Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[keras]

LOL.........do you think that you are the only one to study and write articles on the day of God's wrath. Honestly now, do you really believe writing stuff that is false will make it become true????
It saddens me to see anyone be so wrong in their understanding because you really seem to be a sincere person.

Accusations like this are made because the truth of what the prophets actually wrote conflicts with your belief of a rapture to heaven.
So your unsubstantiated rant against my proofs of your error are a discredit to you. I pointed out the truth of how 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 must refer to after the Millennium. Death is no more then, but people will still die during the Mill. Isaiah 65:20

You are convinced that the event we are talking about IS NOT a Rapture before the Tribulation.
Correct?

Yes, it is clear that the Lord will protect His own people, not remove them.
The proof, that you have ignored in my earlier post, is how the Lord's holy people are present in Israel, when the Anti-Christ conquers them. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7
The fact that you cannot prove a rapture to heaven from scripture, should surely give rise to doubt as to the truth of that idea, especially when those that do believe a rapture cannot agree as to when it could happen.

 

[LastSeven]

Sheol is a place located into the lower parts of the Earth, not in Heaven.

Before that Jesus have ascended to Heaven all the spirit/souls of dead people good or bad since Adam where in sheol into the lower parts of the Earth, ,but that it is true that there was a gulf separating the good from the bad.

Since Jesus have ascended to Heaven the souls of those who die in Christ goes to Heaven.On arrival in Heaven the souls of the dead believers are placed by God in a state of rest (as in sleep) until the resurrection...thus the wording -they sleep in Christ-.

Rib, none of this is scriptural. First of all, you use soul and spirit with a slash which tells me that you don't understand the difference, so let me tell you. A soul is a living creature (we are souls and so are animals) and spirit is life, which returns to God when you die. The spirit (life) is also what Jesus gave up when he died.

And Sheol is not a physical place but a state of being, more specifically the state of being dead. And we say that someone "goes" to Sheol in the same way we say one "goes" to sleep. (Note that in job 14:13 Job asked good to put him in Sheol)

 

[Riberra]

Rib, none of this is scriptural. First of all, you use soul and spirit with a slash which tells me that you don't understand the difference, so let me tell you. A soul is a living creature (we are souls and so are animals) and spirit is life, which returns to good when you for. The spirit (life) is also what Jesus gave up when he died.

Humans are made of a physical flesh and blood body and a soul inside that physical body.
And Adam became a LIVING SOUL when God give him the spirit of life ..

The SOUL [of believers in Christ] is the part that will be resurrected into a new glorified physical body...

Revelation 6:9
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

And Sheol is not a physical place but a state of being, more specifically the state of being dead. And we say that some one "goes" to Sheol in the same way we say one "goes" to sleep.

Ephesians 4:8-9...........
"Therefore He says: When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”
Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? "

(Note that in job 14:13 Job asked good to put him in Sheol)

In KJV Job 14:13 -say in the grave not in sheol.
Job 14:13
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

 

[Psalm3704]

You're making a fool of yourself. Your own quote says "many bodies". I highlighted it for you in blue.

The same can be said about you. You were talking about those resurrected "appearing to many people" in prior posts as well as this one. I highlighted it for you in red and underlined.

went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

1. It says they "appeared to many people", which means they stayed on earth after they came to life.

It would be nice if you actually had some evidence for your outrageous claims.

I've already did. You're just blind and don't see it.

And where's your evidence?

I see you're still avoiding the question. Still no proof of any kind as we all can see. Yeah we figured you out, just blab all the nonsense theory you can muster up so you can avoid the question and don't have to answer it.

Must be hard to prove with scripture those people resurrected in Matthew 27:50-53 walked the earth after they came back to life.

I'm still waiting. I'll bet you a can of Alpo you'll just give me more self indulged theories, and no evidence of any kind directly the bible. Am I right?










.

 

[Psalm3704]

I've already explained to you why it makes sense that they stayed on earth, but you still haven't given me a single reason to believe they went to heaven.

What makes sense to you doesn't constitute the norm.

You think when people get resurrected, they normally come back to life to live on earth. You have yet to prove this with real evidence. Evidence is something that comes out of the bible, not out of your imagination. There's a difference!

Same goes with all your other arguments you so call evidence. They're just what you think it suppose to mean, not what's written in the bible.

No, I said because they appeared to many it sounds like earth. And there's nothing that makes it sound like heaven.

Here we go again with the "appeared to many." More evidence you were the one who's blind.

And where's your evidence the bible meant earth when it said "appeared to many?

Where's your proof that heaven is an empty place?

"If it sounds good or looks like a rat" is not evidence.

If it smells like a rat and it looks like a rat, it's probably a rat.

Faulty logic. You look like a dog. Are you a dog?

lol. Is that supposed to prove they went to heaven? The fact that there are many angels?

