• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Seventh-Day Adventists only; the meaning of "proceeded forth" in John 8:42 KJB

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists' started by The7thColporteur, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +274
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Seventh-Day Adventists only; the meaning of "proceeded forth" in John 8:42 KJB

    This thread's stated purpose, READ before posting:

    My stated goals, is to rescue the perishing, care for the dying, to snatch them in pity from sin and the grave; and so I weep over the erring one, and now must attempt to lift up the fallen, and re-tell them of the true and everlasting Jesus, who is mighty to save. Jesus is merciful, Jesus will save.

    There are those these days denying the [1] eternality of the person/being the Son, and [2] the person/being of the Holy Spirit, teaching that there are only 'two beings' and 'three personalities'.

    Such is grevious error, and against the most plainly stated texts within the scripture [the preserved word of God in english, the King James Bible [KJB], aka the common bible or AV] and against the SOP/TOJ and even certain pioneers, such as sister White in her personal materials, James White in his later mature materials, Jospeh Bates, A. T. Jones, and others.

    Truth:

    "... The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the eternal Godhead ..." - Ms 45, May 14, 1904, par. 16; May 14, 1904

    [Please note, that it does not say "the eternal God", but rather "the eternal Godhead". The word Godhead is used differently than the word God.]

    "... There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ. ..." - Ms 21, 1906 (November 1905) par. 11

    [please note the difference between merely "three" and "trio" [three working together in one accord, at-one-ment, "chord", etc], proof upon request of the differing definition.]
    "... Here is where the work of the Holy Ghost comes in, after your baptism. You are baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. You are raised up out of the water to live henceforth in newness of life—to live a new life. You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. You are to reveal that you are dead to sin; your life is hid with Christ in God. Hidden “with Christ in God”—wonderful transformation. This is a most precious promise. When I feel oppressed and hardly know how to relate myself toward the work that God has given me to do, I just call upon the three great Worthies, and say: You know I cannot do this work in my own strength. You must work in me, and by me, and through me, sanctifying my tongue, sanctifying my spirit, sanctifying my words, and bringing me into a position where my spirit shall be susceptible to the movings of the Holy Spirit of God upon my mind and character. Ms95-1906 (October 20, 1906) par. 29

    And this is the prayer that every one of us may offer. ..." - Ms 95, 1906 (October 20, 1906) par. 29 [there are multiple carbons of the original, this is untampered]

    [please note the "three ... beings", not 'two beings', and capital "W" in "three great Worthies", which all of whom are called upon unitedly in a prayer by sister White.]
    I have many, many more, all citations upon request, in their orderly years, and in all their known instances and forms, capitals, lowercase, varied forms, etc.

    What follows is a lengthy evidence, take your time. It is a resource tool.

    2 Timothy 2:24 KJB - And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

    2 Timothy 2:25 KJB - In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

    2 Timothy 2:26 KJB - And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

    2 Timothy 2:15 KJB - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​
    Here is the Table of Contents for this post, for fast searching:

    The John 8:42 KJB contextually

    The words “proceeded forth” G1831, as translated throughout scripture [KJB]

    The root words of “proceeded forth” G1831 being from G1537 and G2064

    The words “proceeded forth”, contextually locally

    The words “proceeded forth”, contextually globally

    The words in the so-called LXX and 'birth'

    The coming from the bosom of God

    The definitional proof is in the text of John 8:42 KJB [shortcut answer]

    The connection that some make between John 8:42 KJB and Proverbs 8:22-31 KJB; the 'pioneers' and more

    The John 8:42 KJB contextually:

    John 8:12 KJB - Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

    John 8:13 KJB - The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

    John 8:14 KJB - Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

    John 8:15 KJB - Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

    John 8:16 KJB - And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

    John 8:17 KJB - It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

    John 8:18 KJB - I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

    John 8:19 KJB - Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

    John 8:20 KJB - These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.

    John 8:21 KJB - Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

    John 8:22 KJB - Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.

    John 8:23 KJB - And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

    John 8:24 KJB - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    John 8:25 KJB - Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

    John 8:26 KJB - I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

    John 8:27 KJB - They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

    John 8:28 KJB - Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

    John 8:29 KJB - And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

    John 8:30 KJB - As he spake these words, many believed on him.

    John 8:31 KJB - Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

    John 8:32 KJB - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    John 8:33 KJB - They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

    John 8:34 KJB - Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

    John 8:35 KJB - And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

    John 8:36 KJB - If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

    John 8:37 KJB - I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

    John 8:38 KJB - I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

    John 8:39 KJB - They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

    John 8:40 KJB - But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

    John 8:41 KJB - Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

    John 8:42 KJB - Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

    John 8:43 KJB - Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

    John 8:44 KJB - Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    John 8:45 KJB - And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

    John 8:46 KJB - Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

    John 8:47 KJB - He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

    John 8:48 KJB - Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

    John 8:49 KJB - Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

    John 8:50 KJB - And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

    John 8:51 KJB - Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

    John 8:52 KJB - Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

    John 8:53 KJB - Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

    John 8:54 KJB - Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

    John 8:55 KJB - Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

    John 8:56 KJB - Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

    John 8:57 KJB - Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

    John 8:58 KJB - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    John 8:59 KJB - Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.​

    The words “proceeded forth” G1831, as translated throughout scripture [KJB]:

    G1831

    ἐξέρχομαι ; exerchomai

    Total KJB Occurrences: 257

    went, 87

    Matthew 9:26,32, 11:7-9 (3), 12:14, 13:1,3, 14:14, 15:21, 18:28, 20:5-6 (2), 21:17, 22:10, 25:1 (2), 26:30,75; Mark 1:35,45, 2:12-13 (2), 3:6,21, 4:3, 5:13-14 (2), 6:1,12,24, 8:27, 11:11, 14:16,26,68, 16:8,20; Luke 2:1, 4:14, 5:27, 6:12,19, 7:17,24-26 (3), 8:2,5,27,33,35, 17:29, 21:37, 22:62; John 4:30, 8:9,59, 11:31, 12:13, 13:30, 18:1,4,16,29,38, 19:4,17, 21:3 (2),23; Acts 1:21, 10:23, 12:9-10 (2), 15:24, 16:13,40, 19:12; Romans 10:18; 2 Corinthians 2:13, 8:17; Hebrews 11:8; 1 John 2:19; 3 John 1:7; Revelation 6:2,4
    came, 37

    Matthew 8:34, 12:44, 15:22, 27:32,53; Mark 1:26,38, 6:34, 8:11, 9:26; Luke 1:22, 4:35,41, 11:24, 15:28, 22:39; John 11:44, 16:27-28 (2), 17:8, 19:5,34; Acts 7:4, 8:7, 16:18, 28:3,15; 1 Corinthians 14:36; Hebrews 3:16, 11:15; Revelation 9:3, 14:15,17-18 (2),20, 15:6, 16:17
    forth, 34

    Matthew 13:3,49, 14:14, 15:18, 24:26, 25:1; Mark 1:38, 2:12-13 (2), 3:6, 6:24, 8:11, 9:29, 14:16, 16:20; Luke 5:27, 7:17, 8:27; John 1:43, 8:42, 11:44, 12:13, 16:28,30, 18:1,4, 19:17, 21:3 (2); Acts 7:7, 16:3; Hebrews 13:13; 3 John 1:7; Revelation 6:2
    come, 25

    Matthew 2:6, 5:26, 8:32, 13:49, 15:18, 26:55; Mark 1:25,29, 5:2,8, 6:54, 9:25,29, 11:12, 14:48; Luke 4:35-36 (2), 8:29, 22:52; John 13:3; Acts 7:7, 16:18; 2 Corinthians 6:17; Hebrews 7:5; Revelation 18:4
    departed, 22

    Matthew 9:31, 17:18, 28:8; Mark 9:30; Luke 4:42, 8:35,38, 9:6, 10:35; Acts 11:25, 12:17, 14:20, 16:40 (2), 17:33, 18:7,23, 20:1,11, 21:5,8; Philippians 4:15
    go, 16

    Matthew
    10:11, 24:26, 25:6; Luke 9:5, 10:10, 14:18,21,23; John 1:43; Acts 16:3,10; 1 Corinthians 5:10; Hebrews 11:8, 13:13; Revelation 3:12, 20:8
    gone, 11

    Matthew 12:43, 26:71; Mark 5:30, 7:29-30 (2); Luke 8:46, 11:14,24; John 13:31; Acts 16:19; 1 John 4:1
    depart, 7

    Matthew 10:14; Mark 6:10; Luke 5:8, 9:4, 12:59; Acts 16:36,39
    abroad, 4

    Matthew 9:26; Mark 1:28; John 21:23; 1 Thessalonians 1:8
    get, 3

    Luke 13:31; Acts 7:3, 22:18
    spread, 2

    Mark 1:28; 1 Thessalonians 1:8
    away, 1

    Acts 10:23
    camest, 1

    John 16:30
    cometh, 1

    Matthew 24:27
    coming, 1

    Matthew 8:27-28 (2)
    departing, 1

    Mark 7:31
    escaped, 1

    John 10:39
    proceed, 1

    Matthew 15:19
    proceeded, 1

    John 8:42
    proceedeth, 1

    James 3:10​

    The root words of “proceeded forth” G1831 being from G1537 and G2064:

    G1537

    ἐκ / ἐξ ; ek / ex

    Total KJB Occurrences: 76

    on, 34

    Matthew 20:21 (2),23 (2), 21:19, 22:44, 25:33-34 (3),41, 26:64, 27:38 (2); Mark 10:37 (2),40 (2), 12:36, 14:62, 15:27 (2), 16:19; Luke 1:11, 20:42, 22:69, 23:33 (2); Acts 2:25,34, 7:55-56 (2), 28:4; Hebrews 1:13; Revelation 18:20
    among, 5

