he manifests in the world.

    I think it points to the finale and the end of the millennium reign.

    This is Lucifer the Dragon who was chained previously when the millennium commenced and after his 1st Beast Empire was mortally dismantled, along with the false religious system (his prophet).

    Yes, I concur.

    So it could point to both a global governmental authority like Rome was, with a kingly head who ruled on behest of the Dragon, yet the 2nd beast is a lamb like beast, meaning it incorporates a universal Luciferean religion, with the exception that the little horn is now Satan in person as the eighth king, who is also the seventh, which would parallel Jesus who is the Lord of the Sabbath and he was resurrected on the eighth day. This guy however is the counterfeit artist who impersonates Christ.

    I totally agree, the beast cannot be a beast, unless Satan is either empowering it through his appointed man or running it directly himself as the incarnated beast. Satan and the beast are inseparable and the only difference is that at the finale he appears in person.

    Yes, I understand that the beast cannot be separated from Satan, they are one. Yet because we are in the world Satan always uses earthly authority as his machinery to enforce his rule, whether indirectly through an appointed man or directly himself, at the finale.

    If we recall Satan wanted to give all the earthly kingdoms to Jesus and to make him his appointed man, but Jesus flatly refused.

    This happened when the 1st beast went down. I believe that it historically points to Rome and its religious state under a Ceasaral head, who would rule with impunity.

    I believe that Satan was cast into the earth. Yet his 1st beast and false prophet would continue for a short while until they went into the lake of fire and Satan was prevented from dominating the globe thereafter, giving a chance for the Protestant Church and the Eastern Church to flourish.

    Yes, this time he will go into the lake of fire, where the original Great Roman Empire was cast in on his first failed attempt to destroy the Church. The 2nd beast must be a conglomerate beast having ten toes and partly strong and partly weak. The 2nd beast must carry on in the split image of the 1st beast. The physical attributes of the historic to the modern global empires change, yet the Dragon beast remains the same head, whether through direct or indirect Dragon controlling influence.

    We are living in terrifying times and seeing lawlessness being legalised and the good standing Christians being demonised by progressive liberals is quite disconcerting to say the least.

    We all desperately need the Blessings of God and most importantly God's Word, for his Word is Life and his Word is Truth and Light. The only thing that will separate Light from Darkness, especially in the times we are living in right now is God's Word.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
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  3. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

    Eastern Orthodox
    I came across this YouTube video, dated 13th October 2017, by a gentlemen called Gonz.

    The video describes what Nikola Tesla had discovered and I promise you that I had not even come across this video, until today. Having said that, my OP dates back on the 10th October 2017.

    Here is the clip....

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  4. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter


    A review of Rev.13 reveals The dragon to be Satan, the beast out of the sea, to be the Antichrist, Satan will give His throne, power and great authority to, and the beast out of the earth, who will cause fire to come down from heaven, to be the False Prophet, as follows:

    The Beast out of the Sea

    Rev.13:1 "The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. 4People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”

    5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.b

    9Whoever has ears, let them hear.

    10“If anyone is to go into captivity,

    into captivity they will go.

    If anyone is to be killedc with the sword,

    with the sword they will be killed.”d

    This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

    The Beast out of the Earth

    11Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

    18This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.e That number is 666"

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  5. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    While anything seems possible at this point, I'll say that I doubt it. My understanding on the "two horns" of the lamb like beast is weak. But I suspect that the two horns are a reference to the little horn of Daniel 7, and the little horn of Daniel 8. I think that the Daniel 7 horn was during the middle ages, and the horn power form Daniel 8 is our end time version. Similarly to how Jesus will have two visitations, the second beast Lucifer, will have two earthly times of authority.

    This is one of the toughest to answer. The seventh king is Protestantism, it will be here for a short time. Protestantism recently celebrated it's 500 year anniversary. That sent chills down my spine.

    When Jesus died, and then rose again after 3 days and nights, He proved all of the previous religious belief systems false. All of them had fallen. Like a fallen woman, the other religious systems were proved false.