No. it proves you don't even realized there are many angels in heaven.

You'd better watch your tone. I don't like to report posts but if you don't settle down I might have to.

Oh I'm scared. Report all you want but please don't hit me.

I never said that. I said if they went to heaven they would first have to be transformed, and since it doesn't say they were transformed they were probably not transformed.

Where does it say Jesus was transformed when He went to heaven?

Where does it say Enoch and Elijah was transformed when God took them?

Got any bible verse? I don't think so.

I find it fascinating how your mind works. Even though the Bible clearly says that they went into the holy city after the resurrection (which everybody knows is Jerusalem)

What do you do with the heavenly Jerusalem mentioned in Hebrews 12:22 and Revelation 21, just throw those scriptures out the window because they don't fit your imagination?

you don't believe that to be definitive enough to say they stayed on earth, but you seem to think it definitively says they went to heaven. It's like some kind of mental detour through wonderland.

I've already proved they went to heaven. You're just too blind to see it. And you're still avoiding the question. Still no evidence!

Common sense and logic are not enough to prove my point, but you need absolutely nothing to prove your point? You keep asking me to prove they stayed on earth, but you haven't provided any evidence at all that they went to heaven.

I've already proved they went to heaven. You're just too blind to see it. And you're still avoiding the question. Still no evidence!

It is an assumption on my part, that's true. But at least it's a reasonable assumption based on clues and common sense, unlike yours which is based on nothing.

Ludicrous logic. People don't and didn't live on earth after getting resurrected. The only exception was Lazarus....but there was a reason which but I'm sure you don't know either.








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[Psalm3704]

"for my ways are not your ways"
You can't just use that passage as proof for everything that has no scriptural support.

It's amazing you accused me of writing this when here you're quoting and writing to the other guy.

Must be short on the memory.









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[LastSeven]

What makes sense to you doesn't constitute the norm.

You think when people get resurrected, they normally come back to life to live on earth. You have yet to prove this with real evidence. Evidence is something that comes out of the bible, not out of your imagination. There's a difference!

Same goes with all your other arguments you so call evidence. They're just what you think it suppose to mean, not what's written in the bible.





Here we go again with the "appeared to many." More evidence you were the one who's blind.

And where's your evidence the bible meant earth when it said "appeared to many?

Where's your proof that heaven is an empty place?

"If it sounds good or looks like a rat" is not evidence.




Faulty logic. You look like a dog. Are you a dog?




No. it proves you don't even realized there are many angels in heaven.





Oh I'm scared. Report all you want but please don't hit me.





Where does it say Jesus was transformed when He went to heaven?

Where does it say Enoch and Elijah was transformed when God took them?

Got any bible verse? I don't think so.





What do you do with the heavenly Jerusalem mentioned in Hebrews 12:22 and Revelation 21, just throw those scriptures out the window because they don't fit your imagination?




I've already proved they went to heaven. You're just too blind to see it. And you're still avoiding the question. Still no evidence!







I've already proved they went to heaven. You're just too blind to see it. And you're still avoiding the question. Still no evidence!





Ludicrous logic. People don't and didn't live on earth after getting resurrected. The only exception was Lazarus....but there was a reason which but I'm sure you don't know either.


.

Am I talking to a child? How old are you?

 

[LastSeven]

Humans are made of a physical flesh and blood body and a soul inside that physical body.
And Adam became a LIVING SOUL when God give him the spirit of life ..

Look, you said it yourself. Adam became a living soul. How can he have a soul if he is a soul?

The SOUL [of believers in Christ] is the part that will be resurrected into a new glorified physical body...

Where does it say that? Your examples only show that John saw souls in heaven. It doesn't say that the soul is resurrected.

In KJV Job 14:13 -say in the grave not in sheol.
Job 14:13
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

The ASV version uses the word Sheol.

The urban dictionary describes sheol as "not a place" and draws the parallel between it and the way king Solomon describes death.

Urban Dictionary: sheol

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Major1]

Accusations like this are made because the truth of what the prophets actually wrote conflicts with your belief of a rapture to heaven.
So your unsubstantiated rant against my proofs of your error are a discredit to you. I pointed out the truth of how 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 must refer to after the Millennium. Death is no more then, but people will still die during the Mill. Isaiah 65:20

Yes, it is clear that the Lord will protect His own people, not remove them.
The proof, that you have ignored in my earlier post, is how the Lord's holy people are present in Israel, when the Anti-Christ conquers them. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7
The fact that you cannot prove a rapture to heaven from scripture, should surely give rise to doubt as to the truth of that idea, especially when those that do believe a rapture cannot agree as to when it could happen.

I have not ignored you at all. I just do not agree with you.

Your responses are not Biblical IMO but instead are products of your own thinking about what you believe not what the Bible actually teaches us.