    Matthew 12:11; John 12:20,42; Acts 6:3, 27:22
    over, 5

    Mark 15:39; Revelation 15:2 (4)
    at, 3

    John 16:4; James 3:11; Revelation 19:2
    reason, 3

    Revelation 8:13, 9:2, 18:19
    through, 3

    2 Corinthians 13:4; Galatians 3:8; Revelation 18:3
    again, 2

    John 9:24; Acts 11:9
    because, 2

    Revelation 16:11,21
    whereof, 2

    1 Timothy 6:4; Hebrews 13:10
    abundantly, 1

    Ephesians 3:20
    against, 1

    Mark 15:39
    believeth, 1

    Romans 3:26
    between, 1

    John 3:25
    betwixt, 1

    Philippians 1:23
    beyond, 1

    Mark 6:51
    contentious, 1

    Romans 2:8
    earthly, 1

    John 3:31
    exceedingly, 1

    1 Thessalonians 3:10
    grudgingly, 1

    2 Corinthians 9:7
    heartily, 1

    Colossians 3:23
    heavenly, 1

    Luke 11:13
    hereby, 1

    1 John 4:6
    highly, 1

    1 Thessalonians 5:13
    off, 1

    Mark 11:8
    since, 1

    John 9:32
    thenceforth, 1

    John 19:12
    G2064

    ἔρχομαι ; erchomai

    Total KJB Occurrences: 643

    come, 291

    Matthew 2:2,8,11, 3:7, 5:17 (2),24, 6:10, 7:15, 8:7,9,14,28-29 (2), 9:13,15,18,28, 10:13,23,34-35 (2), 11:3,14, 12:44, 13:32,54, 14:28-29 (2), 16:5,24,27, 17:10-12 (3), 17:14, 17:24, 18:7, 18:11, 19:14, 21:1, 21:23, 22:3, 23:35, 24:5, 24:42-43 (2), 25:31, 27:33, 27:49, 27:64; Mark 1:24, 2:3, 2:18,20, 4:22, 5:15,23, 8:34, 9:1,11, 10:13-14 (2),30, 11:15,27 (2), 12:9,14,18, 13:6, 14:41,45, 15:36, 16:1; Luke 1:43, 4:34, 5:7,17,35, 7:3,7-8 (2),19-20 (2),34, 8:17, 9:23,26,56, 11:1-2 (2), 12:38-39 (3),49, 13:7,14, 14:9,17,20,26-27 (2), 15:30, 16:28, 17:1 (2),20,22, 18:16,30, 19:10,13, 20:16, 21:6,8, 22:18,45; John 1:31,39,46, 3:2,19,26, 4:15-16 (2),25,40,45,54, 5:24,40,43 (2), 6:5,14-15 (2),17,44,65, 7:28,30,34,36-37 (2),41, 8:14,20-22 (3), 9:39, 10:10, 11:27,30,32,34,48,56, 12:12,23,46, 13:1,33, 14:3,18,23,28, 15:22,26, 16:4,7-8 (2),13 (2),21,28,32, 17:1,11,13, 18:4, 21:22-23 (2); Acts 1:11, 2:20, 3:19, 8:27, 16:7,37, 17:15, 18:2, 19:4, 21:11,22, 24:8, 25:23; Romans 1:10,13, 9:8-9 (2), 15:23-24 (2),29 (2),32; 1 Corinthians 4:5, 4:18-19 (2), 4:21, 11:26, 11:34, 13:10, 14:6, 15:35, 16:2, 16:5, 16:10-12 (5); 2 Corinthians 1:15-16 (2), 2:1, 7:5, 9:4, 12:1, 12:14, 12:20-21 (2), 13:2; Galatians 2:11-12 (2), 3:19, 3:25, 4:4; Philippians 1:27, 2:24; Colossians 4:10; 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2:18; 2 Thessalonians 1:10, 2:3 (2); 1 Timothy 2:4, 3:14, 4:13; 2 Timothy 3:7, 4:9,21; Titus 3:12; Hebrews 8:8, 10:37, 13:23; 2 Peter 3:3; 1 John 2:18, 4:2-3 (3); 2 John 1:7,10,12; 3 John 1:10; Revelation 1:4, 1:8, 2:5, 2:16, 3:10-11 (2), 4:8, 6:1, 6:3, 6:5, 6:7, 6:17, 9:12, 11:17-18 (2), 14:7, 16:15 (2), 18:10 (2), 19:7, 22:20
    came, 198

    Matthew 2:9,21,23, 4:13, 7:25,27, 8:2, 9:1,10,18,23, 10:34, 11:18-19 (2), 12:42, 13:4,25, 14:33-34 (2), 15:25,29,39, 16:13, 18:31, 19:1, 20:9-10 (2),28, 21:19,32, 24:39, 25:10-11 (2),36,39, 26:43,47, 27:57, 28:1,11,13; Mark 1:9,14,40,45, 2:17, 3:8,31, 4:4, 5:1,27,33,35, 6:1,29,53, 7:1,25,31, 8:10, 9:7,14,33, 10:45-46 (2),50, 11:13 (2), 12:42, 14:3,16,32, 15:43, 16:2; Luke 1:59, 2:16,27,51, 3:3,12, 4:16,42, 5:7,32, 6:17, 7:33, 8:35,41,47, 10:32-33 (2), 11:31, 13:6, 15:17,20,25, 16:21, 17:27, 18:3, 19:5,18,20, 22:7, 24:1,23; John 1:7,11,39, 3:2,22, 4:26-27 (2),30,46, 6:23-24 (2), 7:45,50, 8:2,14,42, 10:7-8 (2), 11:17,19,29,45, 12:1,9,27-28 (2),47, 18:37, 19:32-33 (2),38-39 (3), 20:3-4 (2),8,18-19 (2),24,26, 21:8; Acts 7:11, 8:36,40, 9:21, 10:29, 11:5, 12:10, 13:12-13 (2), 13:51, 14:24, 15:30, 16:39, 17:1,13, 19:1 (2),6,18, 20:2,6,14-15 (3), 21:1,8, 22:11,13, 27:8, 28:13,16; Romans 7:9; 1 Corinthians 2:1 (2); 2 Corinthians 1:23, 2:3, 2:12, 11:9; Galatians 1:21, 2:12, 3:23; Ephesians 2:17; 1 Thessalonians 3:6; 1 Timothy 1:15; 1 John 5:6; 3 John 1:3; Revelation 5:7, 7:13-14 (2), 8:3, 17:1, 21:9
    cometh, 97

    Matthew 3:11, 8:9, 13:19, 18:7, 21:5,9,40, 23:39, 24:44,46, 25:6,13,19, 26:36,40,45; Mark 1:7, 4:15, 5:22,38, 6:48, 8:22,38, 9:12, 10:1, 11:9-10 (2), 13:35, 14:17,37,41,66; Luke 3:16, 6:47, 7:8, 8:12,49, 11:25, 12:36-37 (2),40,43,54, 13:35, 14:10,31, 15:6, 17:20, 18:8, 19:38; John 1:9,15,30, 3:8,20-21 (2),31 (2), 4:5,7,21,23,25, 6:35 (2),37,45, 7:27,31,42, 9:4, 11:38, 12:13,15,22, 14:6 (2),30, 16:2,25,32, 18:3, 20:1-2 (2),6, 21:13; Acts 13:25, 18:21; 2 Corinthians 11:4; Colossians 3:6 (2); 1 Thessalonians 5:2; Hebrews 6:7; Jude 1:14; Revelation 1:7, 11:14, 17:10
    coming, 27

    Matthew 16:28, 24:30,48, 25:27, 26:64; Mark 6:31, 13:26,36, 14:62, 15:21; Luke 12:45, 18:5, 19:23, 21:27, 23:26,29; John 1:27,29,47, 5:7,25,28, 10:12, 11:20, 12:12; Romans 15:22; 2 Corinthians 13:1
    went, 11

    Matthew 12:9, 13:36, 14:12; Mark 3:19; Luke 2:44, 14:1; John 4:45, 6:17; Acts 4:23, 28:14; Hebrews 11:8
    comest, 3

    Matthew 3:14; Luke 23:42; 2 Timothy 4:13
    entered, 2

    Mark 1:29; Acts 18:7
    go, 2

    Matthew 14:29; John 21:3
    resorted, 2

    Mark 2:13; John 10:41
    accompanied, 1

    Acts 11:12
    appear, 1

    Acts 22:30
    brought, 1

    Mark 4:21
    camest, 1

    Acts 9:17
    fallen, 1

    Philippians 1:12
    grew, 1

    Mark 5:26
    lighting, 1

    Matthew 3:16
    next, 1

    Acts 13:44
    passing, 1

    Acts 5:15
    set, 1

    Acts 19:27​

    The words “proceeded forth”, contextually locally:

    Let's consider the immediate context of John 8 KJB, and look at some of the root words already identified, along with a few others:

    John 8:2 KJB - And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came [G2064] unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

    John 8:14 KJB - Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came [G2064], and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come [G2064], and whither I go.

    John 8:16 KJB - And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent [G3992] me.

    John 8:18 KJB - I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent [G3992] me beareth witness of me.

    John 8:20 KJB - These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come [G2064].

    John 8:21 KJB - Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come [G2064].

    John 8:22 KJB - Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come [G2064].

    John 8:23 KJB - And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from [G1537] above: ye are of this world; I am not of [G1537] this world.

    John 8:24 KJB - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [εγω ειμι] he, ye shall die in your sins.

    John 8:26 KJB - I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent [G3992] me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

    John 8:28 KJB - Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [εγω ειμι] he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

    John 8:29 KJB - And he that sent [G3992] me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

    John 8:35 KJB - And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever [εις τον αιωνα].

    John 8:42 KJB - Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth [G1831] and came [G2240] from God; neither came [G2064] I of myself, but he sent me.