    Some of them had been around since the days of Noah. And at the time John was speaking with the angel, the early Christian church was just starting to organize, it was the one that was, the one that would become known as Catholicism.

    But at the time John was talking to the angel he mentioned about the other one had not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. That seventh king was Protestantism.

    Every single person on the planet can trace their membership to one of these seven belief systems. The Islamic belief system that began with Ishmael wasn't called "Mohammedanism" until recently, but those guys aren't much newer than Judaism.

    • Atheism.
    • Paganism.
    • Eastern Mysticism.
    • Judaism.
    • Mohammedanism.
    • Catholicism.
    • Protestantism.

    Each of them having a blasphemous name written on their head.

    So as I call the 8th king Lucifer's theocratic government, a theocracy is a government by divine guidance or by an individual that claims to be God. At the 5th trumpet, Lucifer will appear in person and abolish all of the previous belief systems. He will establish his mother of all harlots. She will be the 8th and last religions authority.

    This IS very interesting, very spooky. Those people at CERN were reporting seeing things, apparitions of sorts. The thought that Lucifer and his demons could communicate instructions to the scientists on how to construct a mechanism that would let them all out of the abyss. That's a scary thought. But i know that God is in control, and that they will be bound until the very hour, day, month, and year.

    I think the prince of Persia was Lucifer. The second beast strikes again. I wonder what the 21 days is about.

    Do you mean the Daniel 7 beast with teeth of iron and claws of bronze. Titus? People of the prince? People of the Devil? The holy Roman empire? My neurotransmitters are getting weak.

    I don't think so. Because I think the 8th king is the 8th head. It's one of the same kind as the one that was wounded by the sword, and yet lives.

    You might be closer than we are aware of. I think the first beast will go down at the 5th trumpet. At that time, Lucifer will make the image of that first beast who was wounded by the sword. That's where we'll run into the most trouble. That's where the tribulation will be it's most serious. All of the coercion techniques will be abandoned by Lucifer in favor of the demand to take the mark and worship this image, or die.

    That's right. Lucifer has always used human agents. He used Herod to try to kill baby Jesus. He used the early church to persecute God's people. But it was always the dragon's hand that was in the glove.

    So if we can consider that the first beast from Revelation 13 that rises from the sea is really just the revamp new and improved edition of the Daniel 7 iron teeth entity, it may help us to understand where the original wound occurred. As when it rises, the wound has already been healed.

    Cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. We get three birds with one Stone. It's the same guy. They are just different names for the same man of sin.

    "Coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs.

    These are not three different individuals. God calls him the dragon, the beast and the false prophet. These different names act as descriptors and help us to understand the individual's character. Check out all the different names that the Bible calls Lucifer. But there's only one angel king of the abyss. And a house divided can't stand.

    I rearranged this quote because I think that we're talking about the 5th trumpet unlocking of the abyss. It seemed like you're jumping too far ahead after the thousand years. When the Devil appears at the 5th trumpet, he will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.

    You're not making this up. But it looks to me like you've jumped too far ahead to after the thousand years are finished.

    There's no doubt that there are various way of understanding this. I'm of the understanding that the 1000 years are literal. So we've got a situation now where the Devil is locked, let out, locked back in for a thousand years and then let back out for a short time after the thousand years.

    You said a mouthful. I think that the lamb like beast speaks like a dragon, because he IS the dragon.

    I think that you're right, if we're talking about Daniel 7's iron teeth beast. He went down in 1798.

    Still sounds like we're taking about the Daniel 7 beast.

    I can't go on. My neurotransmitters are burning out. I need coffee. And a Pizza.

    What you're saying about the 2nd beast must carry on in the "split image" of the 1st beast, is actually not bad. It's like a carbon copy of the first beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lives. It's not a statue or a figurine. It's beter described as a duplicate of the fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong with great iron teeth.

    The second beast from Revelation 13 can't be a composite beast, only the first. The first beast is composed of seven heads, seven religious systems and ten horns, ten toes or ten ruling kings that will be given power for one hour.

