Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[precepts]

Nope. You missed another one. I am not Catholic my friend.

The answer is in fact the Word of God!

Fool yourself. I know your fruits.

 

[Jezmeyah]

You're another one that's not naive.

Is that a compliment, or a criticism?

What is the reason why I say there's no rapture?

I have to say that if you don't know then how am I to know?

All these long winded responses about nothingness is just beating around the bush.

Responses are not always long. But, any post might still be about nothing to someone at sometime. And, short posts can be beating around the bush too.
The term has to do with communicating plainly so that there isn't any wondering about what's being said. You're post has me wondering, so congratulations, you have just become a person who beats around the bush instead of hitting the nail on the head.

 

[John Hyperspace]

And we will have to be in disagreement as I for one can find the Rapture all through the Bible just as I can the Trinity and the 2nd Coming of Christ.

I have no doubt you can "see" your doctrine into the scripture; just as the man who believes "children will become butterflies and hide under the earth" can also "see" his belief into the scripture. If I ask you "What second coming?" you will cite passages that talking clearly about a return of Christ in no uncertain terms. If I ask "What Trinity?" you will cite verses clearly talking about Father, Son and Spirit.

But when I ask "What rapture?" You can only point at passages about "a door opened in heaven" or "I will guard you from the hour" which clearly teach an open door, and a guarding; but teach nothing whatsoever about a "coming before the coming" or a "removal of people from the earth to avoid tribulation"

Your rapture doctrine is no different that the children butterflies hiding under the earth doctrine. Neither are taught in scripture and can only be "read into" scripture. In other words, it doesn't come out of the scripture and into your mind; it comes out of your mind and into the scripture. This is backwards.

 

[keras]

People who believe in a rapture to heaven have been fooled by false teaching, just as Jesus said: Matthew 24:11, would happen and Paul says in 2 Timothy 4:3-4, that people will listen to those bad teachers and be deceived by them.
Sadly, millions have been deluded into thinking that just belief in God is enough and they need do nothing else in order to be taken directly to heaven. Jeremiah 14:13-14

But when the fiery trial comes, as 1 Peter 4:12 an 2 Peter 3:7, tells us it will, those who expected to be gone, will be shocked and terrified as the worldwide disaster of that Day, Luke 21:35, strikes down the ungodly, Hebrews 10:27, Romans 1:18, and all who fail to stand firm in their faith. Matthew 24:10
Many prophesies tell how the Lord will settle His people into all of the Holy Land, where they will at last be the people He always intended. These people will prepare the world for the Millennium Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:18-21

Then, after all that is prophesied to happen in the last days has taken place, the Lord will Return and bring all His righteous people to Jerusalem, all those who refused the mark of the beast and those from their place of safety. Revelation 12:14 The martyred saints will be resurrected at this time, Revelation 20:4, but the rest of the dead await the Great White Throne judgement at the end of the Millennium.

 

[miamited]

You are not naive. What was the reason why I said there's no rapture?

Hi precepts,

You may think I'm not naive, but...

I don't generally go around trying to read between the lines on these threads. I expect that when people ask questions that whatever the question is, is what they're asking. I'm not generally in the habit of reading questions and then playing the, "Oh, I wonder what they're really trying to do?" Or, "I wonder if they really want an answer to their question." I'm in the middle of watching 'Suits' on Amazon and that's what they do. Every word spoken by anyone is cut and divided and weighed and measured to try and determine what the 'real' issue is. Personally, I think it's a lousy way to live life. They are never able to trust anyone concerning their motives. And you know what? There's not a one of the characters that has any real friends.

That may work for you, but not me. So, you asked a question and I answered. If you want to put in writing what your ulterior motive is and lay if out for me, then I'll understand. The only guessing game I've ever enjoyed to any degree was 20 questions.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Psalm3704]

People who believe in a rapture to heaven have been fooled by false teaching,

Promoting nonsense only makes you look foolish.

The church of the firstborn is seen in heaven before God and Jesus and the company of angels: Hebrews 12:22-24.

​

This happens just before God shakes heaven and earth: Hebrews 12:26, with fire: Hebrews 12:29.

Clearly the church is raptured and taken to heaven before God's judgement.

Hebrews 12:22-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven.” 27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.​

.

 

[Douggg]

How many resurrections do you know of?

I know of three. But I don't know what you are calling the 2nd resurrection. Can't you just give a straight answer?

 

[Straightshot]

"Aren't true Christian's God's own people?"