    John 8:44 KJB - Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of [G1537] your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of [G1537] his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    John 8:46 KJB - Which of [G1537] you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

    John 8:47 KJB - He that is of [G1537] God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of [G1537] God.

    John 8:58 KJB - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am [εγω ειμι].

    John 8:59 KJB - Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of [G1537] the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.​

    The words “proceeded forth”, do not indicate anything of coming into existence from non-existence as a person/being, nor of a 'birth' from something else in these passages. The word [G1080, γεγεννημεθα] “born” is only used once in the entire passage of John 8 KJB, and is used of a spiritual meaning, see John 8:31-41 KJB.

    If by the words “proceeded forth”, are meant [they are not] to teach that the Son of God came into existence from out of the Father's bosom at some point in eternity past by some inexplicable means known only to the Father, and then was sent by the Father into the world; then such who advocate this erroneous teaching have a serious hurdle to overcome, in that they must then also teach that the Son goes back to that previous condition from which He “proceeded forth” from after returning to the Father in Heaven, because the texts are explicit. Think also of this text as well:

    John 1:18 KJB - No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
    These passages indicate in every text an already existing person/s [the Son, or others] 'coming from' a person/place to another person/place like as unto a messenger, ambassador, representation, etc, see vs 59 - “of”, and even satan represents himself, see vs 44, “of” (x2), or going from one time to another time, see vs 20, “not yet come” [ie, not yet arrived].

    See also closely in relation to the Son of the Father in Heaven:

    vss 14,42 - “I came”, “I come [from]”, “came” (x2)

    vs 23 - “from, of”;

    vss 16,18,26,29 - the Father “sent” [the Son];

    vss 21,22 - the pharisees could not “come”.
    These texts also reveal that Jesus is the “I AM”, not the person of the Father, but that of the Son, that spake unto Abraham and existed eternally before Abraham. The very phrase “I AM” [εγω ειμι] is proof against all such erroneous assertions in attempting to make the words “proceeded from” in regards the Son having come into existence at any point in eternity past. He cannot ever be the “I AM” if ever there was a point in eternity in which the Son was not. He would have to be named the “I came to be” if He had [but He hasn't]. Yet, again we see in vs 35 – that “the Son abideth ever”, which means, “the Son exists in the eternity”.​

    The words “proceeded forth”, contextually globally:

    "proceedeth" [Genesis 24:50] is connected to:

    "answered and said" [Genesis 24:50] and "speak unto" [Genesis 24:50], and earlier connected to "cometh forth to" [Genesis 24:43], and "whom the LORD hath appointed out" [Genesis 24:44], and "speaking in my heart" [Genesis 24:45]
    "proceed" [Exodus 25:35] is connected with:

    "out of" [Exodus 25:35], "come out of the sides of ... out of the one side ... out of the other side" [Exodus 25:32] and "come out of" [Exodus 25:33]
    "proceedeth", "proceeded" [Numbers 30:2,12] is connected to:

    "uttered ought out" and "uttered" [Numbers 30:6,8]
    "proceeded" [Numbers 32:24] is connected to:

    "and said" [Numbers 21:16]
    "proceedeth" [Deuteronomy 8:3] is connected to:

    "commandments" [Deuteronomy 8:1,2], and "every word that ... out of the mouth of the LORD" [Deuteronomy 8:3] and see the parallel in Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4
    "proceed" [Joshua 6:10] connected to:

    "commanded ... saying ... shout ... any noise with ... voice ... word ... out of your mouth ... shout ... shout" [Joshua 6:10], and "shout with a great shout" [Joshua 6:5], "shout" [Joshua 6:16], "shouted ... shouted with a great shout" [Joshua 6:20]
    "proceeded" out of thy mouth [Judges 11:36] is connected to:

    "opened thy mouth" [Judges 11:36], and "opened my mouth unto" [Judges 11:35], and "his vow which he vowed" [Judges 11:39], and "vowed a vow unto" [Judges 11:30], the more interested connection is the vow deals with an "only child" [Judges 11:34] "came out" [Judges 11:34] from her Father's House [Judges 11:34], even that "which cometh forth of the doors of my house" [Judges 11:31]
    "proceedeth" [1 Samuel 24:13] is connected to:

    "as saith the proverb of the ancients", and "from" [1 Samuel 24:13], and even "speaking these words", "voice" and "voice" [1 Samuel 24:16], see also Ecclesiastes 10:5
    "proceed" [2 Samuel 7:12] is connected to:

    "thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels" [2 Samuel 7:12], see also "I will be his father, and he shall be my son" [2 Samuel 7:14] and the parallel [Hebrews 1:5; 1 Chronicles 17:13, 28:6; Psalms 89:20-37]
    "proceeded" [Job 36:1] is connected with:

    "said" [Job 36:1], and "my [Elihu's] words" [Job 36:4], and see also the connection with God's own words, even "the sound that goeth out of his mouth" [Job 37:2], "a voice roareth" [Job 37:4], "God thundereth marvellously with his voice" [Job 37:5], and back to Elihu, "that I speak, if a man speak" [Job 37:20]
    "proceed" [Job 40:5] is connected with:

    "answered ... said", [Job 40:3], "answer ... mouth" [Job 40:4], "spoken ... answer" [Job 40:5]
    "proceedeth" [Ecclesiastes 10:5], see also:

    "proceed" [Isaiah 29:14] meaning:

    to do more, or once again the "marvellous work", "wonder" [miracles]
    "proceed" [Isaiah 51:4] is connected to:

    "hearken ... give ear ... a law ... from me [God] ... my judgment" [Isaiah 51:4],and "my salvation is gone forth" [Isaiah 51:5]
    "proceed" [Jeremiah 9:3] is connected to:

    "their tongues" [Jeremiah 9:3], "slanders" [Jeremiah 9:4], "deceive .. will not speak truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies ..." [Jeremiah 9:5], "their tongue is as an arrow shot out; it speaketh deceit: one speaketh ... with his mouth, but in heart ..." [Jeremiah 9:8]
    "proceed" [Jeremiah 30:19] connected to:

    "out of them ... thanksgiving and the voice of" [Jeremiah 30:19]
    "proceed" [Jeremiah 30:21] connected to:

    "from the midst of ... draw near ... approach unto ... approach unto" [Jeremiah 30:21]
    "proceedeth" [Lamentations 3:38] connected with:

    "Out of the mouth of the Most High" [Lamentations 3:38]
    "proceedeth" [Habakkuk 1:4] connected with:

    the words "judgment ... go forth", "judgment" [Habakkuk 1:4] and "law" [Habakkuk 1:4], see also "judgment" [Habakkuk 1:7]
    "proceeed" [Habakkuk 1:7] see:

    Habakkuk 1:4, etc.
    "proceedeth" [Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4] is connected to:

    "commandments" [Deuteronomy 8:1,2], and "every word that ... out of the mouth of the LORD" [Deuteronomy 8:3] and see the parallel in [Deuteronomy 8:3]
    "proceed" [Matthew 15:18] connected to:

    "out of the mouth come forth from the heart" [Matthew 15:18], see also "from within, out of the heart of" [Matthew 15:19], and see also Mark 7:21
    "proceed" [Matthew 15:19], see:

    "proceed" [Mark 7:21] connected to:

    "from within, out of the heart ... thoughts" [Mark 7:21], and "that which cometh out of the man" [Mark 7:20]
    "proceeded" [Luke 4:22] is connected with:

    the words "the gracious words which ... out of his mouth" [Luke 4:22], and "began to say unto" [Luke 4:21] and "he said unto" [Luke 4:23] and "he said" [Luke 4:24] and connected to the hearing thereof, "in your ears" [Luke 4:21], "when they heard these" [Luke 4:28]
    "proceedeth" [John 15:26] is connected to:

    the "Spirit of truth" [John 15:26], and "come", "send unto you [proceedeth] from the Father", "he shall testify of me [Jesus]" [John 15:26] and "witness" [John 15:27]
    "proceeded" [Acts 12:3] is connected to:

    continuing action/motion, "take ... also" [Acts 12:3] and "stretch forth" [Acts 12:1] and later to "apprehended" and "bring forth" [Acts 12:4] and "brought ... forth" [Acts 12:6]
    "proceed" [Ephesians 4:29] connected to:

    "communication ... out of your mouth ... hearers" [Ephesians 4:29], "evil speaking" [Ephesians 4:31]
    "proceed" [2 Timothy 3:9] meaning to:

    'advance forward', or 'go on', connected to "withstood Moses ... resist the truth ... corrupt minds ..." [2 Timothy 3:8], "my [Paul's] doctrine [teaching]" [2 Timothy 3:10], "deceiving, and being deceived" [2 Timothy 3:13]
    "proceedeth" [James 3:10] is connected to:

    "Out of the same mouth" [James 3:10] and "in word" [James 3:2], "mouths" [James 3:3], "the tongue" [James 3:5,6,8], and "a fountain send forth" [thus issuing/yielding] [James 3:11], "fountain ... yield" [James 3:12]
    "proceeded" [Revelation 4:5] is connected with:

    "out of" [Revelation 4:5], see also the parallel "a great voice out of ... from the throne, saying" [Revelation 16:17] and "voices" [Revelation 16:18]
    "proceeded" [Revelation 19:21] connected with:

    "out of his mouth" [Revelation 19:21], see also "out of his mouth went" [Revelation 1:16]
    "proceeding" [Revelation 22:1] from:

    "river of water of life ... out of the throne of God, and of the Lamb" [Revelation 22:1], see also "These waters issue out toward ... and go down into ... and go into ... brought forth into ..." [Ezekiel 47:8], "whithersoever the rivers shall come ... these waters shall come thither ... the river cometh." [Ezekiel 47:9] and "their waters they issued out of the sanctuary" [Ezekiel 47:12]
    The overwhelming majority of the English word “proceed” and its forms thereof [/s/ed/ing/eth] throughout the scripture [KJB] generally deals with words, commands, sayings, and those things being spoken or issuing out of the mouth that which is from the heart/mind/spirit. The idea is the coming from one place, issuing forth, and coming/going forth into another, such as the water that issues from the throne of God. Jesus is the water of Life, the fountainhead, and He came from the Throne of His Father, being sent as the “Word” of reconciliation from the heart of the Father to the people [waters] of the earth.