    The hour of power.

    It sounds like disco.

    I believe in miracles,
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  6. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

    Eastern Orthodox
    So are you saying that Lucifer has a first coming historically speaking before being chained and now when released, he has a second and final coming before he too is destroyed in the lake of fire?

    This seems to parallel the Lord's first and second coming.


    Yes, that is right!


    I see.

    That is right!

    The many daughters, right?

    It will become more apparent as time plots along.

    Yes, that is right. He will establish his Luciferean religious authority. How he does this is his final deception.

    It seems that man has served those principalities under Lucifer who has given power to the elites who have always ruled humanity.

    Interesting question.

    Yes, people who supported the other guy. Sorry about firing all these questions.

    That would match.

    If Lucifer cannot decieve them by coercion, then he will kill those who are seen to stand against him.

    Yes, agreed!

    The time frame of the wound being healed is what puzzles me most. So I would say the when rather than the where.

    Yes, offcourse.

    It has to be the same guy. The one designated the beast of the bottomless Pitt.

    I cannot get my head around the 1000 years, as far as the start and finishing are concerned. Because if Lucifer is thrown in the lake of fire when he comes the second time, does that signify the beginning or the end of the 1000 years?

    Again this 1000 years confuses me as I can not put it before or after the beast of the bottomless pit is released.

    I cannot seem to find that the devil goes back to the bottomless Pitt, his prison the second time. What I find is that after he is released the first time, he goes straight to the lake of fire.


    Yes. I picked up on this in the following versus....

    Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12(The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

    The horn/king or Lucifer the first time was chained and the beasts that he controlled were allowed to live for a little season until 1798, possibly. Yet when he emerges out of the bottles Pitt as the 8th horn, then he comes when Mystery Babylon is built up again for his second coming. Is that right?

    Yes. That would be the little horn before he was chained right? Yet his beast kingdom continued and ended in 1798.

    Yes, that is right. It would be Mystery Babylon as opposed to the original Babylon.

    I see.

    Yes, Agreed!

    So this comes back to the 1000 years if there are two comings of Lucifer. His first time when he was chained, must have been the commencement of the 1000 years is it not? I can't see more than two comings.
  7. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

    Wait, you all think it is satan chained at present? No, it is Apollyon that is currently bound in the bottomless pit.Scripture calls him the king over the locust horde.
    Rev. 9: 11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

    Remember, there are many fallen angels bound that will be released upon the Earth during the last seven years before the glorious return of Lord Jesus. Satan has not been bound yet, but he will be bound during the millennium .
    1Peter 5: 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
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  8. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

    Eastern Orthodox
    Who is God talking to in Isaiah 33? Why is the word locusts used here to depict a destroying force?

    1 "How terrible it will be for you, destroyer, you who have not been destroyed yourself! And how terrible it will be for you, traitor, one whom people have not betrayed! When you have sunk so low in destroying others, you will be destroyed; and when you have finished betraying, they will betray you."
    2 "LORD, be gracious to us; we long for you; and be our strength every morning, our salvation in times of trouble.
    3 At the thunder of your voice, the nations flee; at your silence, the nations scatter.
    4 Your plunder is gathered as when grasshoppers gather; just like locusts pounce, people have pounced on it.

    In Isaiah 14:15 Lucifer is described as being imprisoned to the sides of the pit. If the definite article the Pitt is used, does this not allude to the bottomless Pitt? Or is there another Pitt? Would I also be correct to insert destroy instead of weaken the nations, especially if Lucifer claimed to have dominion over all of them?

    12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken/destroy the nations!

    13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

    14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

    15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
  9. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

    Eastern Orthodox
  10. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

    Sometimes you need to read another translation to understand prophetic passages.

    Doom to you, Destroyer,
    not yet destroyed;
    And doom to you, Betrayer,
    not yet betrayed.
    When you finish destroying,
    your turn will come—destroyed!
    When you quit betraying,
    your turn will come—betrayed!