As individuals, yes .... of both Jew and Gentile

On the other hand the Lord has a national people called Israel

This truth is displayed throughout the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation

.... and recorded history agrees

A remnant has returned to the land today just as the prophets tell .... for a reason

All the Lord's doing .... wait and see

He is not finished with His ethnic nation of Israel as some attempt to rebuke

Replacement theology has crept into the professing "church" in a number of ways

Don't forget this [Genesis 12:1-3] .... nothing has changed [Revelation 5:5; 7:1-8]

There are so many scriptures that present this truth and yet the replacement theologist either ignores or makes metaphorical mush in order to steal Israel's position for their own proprieties

.... and yes there is a call coming from the Lord to immortalize His true ecclesia of both a few of Israel and mostly Gentiles of the nations

.... before He slams the earth with His unprecedented unrelenting judgments of the tribulation for the purpose of punishing a world of intransigence and unbelief [Psalms 2; Revelation 6:12-17]

Those who teach against this truth will enter the tribulation .... no doubt [Revelation 3:15-19]

 

[Major1]

I have no doubt you can "see" your doctrine into the scripture; just as the man who believes "children will become butterflies and hide under the earth" can also "see" his belief into the scripture. If I ask you "What second coming?" you will cite passages that talking clearly about a return of Christ in no uncertain terms. If I ask "What Trinity?" you will cite verses clearly talking about Father, Son and Spirit.

But when I ask "What rapture?" You can only point at passages about "a door opened in heaven" or "I will guard you from the hour" which clearly teach an open door, and a guarding; but teach nothing whatsoever about a "coming before the coming" or a "removal of people from the earth to avoid tribulation"

Your rapture doctrine is no different that the children butterflies hiding under the earth doctrine. Neither are taught in scripture and can only be "read into" scripture. In other words, it doesn't come out of the scripture and into your mind; it comes out of your mind and into the scripture. This is backwards.

Bless your heart John. Please know that "I" do not have a Rapture. I do however accept what is show to me in the Bible. You see, many years ago when I was saved and began to read the Bible I approached it with an open mind believing that what was in the Bible was what God wanted me to know and He was a lot smarter than I was.

I would encourage you to consider this teaching that helped me understand the difficult things of the Scriptures.

In Isaiah 28:10, we learn from the Scriptures by building.....
"precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little.”

It's as if each Scripture is a Witness to the soon coming Rapture! We know from 2 Corinthians 13:1 that......
“By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established".

In fact, there are actually over 100 Bible Scriptures, or Witnesses, of Rapture verses.... They are confirmation for those with eyes to see! May I say to you and everyone else, I pray that you will be comforted and reassured that soon the Bridegroom will be returning for His Bride! Hallelujah!

Now John, Let me ask you this....

What do you believe what happened to Enoch?
What do you believe happened to Elijah?

 

[Major1]

Fool yourself. I know your fruits.

No you do not! You just missed another one my friend.

You are irritated and somewhat angry that you are convicted by the Holy Spirt by someone who would challenge your position openly.

So what do you do then.......as always the result is to go for the personal.......
"I know your fruits".

Now for a little phycology. The only reason you posted your theories and beliefs was so that someone WOULD in fact challenge you and show you your error.

NO.....you will not admit that, but that is how the mind works when we are not totally convinced about something. Look it up my friend on your computer. I went to school to learn what you can find out in about 5 minutes.

 

[precepts]

Is that a compliment, or a criticism?
I have to say that if you don't know then how am I to know?
Responses are not always long. But, any post might still be about nothing to someone at sometime. And, short posts can be beating around the bush too.
The term has to do with communicating plainly so that there isn't any wondering about what's being said. You're post has me wondering, so congratulations, you have just become a person who beats around the bush instead of hitting the nail on the head.

Once again a post about pettiness and not addressing the issue, beating around the bush. The truth to you is like holy water to a vampire.

precepts said:

What is the reason why I say there's no rapture?​

 

[precepts]

Hi precepts,

You may think I'm not naive, but...

I don't generally go around trying to read between the lines on these threads. I expect that when people ask questions that whatever the question is, is what they're asking. I'm not generally in the habit of reading questions and then playing the, "Oh, I wonder what they're really trying to do?" Or, "I wonder if they really want an answer to their question." I'm in the middle of watching 'Suits' on Amazon and that's what they do. Every word spoken by anyone is cut and divided and weighed and measured to try and determine what the 'real' issue is. Personally, I think it's a lousy way to live life. They are never able to trust anyone concerning their motives. And you know what? There's not a one of the characters that has any real friends.

That may work for you, but not me. So, you asked a question and I answered. If you want to put in writing what your ulterior motive is and lay if out for me, then I'll understand. The only guessing game I've ever enjoyed to any degree was 20 questions.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

Anything but the truth to avoid the meat of the question, it's like holy water.

 

[precepts]

I know of three. But I don't know what you are calling the 2nd resurrection. Can't you just give a straight answer?

No, not if you can't.

 

[precepts]

No you do not! You just missed another one my friend.

You are irritated and somewhat angry that you are convicted by the Holy Spirt by someone who would challenge your position openly.

So what do you do then.......as always the result is to go for the personal.......
"I know your fruits".