    The context is clear from john 8:42 KJB [see Mark 1:38; John 13:3, 16:27,28,30, 17:8; see 1 Corinthians 14:36] that it speaks to Jesus coming from the presence of the Father in Heaven, and being sent unto the earth as the highest messenger, the greatest apostle [Hebrews 3:1 KJB], the most exalted ambassador, the most merciful stayer of the execution of men. We see this repeated in other texts also:

    John 16:27 KJB - For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out [G1831] from God.

    John 16:28 - I came forth [G1831] from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

    John 16:29 KJB - His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

    John 16:30 KJB - Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth [G1831] from God.
    Notice the parallelism again, as in John 8:24 KJB, and it is not metaphorical [John 16:29 KJB]:

    [A1] “I came forth from the Father ...”

    [B1] “... and am come into the world ...”
    [A2] “... again, I leave the world ...”

    [B2] “... and go to the Father.”
    See another:

    John 13:3 KJB - Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come [G1831] from God, and went to God;
    See the contrast:

    [A1] “... he [Jesus] was come from God ...”

    [B1] “... and went to God”
    Another:

    John 17:8 KJB - For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out [G1831] from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
    The alpha and omega, in the context of the Father giving words unto Jesus for the people of the earth:

    [A1] “... have known surely that I came out from thee ...”

    [A2] “... and they have believed that thou didst send me.”
    To receive Jesus, is to receive the “word” sent forth, that came out from, the heart of the Father in Heaven. Similar texts and ideas are also seen in:

    Mark 1:38 KJB - And he said unto them, Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth [G1831].

    1 Corinthians 14:36 KJB - What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
    The word G1831 “exerchomai” in these contexts emphasizes the idea of a separation of two persons for a purpose; a going from the presence of the Father in Heaven unto the earth, Whom the Son was later to return unto, as it is written, “and goeth unto God”.

    “Exelthein para” in John 16:27, 17:8 KJB is going from beside, leaving the side of [going from the right hand of the Father in mission/commission], and speaks of the personal intimate fellowship with God the Father as an equal.

    “Exelthein ek”, thus emphasizes intimate communion between two or more persons, and as such when the statement is made, “I came forth out of”, it gives the picture of leaving the intimate embrace, the bosom of, the Father, and so see John 17:5 KJB, for Jesus was “there” in Heaven in that sweet embrace, “with” the Father, and now He is “here”, in earth, with us, E/Immanuel, the Go with us, as it was written, “Lo, I come ...”, and afterwards, having completed the mission here, returned to where He ever was before, at the right hand of the Father.

    For further texts, see John 7:28,29, 12:49, 17:25; Galatians 4:4; 1 John 4:9-10, 1 John 4:14 KJB, and continue with John 16:27,28 KJB, “I came out from God”, [ie., I left the immediate presence of my Father], John 17:8 KJB, “I cam out from thee” [ie., I left your immediate presence], and see also the water “proceeding out of” in Revelation 22:1 KJB.

    Some will say that the word can mean 'to give birth'. This is all true, as the word can mean to 'issue', to 'come forth from out of the womb', or to 'issue' from another location, such as blood, or man's seed. The idea does not so much carry with it of coming into existence, as it does of coming from one place to another, that which already existed. For instance, in the 'birth' process, the child was already in existence in the womb from before. Never-the-less, though there are instances in which the same word is used to describe 'birth', it is not so much doing that in the NT [and in only a single location that I am personally aware of; Hebrews 7:5 KJB, and definitely not in John 8:42 KJB.
    The words in the so-called LXX and 'birth':

    In the so-called LXX, it G1831, is used in 538 verses, beginning in Genesis 4:16 "Cain went out from the presence of the LORD", ending in Malachi 4:2 "ye shall go forth".

    There are those which say that the phrase means to 'birth' and 'issuing' forth from either woman or man, and in certain contexts, which are clearly given, it most certainly does, and in the so-called LXX [a work of Origen*, ask for details], and here those are, so that there is no room for accusation of hiding anything, but that all may come to the light:

    LXX Genesis 10:14 "Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim"

    LXX Genesis 15:4 [speaking of Isaac of Abraham] "he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels"

    LXX Genesis 17:6 [speaking of Abraham's descendants] "kings shall come out of thee."

    LXX Genesis 25:25 [speaking of Esau/Edom] "the first came out red"

    LXX Genesis 25:26 [speaking of Jacob] "after that came his brother out"

    LXX Genesis 35:11 [God speaking to Jacob/Israel] "kings shall come out of thy loins"

    LXX Genesis 38:28 "This came out first"

    LXX Genesis 38:29 "his brother came out"

    LXX Genesis 38:30 "afterward came out his brother"

    LXX Genesis 46:26 [children of Jacob/Israel] "which came out of his loins"

    LXX Exodus 21:22 "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her"

    LXX Leviticus 15:16 "And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him"

    LXX Leviticus 15:32 "This is the law of him that hath an issue, and of him whose seed goeth from him, and is defiled therewith;"

    LXX Leviticus 22:4 "or a man whose seed goeth from him"

    LXX Deuteronomy 2:23 "the Caphtorims, which came forth out of Caphtor"

    LXX Deuteronomy 23:10 "If there be among you any man, that is not clean by reason of uncleanness that chanceth him by night, then shall he go abroad out of the camp, he shall not come within the camp:"

    LXX Deuteronomy 28:57 "And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear:"

    LXX 2 Samuel 16:11 "Behold, my son, which came forth of my bowels"

    LXX 1 Kings 8:19 "thy son that shall come forth out of thy loins"

    LXX 2 Kings 20:28 "And of thy sons that shall issue from thee, which thou shalt beget"

    LXX 2 Kings 23:17 "It is the sepulchre of the man of God, which came from Judah"

    LXX 1 Chronicles 2:53 "the Mishraites; of them came the Zareathites"

    LXX 2 Chronicles 6:9 "thy son which shall come forth out of thy loins"

    LXX Job 1:21 "Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither"

    LXX Job 3:11 "Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?"

    LXX Ecclesiastes 5:15 "As he came forth of his mother's womb, naked shall he return to go as he came"

    LXX Isaiah 11:1 "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:"

    LXX Isaiah 14:29 "Out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent."

    LXX Jeremiah 1:5 "before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee"

    LXX Jeremiah 20:18 "Wherefore came I forth out of the womb to see labour and sorrow, that my days should be consumed with shame?"

    LXX Micah 4:10 "Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city"

    LXX Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."
    Those are the only references in all of the so-called LXX which speak in those terms. Let us notice that out of 538 vss, only 32 are given in such a context [I looked them all up, and even gave a few which might suggest such a thing]. What then is the percentage, all together?

    From the KJB NT, out of 257 times the G1831 is translated, only 1 time is it in reference to 'issuing':

    KJB NT = 1/257 = .0038 % or roughly 1/3rd of 1% [Hebrews 7:5 KJB]
    From the so-called LXX [OT], out of 538 times the G1831 is give, only about 32 times is it in reference to 'birth' or 'issuing' from a woman or man:

    LXX* OT = 32/538 = .059% or roughly 6% [texts cited above in relevance]
    The grand total percentage of all together, that G1831 appears 795 times, only about 33 times is it in reference to 'birth' and 'issuing' from a woman or man:

    KJB NT + LXX* [OT] = 33/795 = .042 % or roughly 4%
    Other useful connections, that might be made when comparing the KJB to the so-called LXX, can be found:

    LXX Genesis 24:50 "proceedeth from the LORD"

    LXX Genesis 27:30 [Jacob leaving his father Isaac] "Jacob was yet scarce gone out from the presence of Isaac his father"

    LXX Genesis 41:46 "And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt."

    LXX Genesis 44:28 [speaking about Joseph leaving Israel] "And the one went out from me, and I said, Surely he is torn in pieces; and I saw him not since:"

    LXX Genesis 47:10 "And Jacob blessed Pharaoh, and went out from before Pharaoh."

    LXX Numbers 30:2 "that proceedeth out of his mouth."

    LXX Numbers 30:12 "whatsoever proceeded out of her lips"

    LXX 1 Samuel 24:13 "As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: but mine hand shall not be upon thee."

    LXX 1 Kings 22:21,22; 2 Chronicles 18:20,21; Job 1:12, 2:7 "there came forth a spirit"

    LXX Psalms 17:2 "Let my sentence come forth from thy presence; let thine eyes behold the things that are equal."

    LXX Isaiah 37:36 "Then the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses."

    LXX Isaiah 42:13 "The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies."

    LXX Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

    LXX Isaiah 48:3 "I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass."

    LXX Isaiah 51:4 "Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people."

    LXX Isaiah 51:5 "My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust."

    LXX Isaiah 55:11 "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

    LXX Habakkuk 3:13 "Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah."

    LXX Zechariah 14:3 "Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle."

    LXX Daniel 9:22 "And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding."

    LXX Daniel 9:23 "At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision."
    Final texts of interest:

    Matthew 2:6KJB - "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel."
    "brought forth" [as a child birth] - Micah 5:3 KJB, H3205, is Yalad, not H4163, “goings forth”, Micah 5:2 KJB

    Matthew 13:3 KJB - "went forth to sow"

    Mark 4:3 KJB - "went out a sower to sow"

    Luke 8:5 KJB - "A sower went out to sow"

    Luke 17:29 KJB - Lot "went out" of Sodom, he left Sodom.