    2-4 God, treat us kindly. You’re our only hope.
    First thing in the morning, be there for us!
    When things go bad, help us out!
    You spoke in thunder and everyone ran.
    You showed up and nations scattered.
    Your people, for a change, got in on the loot,
    picking the field clean of the enemy spoils.

    You can see 2-4 is a lament to our Father. Satan/Lucifer will go down into the pit when Lord Jesus comes to reign on Earth for the millennium.
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  11. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

    Isaiah 33:1 is the same massage as Matthew 7:1-2 and 12

    Matthew 7:1-12 (NASB) "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you... In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

    because there is inevitable, eternal circle of existence, positions of and events with the souls, IOW, whatever we do for/to others in this eternity, the same will be done for/to us in next and future eternities...

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  12. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

    Eastern Orthodox
    That is the only thing I have difficulty in understanding regarding when the millennium starts and finishes.

    My question to you is how do we marry the great harvest to the millennium?

    Did the harvest commence when Jesus said.....

    Then He says to His disciples, "The harvest indeed is plentiful, but the workmen are few. (Matthew 9:37)

    Had the great harvest not being worked on for the last 2000 years by workmen that Jesus has sent into the world?
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  13. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

    The harvest began at Pentecost and imho it ends when Satan is cast into the lake of fire. That is just my opinion.After satan is released from the pit, he will be allowed to deceive people born during the millennium.Some will follow him.
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  14. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

    Eastern Orthodox
    So the harvest ends and Satan is no more and the millennium reign begins, is that right?
  15. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

    NO!The millennium is over. Satan is cast into the lake of fire forever. Then comes the New Heaven and the New Earth.
  16. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

    United States
    Kim Jung Un has authority to bring down fire from the sky. Supposedly N. Korea has nukes on their satellites or will soon have them situated up there traveling right over our country everyday, giving them a time advantage with only 150 miles straight down instead of thousands of miles. Not to say he is the primary end-time antichrist but he is an anti-Christ for sure. The Ayatollah Khomeini is, Putin is, every Muslim leader is, Xi Jinping is as well -- they are all anti-Christ.
    Which one of them will serve Satan as the Big Kahuna is yet to be seen.
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  17. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

    Eastern Orthodox
    Thanks for your input.
    I agree with you, that at present there are many antichrists who operate against the truth of Jesus Christ and they would not be limited to those people you have provided, this would also apply historically.

    What bothers me though is, that the antichrist comes from the bottomless Pitt as @Handmaid for Jesus and @Dave Watchman have stated and I believe that too. The only problem with this is, that this personality is not known to the world and will only be made know at the appointed time. Where he comes from is the earth, that is the bottomless Pitt and all the world wondered after the beast, which indicates to me that there is a free will choice that is being consciously made.

    I saw that one of the heads of the beast seemed wounded beyond recovery--but the fatal wound was healed! The whole world marveled at this miracle and gave allegiance to the beast. (Rev 131:3)
  18. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    Maybe it's better to think of them as visitations.

    "And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

    Jesus is going to have two visitations. The man of sin has two horns like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon. Lucifer has two prophetic time periods of authority where the saints will be given into his hands. Two separate time periods which are separated by an intermission. Souls beneath the alter told to rest a little longer, intermission, more fellow servants join them during the next time period. Dragon chased God's people during the Foxe Book days, intermission, Dragon ready to chase the rest of her offspring during the end times.

    The seizing and sealing of the dragon at the start of the 1000 years is something new, something different that the dragon has never experienced before. For the first time in his career, his access to humanity is closed. He can't deceive the nations anymore, he can't have an influence on people to cause them to sin.

    With the 8th being the Mother of harlots.

    Right. But not for the whole 42 months. Not even for the first 5 months that he is enabled to become revealed to us. At the 6th trumpet the Dragon will be allowed to kill a third of mankind. And this might not be until the last 2 or three months of the tribulation. Or else no flesh saved alive. I'm trying to think optimistically here.