The fact is I do not have to prove anything to you or anyone else my dear friend. All that I am required to do is BELIEVE!
You are invited to and are free to disagree with anything I say and the same applies to me.

 

[Major1]

Humans are made of a physical flesh and blood body and a soul inside that physical body.
And Adam became a LIVING SOUL when God give him the spirit of life ..

The SOUL [of believers in Christ] is the part that will be resurrected into a new glorified physical body...

Revelation 6:9
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.



Ephesians 4:8-9...........
"Therefore He says: When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”
Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? "


In KJV Job 14:13 -say in the grave not in sheol.
Job 14:13
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Excellent exegesis! I agree with you.

 

[Major1]

It's amazing you accused me of writing this when here you're quoting and writing to the other guy.

Must be short on the memory.









.

Its not that my brother. It is just that it is hard to keep a story straight when they are making it up as they go.

YOU on the other hand have the Word of God which never changes!

 

[Major1]

Read John 5 as to how only the Son was given life/in Himself.

Also, the NT tells how only He has put on immortality and how the /OT saints/ would not be made perfect without us.

Do you agree that the Old Test. saints souls/spirits could not go to heaven but had to stay in Paradise and wait because Jesus had not yet died and risen from the dead.

 

[LastSeven]

Do you agree that the Old Test. saints souls/spirits could not go to heaven but had to stay in Paradise and wait because Jesus had not yet died and risen from the dead.

Speaking of making things up....

 

[LastSeven]

Its not that my brother. It is just that it is hard to keep a story straight when they are making it up as they go.

YOU on the other hand have the Word of God which never changes!

You're the one who screwed up the quote that started this whole argument. Way to take responsibility.

 

[Riberra]

Look, you said it yourself. Adam became a living soul. How can he have a soul if he is a soul?

A physical body and soul

Soul
Strong's Greek: 5590. ψυχή (psuché) -- breath, the soul
Strong's Concordance
psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Short Definition: the soul, life, self
Definition: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

Where does it say that? Your examples only show that John saw souls in heaven.

Proof that the souls of the believers goes to heaven ,when a believer die and his body is in the grave.

It doesn't say that the soul is resurrected.

Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The ASV version uses the word Sheol.

The urban dictionary describes sheol as "not a place" and draws the parallel between it and the way king Solomon describes death.

Urban Dictionary: sheol

Strong's Hebrew: 7585. שְׁאוֹל (sheol) -- underworld (place to which people descend at death)
sheol: underworld (place to which people descend at death)
Original Word: שְׁאוֹל
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: sheol
Phonetic Spelling: (sheh-ole')
Short Definition: Sheol

Isaiah 14:9

 

[LastSeven]

A physical body and soul

Soul
Strong's Greek: 5590. ψυχή (psuché) -- breath, the soul
Strong's Concordance
psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Short Definition: the soul, life, self
Definition: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.


Proof that the souls of the believers goes to heaven ,when a believer die and his body is in the grave.

Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Strong's Hebrew: 7585. שְׁאוֹל (sheol) -- underworld (place to which people descend at death)
sheol: underworld (place to which people descend at death)
Original Word: שְׁאוֹל
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: sheol
Phonetic Spelling: (sheh-ole')
Short Definition: Sheol

Isaiah 14:9

As you said, this is not the thread for this debate, so I won't go too deeply into it, but I will say this.

The meaning of this word has changed over time, which is why so many dictionaries define it as an actual place, but even then the definition closely resembles the way King Solomon described the state of death.

The Hebrew dictionary even considers it a synonym for both hell and abaddon, which is interesting because abaddon is described as an angel. The angel of death perhaps?

In any case, I'm confident that our modern understandings of hell / hades / sheol is not consistent with the original meaning.

 

[Riberra]

As you said, this is not the thread for this debate, so I won't go too deeply into it, but I will say this.

The meaning of this word has changed over time, which is why so many dictionaries define it as an actual place, but even then the definition closely resembles the way King Solomon described the state of death.

The Hebrew dictionary even considers it a synonym for both hell and abaddon, which is interesting because abaddon is described as an angel. The angel of death perhaps?

The angel of death is not Abaddon...
Abaddon is the Angel of the Bottomless Pit
Revelation 9:11...Abaddon is actually locked into the Bottomless Pit until...
see
Revelation 9.

In any case, I'm confident that our modern understandings of hell / hades / sheol is not consistent with the original meaning.

Hell is the English transliteration of the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades.

 

[LastSeven]

The angel of death is not Abaddon...
Abaddon is the Angel of the Bottomless Pit
Revelation 9:11...Abaddon is actually locked into the Bottomless Pit until...
see
Revelation 9.
.

Sure, I've read the book. [emoji6]. But if abaddon is a synonym for Sheol, doesn't that make you wonder if we're missing something here?