    Acts 15:24 KJB - "went out from us", does not make them of the same person, see also 1 John 2:19

    1 Corinthians 14:36 KJB - "What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?"

    Mark 1:38 KJB - "And he said unto them, Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth."

    Matthew 13:49 KJB - Angels "come forth"

    Hebrews 7:5 KJB - "... though they come [exeleluthotas] out [ek] of the loins of Abraham:", but contrast to Hebrews 7:3 as without [human] father, without [divine] mother, etc.

    Acts 12:17 KJB - "...he departed, and went into another place."​

    The coming from the bosom of God:

    John 1:18 KJB - No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
    What does being in, coming from, going to the “bosom” mean? It means to be in the embrace of the arms of another, to leave that embrace for a period of time, and to return to that embrace at a later time, such as like unto:

    1 Corinthians 7:5 KJB - Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
    The Son parted from the immediate presence and embrace of the Father for a time. During that time Jesus had fasted in the wilderness, and was always watchful unto prayer during His mission here on earth, that He might not be lead astray from the love He has for His Father in Heaven.

    Consider also the following texts:

    Luke 6:38 KJB - Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

    Luke 16:22 KJB - And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

    Luke 16:23 KJB - And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    John 13:23 KJB - Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
    The meaning is plain, and since Jesus is the 'father' of John, as he is a disciple, a child of Jesus Isaiah 8:16,18 and Hebrews 2:13 KJB, it is like unto a parallel with the Son and the Father. Consider an overall view of how this phrase is used:

    Deuteronomy 13:6, 28:54,56 KJB "wife of thy bosom", "wife of his bosom", "husband of her bosom",

    is to be of 'intimate embrace'; see Genesis 16:5, 2 Samuel 12:8; Proverbs 5:20; Micah 7:5 KJB, or,

    in closeness of embrace; see 1 Kings 1:2, 3:20; Luke 16:22,23; John 13:23 KJB,

    see also an intimate picture of a Father carrying a child, see Numbers 11:12 KJB,

    or a motherly embrace, see Ruth 4:16; 1 Kings 17:19; Lamentations 2:12 KJB,

    or a closeness of hand/object to chest; see Exodus 4:6,7; Psalms 74:11, 129:7; Proverbs 6:27, 17:23, 19:24, 21:14, 26:15; Luke 6:38 KJB, or,

    related to thoughts of the mind/heart [see Adam's sin, Job 31:33 KJB,

    or prayer, Psalms 35:13 KJB,

    or other thoughts, Psalms 79:12, 89:50; Ecclesiastes 7:9; Isaiah 65:6,7; Jeremiah 32:18 KJB,

    as a sheep in the arms, Isaiah 40:11 KJB.
    Now look at the most precious text in 2 Samuel 12:3 KJB, in regards a "Lamb" growing up together with, and lay in the bosom; for Jesus is the Lamb of the Father. Such tenderness the Father has for His Son, the eternal Lamb. Jesus is that greatest Disciple of the Father [see [G1321] “didasko”, “taught” of the Father in John 8:28 KB], and the greatest Apostle of the Father, and the one who was “sent” [“apostello”; Hebrews 3:1 KJB]. Just as the Father has not left Jesus alone [John 8:29 KJB], so Jesus has not left us alone [John 17 KJB].

    Sin has separated between us and our heavenly Father:

    Isaiah 59:2 KJB - But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
    As a heart is broken, divided, so has sin cause the rupture in the heart of God, and this was shown at the cross, where Jesus died of a broken heart [Psalms 31:12, 69:20, 109:16 KJB], but through the sacrifice of Christ Jesus, the balm of Gilead is applied, and the heart restored to union again, by the greatest Physician.

    Through Christ Jesus, we, who were once sinners, are purchased [bought] and to be brought back [Leviticus 25 KJB] into the arms of the Father's embrace, as we are all received in such everlasting arms, in the now glorified humanity of Christ Jesus. At-one-ment.
    The definitional proof is in the text of John 8:42 KJB [shortcut answer]:

    John 8:42 KJB - Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
    Look at this text in its very structure:

    [A1] “... for I [The Son] proceeded forth [from the Father]”

    [B1] “... and came from God [the Father] ...”

    [B2] “... neither came I [the Son] of myself ..."​

    [A2] “... be he [the Father] sent me [the Son].”

    The words “proceedeth forth” means to be “sent”/”depart” from someone else, or to go/come from one place to/into another, or to go on a mission trip at the request of another as Jesus had left the everlasting arms and embrace of [came forth from] His Father in Heaven, and came to this world, by the desire/will of the Father. It can also mean to issue out of, in the sense that Jesus is the “word” of the Father sent forth into the world, and out of the loving abundance of the heart of the Father, He sent forth His loving Word. God is the interpreter of His own words [Genesis 40:8 KJB], line upon line [Isaiah 28:10,13 KJB], comparing spiritual things with spiritual [1 Corinthians 2:13 KJB]. We can see this from other places in which the word is translated:

    John 1:43 KJB - The day following Jesus would go forth [G1831] into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.

    Matthew 8:28 KJB - And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming [G1831] out [G1537] of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

    Mark 9:30 KJB - And they departed [G1831] thence, and passed through Galilee; and he would not that any man should know it.

    Luke 5:27 KJB - And after these things he went forth [G1831], and saw a publican, named Levi, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he said unto him, Follow me.

    Acts 1:21 KJB - Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in [G1525] and out [G1831] among us,
    Etc.

    See also related texts, with similar meaning:

    see also “from God” [1 Samuel 16:15,16,23, 18:10 KJB], satan “evil spirit from God”

    see also “from God” [Luke 1:26 KJB] “the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto”

    see also “from God” [John 1:6 KJB] “a man [John the Baptist] sent from God”

    see also “from God” [John 3:2 KJB] “Jesus ... a teacher come from God”

    see also “from God” [John 16:27, 17:8 KJB] “I [Jesus] came out [G1831] from [God]”

    see also “from God” [John 16:30 KJB] “thou [Jesus] camest forth [G1831] from God”

    see also “from God” [Revelation 11:11 KJB] “the Spirit of life from God”

    see also “from God” [Revelation 21:10 KJB] “the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God”
    Jesus was born of the Holy Ghost, made of a woman, made under the law of fleshly heredity [Galatians 4:4 KJB], after the law of kind/seed [Genesis 1 KJB], and also anointed of the Father, and sent into the world:

    Luke 1:35 KJB - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
    In this sense, the Son is said to be 'born' of the Holy Ghost/Spirit, 'born' from above, the thoughts of heart/mind/spirit ever dwelling in/upon the Heavenly [John 3:13; Philippians 2:5, 3:19-20; Colossians 3:1-2 KJB, etc] and never the carnal, and the Son is 'born' of the flesh of fallen sinful mankind, but always keep in mind:

    John 3:6 KJB - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    Jesus, upon the throne with His Father, came from the right hand of the Father, to earth, and returned after completing His redemptive mission trip, back to this same position which He had from eternity, and sat down at the right hand of His Father.​

    The connection that some make between John 8:42 KJB and Proverbs 8:22-31 KJB; the 'pioneers' and more:

    John 8:42 KJB - Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
    This particular text is utilized in combination with Proverbs 8:22-31 KJB. There is a correct connection, and there is a incorrect connection. We will consider both.

    From a past historical, here is what “Arius” taught, as cited by Alonzo Trevier Jones [A.T. Jones], in which he demonstrates the error of “Arius” and those who take that position:

    "... 11. Arius said: -- {1898 ATJ, GEP 496.5} [497] We say and believe, and have taught, and do teach, that the Son is not unbegotten, nor in any way unbegotten, even in part; and that he does not derive His subsistence from any matter; but that by His own will and counsel He has subsisted before time, and before ages, as perfect God, and only begotten and unchangeable, and that He existed not before He was begotten, or created, or purposed, or established. For He was not unbegotten. We are persecuted because we say that the Son had a beginning, but that God was without beginning. This is really the cause of our persecution, and likewise, because we say He is from nothing. And this we say, because He is neither part of God, nor of any subjacent matter." 5 {1898 ATJ, GEP 497.1} …" - The Great Empires of Prophecy, from Babylon to the Fall of Rome, p. 497.1 (Alonzo T. Jones)

    See also:

    The Two Republics, or Rome and the United States of America, p. 333.3 (Alonzo T. Jones)
    Thus, some of the 'pioneers', when re-studying the matter from scripture, erred, and wrested the scripture in its plain meanings:

    Uriah Smith said in regards John 8:42, and the origins of the Son of God:

    "... God alone is without beginning. At the earliest epoch when a beginning could be, - a period so remote that to finite minds it is essentially eternity, - appeared the Word. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. This uncreated Word was the Being, who, in the fulness of time, was made flesh, and dwelt among us. His beginning was not like that of any other being in the universe. It is set forth in the mysterious expressions, "his [God's] only begotten Son" (John 3:16; 1John 4:9), "the only begotten of the Father" (John 1:14), and, "I proceeded forth and came from God." John 8:42. Thus it appears that by some divine impulse or process, not creation, known only to Omniscience, and possible only to Omnipotence, the Son of God appeared. And then the Holy Spirit (by an infirmity of translation called .. the Holy Ghost"), the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the divine afflatus and medium of their power, representative of them both (Ps.139:7), was in existence also. {1898 UrS, LUJ 10.1} …" - 1898 UrS, LUJ 10.1

    "... With the Son, the evolution of deity, as deity, ceased. ..." - 1898 UrS, LUJ 13.1

    "... [the Son, Jesus was] derived from God ..." - 1898 UrS, LUJ 17.2

    "... the Son came into existence in a different manner, as he is called "the only begotten" of the Father. It would seem utterly inappropriate to apply this expression to any being created in the ordinary sense of that term. ..." - 1897 UrS, DAR 400.2