    Me too. Watching a wound heal sounds like watching a pot boil. Mussolini started the healing process in 1929 when he reopened the Vatican. He's looking in good shape now while addressing the congress here.


    And not one mention of Christ Jesus.

    The beginning. He doesn't die when he gets thrown into the lake of fire at the end of the tribulation. Everyone else dies, but not him.

    Paul's "man" of sin:

    ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
    who shook kingdoms,

    "All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
    each in his own tomb;d

    "but you are cast out, away from your grave,
    like a loathed branch,
    clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword,
    who go down to the stones of the pit,
    like a dead body trampled underfoot.

    You will not be joined with them in burial,
    because you have destroyed your land,
    you have slain your people.​

    The 5th trumpet release of the beast is before the 1000 years. He is released into a time of his own authority. But even prior to this he was able to tempt us, he was able to prowl around in spirit like a roaring lion looking for whom he could devour.

    After the thousand years are finished he will be released again, but not into a time of his own authority. Just a very short season, a short time, and he will immediately deceive the nations of evil doers, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them.

    And so nevermore,
    Shall we see them again.

    "And is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction.

    He does go to his destruction, but he comes back at the end of the thousand years. Only the beast's "body" is destroyed, not Lucifer himself. I think that's what Daniel 7 is talking about, "I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed.

    At the end of the tribulation all of the wicked are killed by the white horse Rider in Revelation 19. It's not until after the thousand years are finished that they come back to life again for the white throne judgement.

    "And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.​

    They can't be judged according to what they had done because WE are involved in some of that judgement. "Do ye not then know that the saints shall judge the world? This Pauline phase of the judgement process will involve input from some of the saints. Some of those saints have not been alive since Cain and Abel. So maybe crime victims will have some input with regard to how many stripes the accused will be paid back during the great WTJ. This might be what we're doing during the thousand years.

    Yes, that's close enough. The only thing that i would clarify here is that when he is cast into the abyss, he's not always chained. So even though he is in the abyss right now, he's not chained as he will be at the start of the thousand years. He can still tempt us, he can still steer humanity on a course directed to lawlessness. He is still the prince of the power of the air.

    And this is how he will get back out of the abyss, he doesn't need CERN. By continuing to cause humanity to fill up their cup of iniquity, he has, in effect, risen up to the place of His sanctuary. All the wars, all the murders, immorality, legalized abortion, pornography and LGBT. He has been very busy working from the abyss because he knows that this will eventually trigger God's Wrath and he will cause fire to fall from Heaven in the presence of men. These will be the catalyst for his physical manifestation at the 5th trumpet.

    Not exactly, I think Daniel is doing something like he did in chapter 9. And until the end, desolations are decreed. Daniel is doing what I would be doing too. He keeps looking, he keeps watching past the time of the prophecy of LH7 all the way until the end when LH8 is destroyed.. "Then I continued to watch, "I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.

    Daniel is taking a peek at the beast's tribulation end. Notice it's "body" is destroyed.

    1) 1st time of authority, God's people are given into his hand for the 1260 years during the Foxe Book days.

    Intermission. The Dragon goes off to make war on the Woman's offspring.

    2) 2nd time of authority, Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them during the 42 months of Revelation 13.

    Intermission #2 for the Dragon.

    3) After the thousand years are finished, he is released again for a short season for the purpose of showing that he will still deceive the nations. This third time he gets no horn, he has no authority.

    I'm not worried about the thousand years. Some people argue about them, but it doesn't concern me. I'm more curious about why God would want us to know about them now before they take place. In other words, He could have told us that Jesus will rule with the saints while they will judge the world, and even judge some angels while the Dragon is bound for a long time after the tribulation. But why was He specific in letting us know now that this would be a thousand year duration?

    One reason that I can think of is that it might be a hint to let us know where we are in the prophetic schematic. That Ussher chronology idea where there's 6000 years of Bible history, six thousand year days. A seventh "day" of one thousand years would fit the picture and help to confirm that we are just about here.

    I bet we don't have too much longer to find out.