Now for a little phycology. The only reason you posted your theories and beliefs was so that someone WOULD in fact challenge you and show you your error.

NO.....you will not admit that, but that is how the mind works when we are not totally convinced about something. Look it up my friend on your computer. I went to school to learn what you can find out in about 5 minutes.

Anything but the truth, what is the reason why I said there's no rapture if you're so serious about challenging the facts you called "theories and beliefs," as if you don't know fact from fiction?

Game over. I know your fruits.

 

[miamited]

Hi precepts,

Wow! I'm simply amazed at some of your responses to me. This last one:

Anything but the truth to avoid the meat of the question, it's like holy water.

What in the world are you saying? Are you saying that I'm not being honest with you when I say that I don't generally read the posts on this site looking for hidden meanings or agendas? Since I obviously don't understand what yours is, perhaps we would all be better served if you'd just write what the 'meat' of the question is that you think I'm avoiding.

You write that I'm not naive and surely must understand some alternative understanding of your post that I first responded to. Well, perhaps you're wrong about me. After all, you really don't know me. You've merely read some posts that I have made on this site over the years and hopefully by now you do understand that my faith is strong and my understanding of the things of God are fairly well grounded and that I am an absolute believer in the truth and inerrency of the Scriptures. But, I'm not sure you're qualified, with that limited knowledge of me, to know whether I am or am not naive.

On the other hand, I find you trying to work out a bit of deception. You claim I'm not naive, but when I respond that I don't generally read between the lines when following these threads and don't understand what you're getting at, rather than just saying what it is that you're getting at, you then claim I'm being dishonest in my responses. However, you still won't just put out there what this seemingly hidden message is all about.

What's your agenda here?

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[precepts]

Hi precepts,

Wow! I'm simply amazed at some of your responses to me. This last one:


What in the world are you saying? Are you saying that I'm not being honest with you when I say that I don't generally read the posts on this site looking for hidden meanings or agendas? Since I obviously don't understand what yours is, perhaps we would all be better served if you'd just write what the 'meat' of the question is that you think I'm avoiding.

You write that I'm not naive and surely must understand some alternative understanding of your post that I first responded to. Well, perhaps you're wrong about me. After all, you really don't know me. You've merely read some posts that I have made on this site over the years and hopefully by now you do understand that my faith is strong and my understanding of the things of God are fairly well grounded and that I am an absolute believer in the truth and inerrency of the Scriptures. But, I'm not sure you're qualified, with that limited knowledge of me, to know whether I am or am not naive.

On the other hand, I find you trying to work out a bit of deception. You claim I'm not naive, but when I respond that I don't generally read between the lines when following these threads and don't understand what you're getting at, rather than just saying what it is that you're getting at, you then claim I'm being dishonest in my responses. However, you still won't just put out there what this seemingly hidden message is all about.

What's your agenda here?

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

And what is yours? You obviously can't answer my question because you can't face the facts.

 

[miamited]

And what is yours? You obviously can't answer my question because you can't face the facts.

View attachment 186385

Hi precepts,

What is my what? My agenda? Just to answer your question that you put up in the OP. There I answered that question and the question you put up in the OP. What is up with you? Is this your idea of a discussion? Someone asks you a question in a post and you, rather than just answering the question, come back asking the same question of the poster. What in the world do you mean by claiming that I can't face the truth? I've answered all your questions. I've questioned you about some apparently hidden agenda that you have, based on your responses to me, and all you can do is tell me that I can't face the truth. Really?

You may be right. I may not be naive. Or at least as naive as such a thing can be in its strongest form, but...

From the responses I've seen from you so far, it's you that seems to have some inability to face the truth. You can't even answer simple questions put to you and that may well be because you don't have any answers. It may well be that since you don't have such answers you attempt to parry and sidestep to try to ignore answering and detract from the questions by merely playing this simple word game with those asking the questions.

Look! The answer to your OP is that the idea of what we call the 'rapture' is written about for us to understand in the 14th chapter of the Revelation. Now, do with that what you will, but if your continued responses are just going to be this little game you're playing, please refrain from responding to any of my posts. If, on the other hand, you'd like to seriously discuss and investigate myj answer to your OP, then feel free to write back a response to me.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[LastSeven]

So then who are they, the Saints. When John asks who they are, he is told in Rev. 7:14.......
“These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb”.

So once again, you're making a statement based on an assumption. The assumption being that "the great tribulation" is the seven year period at the end of time.

Where exactly in scripture is this great tribulation defined as being exactly that?

See if you can't prove that the tribulation is what you believe it is, then you also can't prove who these saints are.

 

[LastSeven]

If one is "out of" the tribulation, one is not in it

But if you "came out of" the tribulation then that means you were in it.

 

[LastSeven]

That's okay. Have a nice day.
I really do not like debating Eschatology with others.

Classic. Have no answer. Walk away.