    "... But while as the Son he does not possess a co- eternity of past existence with the Father, the beginning of his existence, as the begotten of the Father, antedates the entire work of creation ..." - 1897 UrS, DAR 430.1
    E.J. Waggoner cites John 8:42 KJB, rightly showing that sons of God are of faith, not flesh, as the context of John 8:42 reveals, and yet still says the erroneous conclusion [as the Watch Tower and Tract Society, the Jehovah's Witnesses do today, the spiritual children of Arius's ideology],

    "... He is the Son of God by birth; the only begotten Son of God. ..." - February 24, 1887 EJW, SITI 123.4

    "... We know that Christ "proceeded forth and came from God" (John 8:42), but it was so far back in the ages of eternity as to be far beyond the grasp of the mind of man. ..." - 1890 EJW, CHR 9.1

    "... but Christ is the Son of God by birth. ..." - 1890 EJW, CHR 12.1

    "... He has His abode there, and He is there as a part of the Godhead, as surely when on earth as when in heaven. ..." - 1890 EJW, CHR 15.2

    "... He is the first-born of all creation; when He was begotten, "in the days of eternity," 1 all things were virtually created, because all creation is in Him. The substance of all creation, and the power by which all things should be made to appear, were in Christ. This is a statement of the mystery that only the mind of God can comprehend. ..." - 1900 EJW, EVCO 26.9
    James M. Stephenson, goes even further into the error and says that the Son of God is “created”:

    “... I will conclude the evidence upon this point by quoting one more passage. Paul says, "And again, when he bringeth the first-begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him." Heb. i, 6. He must have been his Son before he could send him into the world. In verse 2, the Father [133] declares that he made the worlds by the same Son he is here represented as sending into the world. His Son must have existed before he created the worlds; and he must have been begotten before he existed; hence the begetting here spoken of, must refer to his Divine nature, and in reference to his order, he is the first-begotten; hence as a matter of necessity he must have been "the first born of every creature." Col. i, 15. "The first born of every creature." Creature signifies creation; hence to be the first born of every creature, (creation) he must be a created being; and as such, his life and immortality must depend upon the Father's will, just as much as angels, or redeemed men: and as the Father has given his Son to have life in himself, so his Son will give this life to all his children. His invitation is to all, "Come unto me and I will give you life." The glorious promise for all the pious dead is, that their lives are hid with Christ in God, and when he who is their life shall appear, then shall they appear with him in glory. {1854 JMS, ATO 132.2} ...” - The Atonement, p. 132.2 (James M. Stephenson)

    See also:

    The Advent Review, and Sabbath Herald, vol. 6 November 14, 1854, page 106 par. 4 (citing James M. Stephenson)
    That which is in red is gross error, and a misunderstanding of those phrases and texts, as we shall see in the detailed portion.

    Other 'pioneers' understood the texts and their meanings properly. Such persons were as sister White, James White [in his mature studies], Joseph Bates, A.T. Jones and others:

    Sister Ellen G. White said, in regards John 8:42:

    “... "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." {DA 463.1}

    When He spoke these words, Jesus was in the court of the temple specially connected with the services of the Feast of Tabernacles. In the center of this court rose two lofty standards, supporting lampstands of great size. After the evening sacrifice, all the lamps were kindled, shedding their light over Jerusalem. This ceremony was in commemoration of the pillar of light that guided Israel in the desert, and was also regarded as pointing to the coming of the Messiah. At evening when the lamps were lighted, the court was a scene of great rejoicing. Gray-haired men, the priests of the temple and the rulers of the people, united in the festive dances to the sound of instrumental music and the chants of the Levites. {DA 463.2}

    In the illumination of Jerusalem, the people expressed their hope of the Messiah's coming to shed His light upon Israel. But to Jesus the scene had a wider meaning. As the radiant lamps of the temple lighted up all about them, so Christ, the source of spiritual light, illumines the darkness of the world. Yet the symbol was imperfect. That great light which His own hand had set in the heavens was a truer representation of the glory of His mission. {DA 463.3}

    It was morning; the sun had just risen above the Mount of Olives, and its rays fell with dazzling brightness on the marble palaces, and [464] lighted up the gold of the temple walls, when Jesus, pointing to it, said, "I am the light of the world." {DA 463.4}

    By one who listened to these words, they were long afterward re-echoed in that sublime passage, "In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not." "That was the true light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:4, 5, R. V., 9. And long after Jesus had ascended to heaven, Peter also, writing under the illumination of the divine Spirit, recalled the symbol Christ had used: "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the daystar arise in your hearts." 2 Peter 1:19. {DA 464.1}

    In the manifestation of God to His people, light had ever been a symbol of His presence. At the creative word in the beginning, light had shone out of darkness. Light had been enshrouded in the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night, leading the vast armies of Israel. Light blazed with awful grandeur about the Lord on Mount Sinai. Light rested over the mercy seat in the tabernacle. Light filled the temple of Solomon at its dedication. Light shone on the hills of Bethlehem when the angels brought the message of redemption to the watching shepherds. {DA 464.2}

    God is light; and in the words, "I am the light of the world," Christ declared His oneness with God, and His relation to the whole human family. It was He who at the beginning had caused "the light to shine out of darkness." 2 Corinthians 4:6. He is the light of sun and moon and star. He was the spiritual light that in symbol and type and prophecy had shone upon Israel. But not to the Jewish nation alone was the light given. As the sunbeams penetrate to the remotest corners of the earth, so does the light of the Sun of Righteousness shine upon every soul. {DA 464.3}

    "That was the true light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." The world has had its great teachers, men of giant intellect and wonderful research, men whose utterances have stimulated thought, and opened to view vast fields of knowledge; and these men have been honored as guides and benefactors of their race. But there is One who stands higher than they. "As many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God." "No man hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him." John 1:12, 18. We can trace the line of the world's great teachers as far back as human records extend; but the [465] Light was before them. As the moon and the stars of the solar system shine by the reflected light of the sun, so, as far as their teaching is true, do the world's great thinkers reflect the rays of the Sun of Righteousness. Every gem of thought, every flash of the intellect, is from the Light of the world. In these days we hear much about "higher education." The true "higher education" is that imparted by Him "in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." "In Him was life; and the life was the light of men." Colossians 2:3; John 1:4. "He that followeth Me," said Jesus, "shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." {DA 464.4}

    In the words, "I am the light of the world," Jesus declared Himself the Messiah. The aged Simeon, in the temple where Christ was now teaching, had spoken of Him as "a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of Thy people Israel." Luke 2:32. In these words he was applying to Him a prophecy familiar to all Israel. By the prophet Isaiah, the Holy Spirit had declared, "It is too light a thing that Thou shouldest be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give Thee for a light to the Gentiles, that Thou mayest be My salvation unto the end of the earth." Isaiah 49:6, R. V. This prophecy was generally understood as spoken of the Messiah, and when Jesus said, "I am the light of the world," the people could not fail to recognize His claim to be the Promised One. {DA 465.1}

    To the Pharisees and rulers this claim seemed an arrogant assumption. That a man like themselves should make such pretensions they could not tolerate. Seeming to ignore His words, they demanded, "Who art Thou?" They were bent upon forcing Him to declare Himself the Christ. His appearance and His work were so at variance with the expectations of the people, that, as His wily enemies believed, a direct announcement of Himself as the Messiah would cause Him to be rejected as an impostor. {DA 465.2}

    But to their question, "Who art Thou?" Jesus replied, "Even that which I have also spoken unto you from the beginning." John 8:25, R.V. That which had been revealed in His words was revealed also in His character. He was the embodiment of the truths He taught. "I do nothing of Myself," He continued; "but as My Father hath taught Me, I speak these things. And He that sent Me is with Me: the Father hath not left Me alone; for I do always those things that please Him." He did not attempt to prove His Messianic claim, but showed His unity with God. If their minds had been open to God's love, they would have received Jesus. {DA 465.3}

    Among His hearers many were drawn to Him in faith, and to them He said, "if ye continue in My word, then are ye My disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." {DA 466.1}

    These words offended the Pharisees. The nation's long subjection to a foreign yoke, they disregarded, and angrily exclaimed, "We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest Thou, Ye shall be made free?" Jesus looked upon these men, the slaves of malice, whose thoughts were bent upon revenge, and sadly answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." They were in the worst kind of bondage,--ruled by the spirit of evil. {DA 466.2}

    Every soul that refuses to give himself to God is under the control of another power. He is not his own. He may talk of freedom, but he is in the most abject slavery. He is not allowed to see the beauty of truth, for his mind is under the control of Satan. While he flatters himself that he is following the dictates of his own judgment, he obeys the will of the prince of darkness. Christ came to break the shackles of sin-slavery from the soul. "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" sets us "free from the law of sin and death." Romans 8:2. {DA 466.3}

    In the work of redemption there is no compulsion. No external force is employed. Under the influence of the Spirit of God, man is left free to choose whom he will serve. In the change that takes place when the soul surrenders to Christ, there is the highest sense of freedom. The expulsion of sin is the act of the soul itself. True, we have no power to free ourselves from Satan's control; but when we desire to be set free from sin, and in our great need cry out for a power out of and above ourselves, the powers of the soul are imbued with the divine energy of the Holy Spirit, and they obey the dictates of the will in fulfilling the will of God. {DA 466.4}

    The only condition upon which the freedom of man is possible is that of becoming one with Christ. "The truth shall make you free;" and Christ is the truth. Sin can triumph only by enfeebling the mind, and destroying the liberty of the soul. Subjection to God is restoration to one's self,--to the true glory and dignity of man. The divine law, to which we are brought into subjection, is "the law of liberty." James 2:12. {DA 466.5}

    The Pharisees had declared themselves the children of Abraham. Jesus told them that this claim could be established only by doing the works of Abraham. The true children of Abraham would live, as he did, a life of obedience to God. They would not try to kill One who was speaking the truth that was given Him from God. In plotting [467] against Christ, the rabbis were not doing the works of Abraham. A mere lineal descent from Abraham was of no value. Without a spiritual connection with him, which would be manifested in possessing the same spirit, and doing the same works, they were not his children. {DA 466.6}

    This principle bears with equal weight upon a question that has long agitated the Christian world,--the question of apostolic succession. Descent from Abraham was proved, not by name and lineage, but by likeness of character. So the apostolic succession rests not upon the transmission of ecclesiastical authority, but upon spiritual relationship. A life actuated by the apostles' spirit, the belief and teaching of the truth they taught, this is the true evidence of apostolic succession. This is what constitutes men the successors of the first teachers of the gospel. {DA 467.1}

    Jesus denied that the Jews were children of Abraham. He said, "Ye do the deeds of your father." In mockery they answered, "We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God." These words, in allusion to the circumstances of His birth, were intended as a thrust against Christ in the presence of those who were beginning to believe on Him. Jesus gave no heed to the base insinuation, but said, "If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God." {DA 467.2}

    Their works testified of their relationship to him who was a liar and a murderer. "Ye are of your father the devil," said Jesus, "and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and stood not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. . . . Because I say the truth, ye believe Me not." John 8:44, 45, R. V. The fact that Jesus spoke the truth, and that with certainty, was why He was not received by the Jewish leaders. It was the truth that offended these self-righteous men. The truth exposed the fallacy of error; it condemned their teaching and practice, and it was unwelcome. They would rather close their eyes to the truth than humble themselves to confess that they had been in error. They did not love the truth. They did not desire it, even though it was truth. {DA 467.3}

    "Which of you convicteth [Revised Version] Me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe Me?" Day by day for three years His enemies had been following Christ, trying to find some stain in His character. Satan and all the confederacy of evil had been seeking to overcome Him; but they had found nothing in Him by which to gain an advantage. Even the devils were forced to confess, "Thou art the Holy One of God." Mark 1:24. Jesus lived the law in the sight of heaven, in the [468] sight of unfallen worlds, and in the sight of sinful men. Before angels, men, and demons, He had spoken, unchallenged, words that from any other lips would have been blasphemy: "I do always those things that please Him." {DA 467.4}

    The fact that although they could find no sin in Christ the Jews would not receive Him proved that they themselves had no connection with God. They did not recognize His voice in the message of His Son. They thought themselves passing judgment on Christ; but in rejecting Him they were pronouncing sentence upon themselves. "He that is of God," said Jesus, "heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." {DA 468.1}

    The lesson is true for all time. Many a man who delights to quibble, to criticize, seeking for something to question in the word of God, thinks that he is thereby giving evidence of independence of thought, and mental acuteness. He supposes that he is sitting in judgment on the Bible, when in truth he is judging himself. He makes it manifest that he is incapable of appreciating truths that originate in heaven, and that compass eternity. In presence of the great mountain of God's righteousness, his spirit is not awed. He busies himself with hunting for sticks and straws, and in this betrays a narrow and earthly nature, a heart that is fast losing its capacity to appreciate God. He whose heart has responded to the divine touch will be seeking for that which will increase his knowledge of God, and will refine and elevate the character. As a flower turns to the sun, that the bright rays may touch it with tints of beauty, so will the soul turn to the Sun of Righteousness, that heaven's light may beautify the character with the graces of the character of Christ. {DA 468.2}

    Jesus continued, drawing a sharp contrast between the position of the Jews and that of Abraham: "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad." {DA 468.3}

    Abraham had greatly desired to see the promised Saviour. He offered up the most earnest prayer that before his death he might behold the Messiah. And he saw Christ. A supernatural light was given him, and he acknowledged Christ's divine character. He saw His day, and was glad. He was given a view of the divine sacrifice for sin. Of this sacrifice he had an illustration in his own experience. The command came to him, "Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, . . . and offer him . . . for a burnt offering." Genesis 22:2. [469] Upon the altar of sacrifice he laid the son of promise, the son in whom his hopes were centered. Then as he waited beside the altar with knife upraised to obey God, he heard a voice from heaven saying, "Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou anything unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from Me." Genesis 22:12. This terrible ordeal was imposed upon Abraham that he might see the day of Christ, and realize the great love of God for the world, so great that to raise it from its degradation, He gave His only-begotten Son to a most shameful death. {DA 468.4}

    Abraham learned of God the greatest lesson ever given to mortal. His prayer that he might see Christ before he should die was answered. He saw Christ; he saw all that mortal can see, and live. By making an entire surrender, he was able to understand the vision of Christ, which had been given him. He was shown that in giving His only-begotten Son to save sinners from eternal ruin, God was making a greater and more wonderful sacrifice than ever man could make. {DA 469.1}

    Abraham's experience answered the question: "Wherewith shall I come before the Lord, and bow myself before the high God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old? Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?" Micah 6:6, 7. In the words of Abraham, "My son, God will provide Himself a lamb for a burnt offering," (Genesis 22:8), and in God's provision of a sacrifice instead of Isaac, it was declared that no man could make expiation for himself. The pagan system of sacrifice was wholly unacceptable to God. No father was to offer up his son or his daughter for a sin offering. The Son of God alone can bear the guilt of the world. {DA 469.2}

    Through his own suffering, Abraham was enabled to behold the Saviour's mission of sacrifice. But Israel would not understand that which was so unwelcome to their proud hearts. Christ's words concerning Abraham conveyed to His hearers no deep significance. The Pharisees saw in them only fresh ground for caviling. They retorted with a sneer, as if they would prove Jesus to be a madman, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?" {DA 469.3}

    With solemn dignity Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." {DA 469.4}

    Silence fell upon the vast assembly. The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as [470] His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, "whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity." Micah 5:2, margin. {DA 469.5}

    Again the priests and rabbis cried out against Jesus as a blasphemer. His claim to be one with God had before stirred them to take His life, and a few months later they plainly declared, "For a good work we stone Thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that Thou, being a man, makest Thyself God." John 10:33. Because He was, and avowed Himself to be, the Son of God, they were bent on destroying Him. Now many of the people, siding with the priests and rabbis, took up stones to cast at Him. "But Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." {DA 470.1} ...” - The Desire of Ages, p. 463.1 - 470.1 (Ellen G. White)
    Joseph Bates said in regards John 8:42:

    “... And Daniel, the prophet, teaches the same doctrine. "I saw in the night visions: and behold, one like the Son [19] of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, (described in the ninth verse) and they brought him near before him; and there was given him dominion and glory, and a kingdom, never to be destroyed." Dan. 7:13,14. Now we all admit this personage was Jesus Christ; for no being on earth or in heaven, has ever had the promise of an everlasting kingdom but him. And does not the Ancient of days give it to him? Would it not be absurd to say that he gave it to himself? How then can it be said (or proved) as it is by some, that the Son is the Ancient of days; - this passage, and the one in fifth Revelations, distinctly prove God and his Son to be two persons in heaven. Jesus says, "I proceeded forth and came from God: neither came I of myself, but he sent me." John 8:42. "I come forth from the Father, and am come into the world; again, I leave the world and go to the Father." (Does he remain in the same place?) "We are confident I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and present with the Lord." Paul. {1846 JB, BP1 18.2} ...” - [Bates’ Pamphlet #1] The Opening Heavens, p. 18.2 (Joseph Bates)
    The General Conference Bulletin, Volume 1, by W. W. Prescott, cites John 8:42, in connection with the new man, which required the sending of Jesus from Heaven:

    “... Now with these scriptures before us, we can see readily the teaching. Adam was the first man, and by yielding to sin, he received sin into human flesh, [9] and his flesh became sinful flesh. Christ was the second man, the second father of the human family. He did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. After humanity in Adam had admitted sin into the flesh, that became the old man, and the old man is humanity with sin working in it. That is to say, the old man is humanity under the control of the devil, and those who are in that condition are spoken of by the Saviour in John 8 as being of their father the devil. 42nd verse and onward: "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." {February 4, 1895 N/A, GCB 8.8}

    The old man is humanity with sin working in it; the old man is humanity under the control and direction of the devil. The new man is humanity with divinity in it, and above all and first of all, the new man is Christ Jesus, "which according to God was created in righteousness and true holiness." So we are instructed to put on the new man. Rom.13:14. {February 4, 1895 N/A, GCB 9.1} ...” - General Conference Bulletin, vol. 1 February 4, 1895, page 8.8 – 9.1
    A.T. Jones said in regards John 8:42, connecting with John 15:16, and the persons of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost/Spirit:

    “... "Christian Loyalty.—I" The Medical Missionary 16, 13 , p. 98.

    ALONZO T. JONES

    CHRISTIANITY in all that in itself it is, contemplates only a Person. It has its origin only in a Person. It comes to men only from a Person. It is given to men only by a Person. It is sustained and maintained in believers only by a Person. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.1}

    Christian loyalty, therefore, is and can be only loyalty to that Person. The loyalty of Christians can never be to anybody, and much less to any thing, other than just that one Person. And that Person is God—God, in Christ, through and by the Holy Spirit. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.2}

    God is a person—a living, intelligent, person: a person who thinks, who loves, who pities, who speaks, who is good, who is true, who is faithful, who enters into covenant with men, and who keeps covenant and mercy with men forever. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.3}

    And Christ Jesus is a person. In this personal Christ the personal God is manifested to the world and made personally known to believing men. Christ, was a person before he came into the world; yea, he was a person before ever the world was. He was of the person of God before ever the world was; and as of the person of God, he "was the Word," and he spoke the word that made the world and all the worlds. This same Person who was before the world, and who made the world and made man, came into the world and to man. He was a person in the world and with mankind. In this same person he left the world and ascended to heaven and to the personal God of heaven. In this same Person, and as this same Person glorified, he is at the right hand of the throne of the personal God in Heaven. And in this same Person, and as this same Person glorified, he is soon corning again in all the glory to glorify and take to himself and to the personal God of glory, all who are his by a personal faith upon their own personal choice. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.4}

    And the Holy Spirit is a person. This great truth is not recognized, indeed it is not believed, by more than a very few even of Christians. For everybody knows that almost invariably, with very, very few exceptions, the Holy Spirit is referred to and spoken of by Christians as "it." {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.5}

    But the word "it" never applies to a person. The word "it," in the very genius of our language, refers and applies only to things, never to persons; to things of inanimate substance, as a stone, a horse, a tree; or to things of concept, or experience, as space, height, breadth, peace, joy, grief, an impression, an influence. But the Holy Spirit is none of these: the Holy Spirit is not an influence; nor an impression, nor peace, nor joy, nor any thing. The Holy Spirit gives peace, and gives joy, assuages in grief, makes an impression, exerts an influence; but the Holy Spirit is none of these things, nor any other thing. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.6}

    No, eternally no! The Holy Spirit is a Person, eternally a divine Person. And he must be always recognized and spoken of as a Person, or he is not truly recognized or spoken of at all. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.7}

    See how plain and emphatic the Scriptures set forth this truth that the Holy Spirit is only a Person: and to aid the reader to see this truth, we will print in capital letters Italic, the words that designate the Holy Spirit:— {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.8}

    John 14:16, 17: "I will pray the Father, and he shall give, you another comforter that HE may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; WHOM the world cannot receive because it (the world) seeth HIM not, neither knoweth HIM; but ye know HIM; for HE dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.9}

    John 14:26: "The Comforter, the Holy Ghost, WHOM the Father will send in my name, HE shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.10}

    John 15:26: "When the Comforter is come, WHOM I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which (WHO, Revised Version and others) proceedeth from the Father, HE shall testify of me." {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.11}

    John 6:7-15: "If I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; And when HE is come, HE will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.) . . . I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye can not bear them now. Howbeit, when HE, the Spirit of Truth is come, HE will guide you into all truth; for HE shall not speak for HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE shall hear, that shall HE speak; and HE will shew you things to come. HE shall glorify me; for HE shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine; therefore, said I, that HE shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you." {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.12}

    Thus in the short space of a few lines the Lord Jesus speaks twenty-four times of the Holy Spirit as a person; and speaks of him in no other term than that which signifies in Greek, literally, "that person there." {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.13}

    Yet this is not peculiar to the New Testament. David said, "The Spirit of the Lord spake by me, and HIS word was in my tongue." [sic.] Sam. 23:2. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.14}

    Note that this latter word introduces another element of personality—"the Spirit of the Lord spake." This is also stated of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. Read it:— {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.15}

    "Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot." Acts 8:29. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.16}

    "The Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them." Acts 13:2. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.17}

    "As the Holy Ghost saith." Heb. 3:7. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.18}

    "Well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet." Acts 28:25. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.19}

    Thus the Scriptures make perfectly plain the truth that the Holy Spirit is, none other than a living, speaking, divine, and eternal person. Exactly as Christ is a person and as God is a person. Indeed Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as proceeding from the Father, just as he speaks of himself as proceeding from the Father. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.20}

    Of himself Jesus says: "I proceeded forth and came from God." John 8:4 Of the Holy Spirit, Jesus says that he "proceedeth from the Father." John 15:26. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.21}

    Therefore to be consistent those people who persist in speaking of the Holy Spirit as "it," should also speak of Christ as "it," and of God as "it." But as certainly as any one speaks of God as HE and of Christ as HE, he must also speak of the Holy Spirit as HE. {March 27, 1907 ATJ, MEDM 98.22} ...” - The Medical Missionary, vol. 16 March 27, 1907, page 98 par. 1-22
    A.T. Jones again said:

    “... 6. Jesus Christ is the Word of God. Words express thoughts. Jesus Christ, the Word of God, is therefore the expression of the thought of God. God's thought is manifested in "the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord." 2 Jesus Christ is the revelation of [567] that eternal purpose of the Eternal God. Jesus Christ is the brightness of His Father's glory, and the express image of His person. 3 From the Father He spoke all things into existence. 4 "By Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by Him, and for Him." 6 He upholds all things by the word of His power. By Him all things hold together. "It pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell." He is the One whom the Lord possessed "in the beginning of His way;" who was "set up from everlasting;" who "was by Him as one brought up with Him." He is the one "whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of Eternity." He is the only begotten of the Father, and is therefore in very substance of the nature of God; in Him "dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" He, therefore, by divine right of "inheritance," bears from the Father the name of "God." Thus Christ Jesus was indeed by divine and eternal right one of God -- "equal with God." {1901 ATJ, ECE 566.3} ...” - Ecclesiastical Empire, p. 566.3 (Alonzo T. Jones)
    A.T. Jones did not teach that John 8:42 KJB taught the coming into existence of anyone, but rather the sending forth from a person or place to another person or place. In other words, Jesus was sent from the bosom of the Father's embrace into the world. This is shown by multitudinous scriptures [KJB] as already demonstrated.

    What is amazing is that E.J. Waggoner also said of the Son:

    "... He is "from everlasting to everlasting." ..." - October 24, 1895 EJW, PTUK 673.3
    If we were to take both admissions by E.J. Waggoner and weight them together, then by his own definition, that if the Son came into existence in eternity past, then he could also cease to be in eternity future by some other definitional wrangling of the same manner. For as the Father gave, so He can take back, and why not then abuse the text which says that though the Father gave all things to Jesus, that Jesus will return all things to the Father? See how easy it is to do? How utterly absurd? This is what happens when redefining “from everlasting to everlasting” in relation to Deity.

    A.T. Jones said in stark contrast to E.J. Waggoner and others:

    “... Now a question: Was this gift a gift of only thirty-three years? In other words, having consisted in eternity until He came to this world, did Jesus then come to this world as He did for only thirty-three years and then go back as He was before, to consist in all respects as He was before throughout eternity to come? And thus His sacrifice be practically for only thirty-three years? Was this sacrifice a sacrifice of only thirty-three years? or was it an eternal sacrifice? When Jesus Christ left heaven, He emptied Himself and sank Himself in us--for how long a time was it? That is the question. And the answer is that it was for all eternity. The Father gave up His Son to us, and Christ gave up Himself to us for all eternity. Never again will He be in all respects as He was before. He gave His life to us. {February 27, 1895 ATJ, GCB 382.2} ...” - General Conference Bulletin, vol. 1 February 27, 1895, page 382 par. 2
    LeRoy Edwin Froom [L. E. Froom], in the Conditionalist Faith of our Fathers:

    “... It is in John 8, after Jesus had declared, "I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life" (John 8:12), that His claims were sharply challenged. Nevertheless He again affirmed that God in Heaven was His Father. And now He stressed the matter and relationship of death, life's opposite and redemption's alternative. And [201] such death would, He declared, result from rejection of Him. Solemnly He said: {1966 LEF, CFF1 200.9}

    "I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins [losing the true, eternal life]: whither I go, ye cannot come" (John 8:21). {1966 LEF, CFF1 201.1}

    "Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he [the sole Giver of life], ye shall die in your sins" (John 8:23,24). {1966 LEF, CFF1 201.2}

    Christ's declaration of His deity, and pronouncement of judgment, aroused their deepest indignation. After they had maliciously charged Him with being "born of fornication" (John 8:41) instead of "from above" as He claimed (John 8:23), and Christ had reaffirmed that He indeed "proceeded forth and came from God" (John 8:42), He next sternly charged them with being children of "your father the devil [the accuser and traducer]" (John 8:44). And He added with penetrating significance: {1966 LEF, CFF1 201.3}

    "He was a murderer [for death came through him] from the beginning [of the human race], and abode not in the truth . . . . When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it" (John 8:44). {1966 LEF, CFF1 201.4}

    Christ thus harked back to the original lie in Eden -- "Ye shall not surely die" (Genesis 3:4) -- with all its train of unutterable woe. Then follows Christ's tremendous declaration, "If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death" (John 8:51). That is, he shall not be visited with the forever-death, eternal death, the "second death," from which there is no resurrection. {1966 LEF, CFF1 201.5}

    Jesus' final affirmation was, "Before Abraham was [came into existence, or was born], I am" (John 8:58). It was following this incredible utterance that they took up stones to cast at Him. {1966 LEF, CFF1 201.6} ...” - The Conditionalist Faith of Our Fathers, vol. 1, p. 201.5 (LeRoy E. Froom)
    L.E. Froom was in exact agreement with sister White on this text and its explanation, and in harmony with others such as Joseph Bates, A.T. Jones and more. The text does not teach that the Son of the Father came into existence in eternity, but was sent from the Father in Heaven with the greatest message of grace and love, and to represent the Father on earth as a witness unto all the universe of God.​
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

    +1,449
    SDA
    Married
    That has to be some sort of record for the longest post ever....
     
  3. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +274
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Much more to come on these things, and other subjects, which have absolutely caused untold havoc in the Seventh-day Adventist movement, robbery of God's means away from the real work in the field, and strife and discord [Proverbs 6:19 KJB] among members, families, friends and other christians, and the lifting up of selfish agendas, ideas and persons [Romans 14 KJB]; and more to come on other things like "the daily" that the body may be united on the truth of the scripture instead of divided by misunderstandings of what people thought someone said, Revelation 9 [5th, 6th and 7th trumpets are not Muhammad/Islam, nor Ottoman Empire, nor a third rise of it, which I will demonstrate from the bible [KJB] and SOP/TOJ itself, and the misunderstanding of the GC 1888/1911 and subsequent compilations thereof], and other materials as time allows.

    It is High time to cast off the works of darkness.

    I had a much much longer one on Islam to which I hope will soon be back up, so that I may add to it, with the several thousand pages of materials I have on the subject.

    I pray you will brother, as all, consider the evidences provided. Read carefully and prayerfully.
     
Loading...